List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

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caesar88

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I actually thought we were arguably a better side in 2017 (after 0-6) than we were in 2016. Not sure what happened in the Geelong semi-final, but just watch that Essendon elimination final. It was champagne football.
Respectfully disagree. We were very lucky to make finals in 2017, as opposed to being the dominant team for all of 2016 and then being robbed of a flag.

Richmond capitulated after being over six goals up against us. Blowing a lead like that says more about them than it did about us. Essendon capitulated a 3-goal lead away in the dying minutes. Again, that says more about them than it did about us. We just scraped over the line against an inaccurate Adelaide free, and partly due to a dubious 50m against Eddie Betts that led to a goal for us. All three of those matches could've gone very differently with just a few pieces of play, and we wouldn't have made the finals at all.

Then we came up against the statistically-worst finals club of the last fifteen years in an elimination final and it went to script.

The semi-final against Geelong was just an appropriate awakening to any team that is lucky enough to manage to scrape into finals and then have a cruise-control final first-up.
 

Chaisa

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Yeah I'd be going hard for Sier. Feels like he could be another JPK, and I thought that before he was on the outer.
 

Chaisa

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Respectfully disagree. We were very lucky to make finals in 2017, as opposed to being the dominant team for all of 2016 and then being robbed of a flag.

Richmond capitulated after being over six goals up against us. Blowing a lead like that says more about them than it did about us. Essendon capitulated a 3-goal lead away in the dying minutes. Again, that says more about them than it did about us. We just scraped over the line against an inaccurate Adelaide free, and partly due to a dubious 50m against Eddie Betts that led to a goal for us. All three of those matches could've gone very differently with just a few pieces of play, and we wouldn't have made the finals at all.

Then we came up against the statistically-worst finals club of the last fifteen years in an elimination final and it went to script.

The semi-final against Geelong was just an appropriate awakening to any team that is lucky enough to manage to scrape into finals and then have a cruise-control final first-up.
Harsh to say we were lucky to make the finals, given we lost close matches too. The Geelong game was kind of running out of steam, partially over-rating ourselves. You don't go 14-2 by being lucky.
 

SSwans2011

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Respectfully disagree. We were very lucky to make finals in 2017, as opposed to being the dominant team for all of 2016 and then being robbed of a flag.

Richmond capitulated after being over six goals up against us. Blowing a lead like that says more about them than it did about us. Essendon capitulated a 3-goal lead away in the dying minutes. Again, that says more about them than it did about us. We just scraped over the line against an inaccurate Adelaide free, and partly due to a dubious 50m against Eddie Betts that led to a goal for us. All three of those matches could've gone very differently with just a few pieces of play, and we wouldn't have made the finals at all.

Then we came up against the statistically-worst finals club of the last fifteen years in an elimination final and it went to script.

The semi-final against Geelong was just an appropriate awakening to any team that is lucky enough to manage to scrape into finals and then have a cruise-control final first-up.
Bit harsh to reference the Betts 50m, which was legitimately there IMO (went over the mark before umpire blew his whistle, as slow as the ump was), without acknowledging the fact that we'd been screwed over by home town umpiring all night. The umpires kept plucking free kicks from nowhere to get the Crows back in the match when we were belting them. The free kick count was 28-14.

I thought the wins against Essendon and Richmond were the sign of a great team, being able to scrape over the line when all looked lost. It's what Hawthorn did when they were the best team in the competition, and what made them so great.

In comparison in 2016 we were losing our close matches, which suggested to me that as good as we were, we weren't quite a great side. I also think that 2016 was generally a really weak year. Us and GWS were the only real standout sides over the course of the year, and we both had pretty lean patches. That season being so weak (and umpire assistance) is the only reason the Bulldogs made the Grand Final (and finals) in the first place.
 

caesar88

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Bit harsh to reference the Betts 50m, which was legitimately there IMO (went over the mark before umpire blew his whistle, as slow as the ump was), without acknowledging the fact that we'd been screwed over by home town umpiring all night. The umpires kept plucking free kicks from nowhere to get the Crows back in the match when we were belting them. The free kick count was 28-14.

I thought the wins against Essendon and Richmond were the sign of a great team, being able to scrape over the line when all looked lost. It's what Hawthorn did when they were the best team in the competition, and what made them so great.

In comparison in 2016 we were losing our close matches, which suggested to me that as good as we were, we weren't quite a great side. I also think that 2016 was generally a really weak year. Us and GWS were the only real standout sides over the course of the year, and we both had pretty lean patches. That season being so weak (and umpire assistance) is the only reason the Bulldogs made the Grand Final (and finals) in the first place.
It wasn't a knock on us.

I thought it was bloody amazing what we did in 17, that we even kept ourselves in the fight for finals after such a debacle start to the season. But that fight and spirit only carried us so far. Luck did the rest IMO. No shame in that, we're still the only team to make finals from an 0-6 start!

Unlike 2016 when we were never in doubt because we were so good from round 1 (80 point win) to round 23 (113 point win). All that was in between was awesome to watch, bringing in young kids while our experienced players were all at the peak of their powers. Then two stellar finals performances sandwiched between a game against our bogey team who played dirty, and a game where we were up against 25.

That is a stellar year no matter how you measure it.
 

SSwans2011

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It wasn't a knock on us.

I thought it was bloody amazing what we did in 17, that we even kept ourselves in the fight for finals after such a debacle start to the season. But that fight and spirit only carried us so far. Luck did the rest IMO. No shame in that, we're still the only team to make finals from an 0-6 start!

Unlike 2016 when we were never in doubt because we were so good from round 1 (80 point win) to round 23 (113 point win). All that was in between was awesome to watch, bringing in young kids while our experienced players were all at the peak of their powers. Then two stellar finals performances sandwiched between a game against our bogey team who played dirty, and a game where we were up against 25.

That is a stellar year no matter how you measure it.
Agreed, but belting bad sides and dropping close matches to stronger sides isn't necessarily the sign of a great side. We were a great side, don't get me wrong, but I don't think the floggings mean as much as you're implying. We had a few in 2017 anyway.

It's also worth noting just like it was only 1-2 games which stopped us from achieving greatness in 2016, it was arguably the same deal in 2017. We were legitimately almost favourites to win the flag going into that semi final in 2017, and probably just about would have been had we won it. That's really saying something given we finished 6th IMO.

Both were great seasons, but IMHO over that run of 14-2 in 2017, we were even better than we were in 2016. Our best patch was definitely 2014 anyway and it's almost criminal that we kept s**tting the bed against Hawthorn, because I genuinely believe that would have been viewed to one of the more dominant flag wins of the century if we pulled it off.
 

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caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
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Agreed, but belting bad sides and dropping close matches to stronger sides isn't necessarily the sign of a great side. We were a great side, don't get me wrong, but I don't think the floggings mean as much as you're implying. We had a few in 2017 anyway.

It's also worth noting just like it was only 1-2 games which stopped us from achieving greatness in 2016, it was arguably the same deal in 2017. We were legitimately almost favourites to win the flag going into that semi final in 2017, and probably just about would have been had we won it. That's really saying something given we finished 6th IMO.

Both were great seasons, but IMHO over that run of 14-2 in 2017, we were even better than we were in 2016. Our best patch was definitely 2014 anyway and it's almost criminal that we kept s**tting the bed against Hawthorn, because I genuinely believe that would have been viewed to one of the more dominant flag wins of the century if we pulled it off.
I'm sorry but we didn't deserve the flag in 2017. We let ourselves get to 0-6, and then still weren't good enough to beat Hawthorn on two occasions, and still weren't good enough to rely on anything other than luck to get us over the line against the Tigers and Bombers especially. You can say that it's what great teams do, but great teams don't let themselves get 36 points behind in matches, nor do they let themselves get 3 goals behind with 2 minutes left in a game. I'm just saying we had to rely a lot on luck and nerve to get us through 2017, as opposed to just quality football which we played in 2016.

You're also ignoring that the flag would've been ours in 2016 if the competition was fair, so a flag > a nice run of 14-2.
 

Tesla Tenet

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Smith, Grundy, Macca. Going to be interesting to what our defence looks like come next season.
We have seen it for most of the year. Desperately need a KPD to anchor (Grundy, Richards, Dunkley, Carter etc) and we will be fine. We might not score much but we might have enough parts to a have strong back 6.
 

SSwans2011

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I'm sorry but we didn't deserve the flag in 2017. We let ourselves get to 0-6, and then still weren't good enough to beat Hawthorn on two occasions, and still weren't good enough to rely on anything other than luck to get us over the line against the Tigers and Bombers especially. You can say that it's what great teams do, but great teams don't let themselves get 36 points behind in matches, nor do they let themselves get 3 goals behind with 2 minutes left in a game. I'm just saying we had to rely a lot on luck and nerve to get us through 2017, as opposed to just quality football which we played in 2016.

You're also ignoring that the flag would've been ours in 2016 if the competition was fair, so a flag > a nice run of 14-2.
What luck? You make your own luck. Usually by playing better than the opposition.

And sure. I agree over the course of the entire season we were better in 2016. My initial point was that in my opinion we were better over our 14-2 run. We were unbeatable for all but one team in that run. We were beaten by the likes of Adelaide, the Bulldogs, Richmond and GWS in 2016. We beat all of those in our near-invincible run in 2017. A flag is better, yes. Doesn't change my opinion that our 2017 side over it's great run was better than our 2016 side.
 

caesar88

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What luck? You make your own luck. Usually by playing better than the opposition.

And sure. I agree over the course of the entire season we were better in 2016. My initial point was that in my opinion we were better over our 14-2 run. We were unbeatable for all but one team in that run. We were beaten by the likes of Adelaide, the Bulldogs, Richmond and GWS in 2016. We beat all of those in our near-invincible run in 2017. A flag is better, yes. Doesn't change my opinion that our 2017 side over it's great run was better than our 2016 side.
Well to each their own. I wasn't as impressed by our form shown in that 14-2 run as I was by the results.

2017 we felt stale, even when we were winning. That's when I first noticed our midfield wasn't able to get on top of games as easily as years prior, and I also noticed we weren't playing the SCG quite as convincingly as in prior years. Both have since become major issues for us, so I see 2016 as the culmination of our great period, and 2017 as the start of our decline. But we all see things differently!
 

BloodySwan

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So the Port board seem to think Wines wants to leave Port, and someone here said we were into him. If we are I wouldn't be shocked if we trade out Hayward or Hewett. Both Adelaide boys but Hewett does have a brother at Port. Personally I think Hewett has more upside than Hayward does
 

Foxx

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Jul 18, 2011
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Anyone know why Wayne Carey and John Longmire were traded from Sydney? I think it was the under 18s or academy. Both from NSW. Ive never been able to find a reason. Only that the Roos approached and offered 10 grand for 1 of them, and Sydney chucked the other in.
 

Bloodied52

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Speaking to Dew about a leadership role
Wow. No question the GoCo would benefit from having the hard nosed little bloke there. Maybe he too harbours coaching ambitions.

I watched Rischitelli in their Ressies this year and Bastinac for the Lions. Both are great Clubmen and you can see them directing the youngsters on the field.

I doubt KJ would expect to play in the firsts for the GoCo, beyond an open in an emergency basis. His body has stuffed him in the past two years. However on managed minutes in the 2s he would be a real asset for them.

If KJ wanted this then I expect our Club would do all it can to help him out.
 

Bloodied52

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Anyone know why Wayne Carey and John Longmire were traded from Sydney? I think it was the under 18s or academy. Both from NSW. Ive never been able to find a reason. Only that the Roos approached and offered 10 grand for 1 of them, and Sydney chucked the other in.
Money. We were broke.
 

robbieando

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Anyone know why Wayne Carey and John Longmire were traded from Sydney? I think it was the under 18s or academy. Both from NSW. Ive never been able to find a reason. Only that the Roos approached and offered 10 grand for 1 of them, and Sydney chucked the other in.
We didn't trade them. We transferred them as juniors to North as we had zone rights. We gave them up for so little because we were broke, end of story.
 
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