List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[BloodySwan]

What ever would give you that idea?

Talk of the interest in him having cooled, plus the teams who are supposedly keen on him (Saints & demons) don't have currency. They're also after Langdon. Wouldn't be shocked to see him go at the end of the trade period for something like pick 30-40 just to accommodate him

 

[Jimbo OZ]

Personally, I’d prefer to keep pick 4 but I’m interested if anyone would think it beneficial to split the pick with GWS for picks 12 & 13. They may need to add a player or future pick.

I guess this is predicated on where GWS believe Green will go. If they think he goes 4+, they will be keen to to trade up you our pick. Thoughts?

 

[caesar88]

Personally, I’d prefer to keep pick 4 but I’m interested if anyone would think it beneficial to split the pick with GWS for picks 12 & 13. They may need to add a player or future pick.

I guess this is predicated on where GWS believe Green will go. If they think he goes 4+, they will be keen to to trade up you our pick. Thoughts?

I think GWS will match it regardless of where the Green bid goes.

So I wouldn't think it's worth getting involved in a pick swap with them. Make them spend up if they have to.

 

[S120]

You are selling a few short there IMO.

Aliir's incredibly under-rated. As I've said, media's grown bored of him now, but he's among the very best defenders in the comp. I remember reading he was very high on the list of best one-on-one defenders in the game, and his intercepting and attacking is self-explanatory, something Mattress McGovern could aspire to. Tentacle Rance isn't as good as everyone thinks.

Florent's shown what he is capable of. If he produces that consistently he would be a gun of the comp no doubt.

In fairness, I didn't say what I think Rowbottom would be, just that there is something very special about him from early impressions, so he could be anything.

Dawson I have in the same dilemma as Heeney and Blakey, in that they're all suited to a variety of positions, but do we want them being the jack of all trades and the master of none?

I mean I rated Aliir as being up there with the likes of Harris Andrews, don't think that's underrated at all, Andrews is excellent. Rance has almost become underrated because people dislike him so much, he's a phenomenal defender. Aliir's attacking game from CHB still has a bit of development to go imo and his intercept marking has not been as consistent this year. The rest of his game has gone to a new level, meaning he's never been better and is still improving, but to rate up there as the best defender in the league he'll need to recapture his intercept marking imo. Certainly within his ability.

I think Heeney's best spot long-term is 2/3 forward and 1/3 midfield.

Dawson I think is best served as a HF with bursts through the middle. His raking left foot and marking are his biggest assets so he needs to play somewhere that maximises those skills imo. Across HF as a marking target and delivering inside 50 or taking shots from 50m.

Blakey I honestly have no idea where he'll end up; midfield or forward, but his potential is enormous. Like best player in the comp potential.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Talk of the interest in him having cooled, plus the teams who are supposedly keen on him (Saints & demons) don't have currency. They're also after Langdon. Wouldn't be shocked to see him go at the end of the trade period for something like pick 30-40 just to accommodate him

He stays then we gotta be tough like other clubs.

 

[caesar88]

I mean I rated Aliir as being up there with the likes of Harris Andrews, don't think that's underrated at all, Andrews is excellent. Rance has almost become underrated because people dislike him so much, he's a phenomenal defender. Aliir's attacking game from CHB still has a bit of development to go imo and his intercept marking has not been as consistent this year. The rest of his game has gone to a new level, meaning he's never been better and is still improving, but to rate up there as the best defender in the league he'll need to recapture his intercept marking imo. Certainly within his ability.

I think Heeney's best spot long-term is 2/3 forward and 1/3 midfield.

Dawson I think is best served as a HF with bursts through the middle. His raking left foot and marking are his biggest assets so he needs to play somewhere that maximises those skills imo. Across HF as a marking target and delivering inside 50 or taking shots from 50m.

Blakey I honestly have no idea where he'll end up; midfield or forward, but his potential is enormous. Like best player in the comp potential.

Aliir's intercept marking has been elite. He just hasn't needed to as much because he's spoiling more. Y'know, like defenders have been doing since the game's foundation. I also can't recall anyone kicking a bag on him, besides the Charlie Dixon debacle, though I'd argue Aliir's greatest opponent that day wasn't Dixon, but the umpires.

The problem with Heeney, Dawson and Blakey is that they're really good and you want them to be dominating. But they'll never dominate if they're doing multiple roles within a game. Eg. If Heeney played forward permanently, he could be routinely kicking multiple goals every week, and bags, too. He could work on just his forward craft, which would include his goalkicking. That is where his All Australians would come from. Same as Dawson. If his role is to be a HF like you said, he can't have bursts through the middle. He just has to work on his HF craft, nailing those marks and the precise kicks inside 50. That's where his All Australian would come from. Ditto Blakey really.

That is why I still see Aliir or Florent or even Rowbottom having potentially as good if not better careers, because they're likely to nail their roles and become among the best in the comp in them. (Although this ruck business won't help Aliir!) If they all found a role and mastered it though? Holy **** - what a team!

* also realised we left Hayward out of this discussion. He's a worthy mention because pre-injury, he was on track to be our leading goal-scorer this season, one season after becoming the youngest player since Buddy to clock 50 career goals!

 

[dosser]

Aliir's intercept marking has been elite. He just hasn't needed to as much because he's spoiling more. Y'know, like defenders have been doing since the game's foundation. I also can't recall anyone kicking a bag on him, besides the Charlie Dixon debacle, though I'd argue Aliir's greatest opponent that day wasn't Dixon, but the umpires.

The problem with Heeney, Dawson and Blakey is that they're really good and you want them to be dominating. But they'll never dominate if they're doing multiple roles within a game. Eg. If Heeney played forward permanently, he could be routinely kicking multiple goals every week, and bags, too. He could work on just his forward craft, which would include his goalkicking. That is where his All Australians would come from. Same as Dawson. If his role is to be a HF like you said, he can't have bursts through the middle. He just has to work on his HF craft, nailing those marks and the precise kicks inside 50. That's where his All Australian would come from. Ditto Blakey really.

That is why I still see Aliir or Florent or even Rowbottom having potentially as good if not better careers, because they're likely to nail their roles and become among the best in the comp in them. (Although this ruck business won't help Aliir!) If they all found a role and mastered it though? Holy **** - what a team!

* also realised we left Hayward out of this discussion. He's a worthy mention because pre-injury, he was on track to be our leading goal-scorer this season, one season after becoming the youngest player since Buddy to clock 50 career goals!

I enjoy reading your posts, C88 but you sure tend to use the word "elite" a lot. In my opinion there are usually only 3-4 "elite" players in the competition at any one time and the rest are scaled down from there. In fact, there are quite a few eras when there are no "elite" players at all.
Most elite players probably end up in the pointy end of the AFL hall of fame and I don't think that any of those you mentioned are in that category.
Still, that is probably just a difference between our definitions.

 

[SB70]

Aliir's intercept marking has been elite. He just hasn't needed to as much because he's spoiling more. Y'know, like defenders have been doing since the game's foundation. I also can't recall anyone kicking a bag on him, besides the Charlie Dixon debacle, though I'd argue Aliir's greatest opponent that day wasn't Dixon, but the umpires.

The problem with Heeney, Dawson and Blakey is that they're really good and you want them to be dominating. But they'll never dominate if they're doing multiple roles within a game. Eg. If Heeney played forward permanently, he could be routinely kicking multiple goals every week, and bags, too. He could work on just his forward craft, which would include his goalkicking. That is where his All Australians would come from. Same as Dawson. If his role is to be a HF like you said, he can't have bursts through the middle. He just has to work on his HF craft, nailing those marks and the precise kicks inside 50. That's where his All Australian would come from. Ditto Blakey really.

That is why I still see Aliir or Florent or even Rowbottom having potentially as good if not better careers, because they're likely to nail their roles and become among the best in the comp in them. (Although this ruck business won't help Aliir!) If they all found a role and mastered it though? Holy **** - what a team!

* also realised we left Hayward out of this discussion. He's a worthy mention because pre-injury, he was on track to be our leading goal-scorer this season, one season after becoming the youngest player since Buddy to clock 50 career goals!

I reckon Hayward is the wildcard - I am the eternal optimist (only 18mths ago I realized Rohan would not be an All Australian) but I see a bit of Fyfe in him. Not saying he will be that good but he has X factor.

I like Aliir but if we don't get a Grundy replacement I worry he will be exposed against the good sides. Someone that can organize us like McVeigh would make him better too.

Doubt our top 10-15 will be the issue in the coming years - they will be good and couple will be elite. If we are going to contend we need 16-30 to get better which they may.

 

[caesar88]

I enjoy reading your posts, C88 but you sure tend to use the word "elite" a lot. In my opinion there are usually only 3-4 "elite" players in the competition at any one time and the rest are scaled down from there. In fact, there are quite a few eras when there are no "elite" players at all.
Most elite players probably end up in the pointy end of the AFL hall of fame and I don't think that any of those you mentioned are in that category.
Still, that is probably just a difference between our definitions.

Yeah I guess it depends on how you define 'elite.'

If you mean in the grand scheme of the whole history of the AFL or a generation of players, then that's a big ask.

But I mean elite by position. That is usually evident in the All Australian squads (I don't pay much attention to the final teams because they're always bias BS.) If you look at premiership teams, they almost always have a handful of players good enough in their respective positions to make the AA squad. That is, the elite of their roles. Last year, pretty sure we had two, didn't we? Buddy and Lloyd? (Unless I'm forgetting someone.) This year we're likely to only have two (Sir Dane and Lloyd, and I think Lloyd will only get in the squad on stats.) That doesn't say much about how many elite players we have in their respective positions, and why our team isn't performing up to the standard required to make finals.

Fast forward to three or four years down the track, and I could genuinely see Aliir as a good enough defender to make the AA squad. Ditto Florent and Rowbottom in the midfield. Heeney, Blakey and Dawson? I'm less certain of, because I'm not sure they'll ever have locked down a role by that point, and it may mean we don't get the very best out of them. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Personally, I’d prefer to keep pick 4 but I’m interested if anyone would think it beneficial to split the pick with GWS for picks 12 & 13. They may need to add a player or future pick.

I guess this is predicated on where GWS believe Green will go. If they think he goes 4+, they will be keen to to trade up you our pick. Thoughts?

I'd only consider the splitting if one of the picks was inside the top 10.

Rather take pick 4/5 to the draft and maybe use our second to trade up to a late first.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Yeah I guess it depends on how you define 'elite.'

If you mean in the grand scheme of the whole history of the AFL or a generation of players, then that's a big ask.

But I mean elite by position. That is usually evident in the All Australian squads (I don't pay much attention to the final teams because they're always bias BS.) If you look at premiership teams, they almost always have a handful of players good enough in their respective positions to make the AA squad. That is, the elite of their roles. Last year, pretty sure we had two, didn't we? Buddy and Lloyd? (Unless I'm forgetting someone.) This year we're likely to only have two (Sir Dane and Lloyd, and I think Lloyd will only get in the squad on stats.) That doesn't say much about how many elite players we have in their respective positions, and why our team isn't performing up to the standard required to make finals.

Fast forward to three or four years down the track, and I could genuinely see Aliir as a good enough defender to make the AA squad. Ditto Florent and Rowbottom in the midfield. Heeney, Blakey and Dawson? I'm less certain of, because I'm not sure they'll ever have locked down a role by that point, and it may mean we don't get the very best out of them. I hope I'm wrong though.

He’s a big fella, what if he hurts himself and doesn’t play football for a whole 9 months? Career down the gurgler

 

[scaryness]

Yeah I guess it depends on how you define 'elite.'

If you mean in the grand scheme of the whole history of the AFL or a generation of players, then that's a big ask.

But I mean elite by position. That is usually evident in the All Australian squads (I don't pay much attention to the final teams because they're always bias BS.) If you look at premiership teams, they almost always have a handful of players good enough in their respective positions to make the AA squad. That is, the elite of their roles. Last year, pretty sure we had two, didn't we? Buddy and Lloyd? (Unless I'm forgetting someone.) This year we're likely to only have two (Sir Dane and Lloyd, and I think Lloyd will only get in the squad on stats.) That doesn't say much about how many elite players we have in their respective positions, and why our team isn't performing up to the standard required to make finals.

Fast forward to three or four years down the track, and I could genuinely see Aliir as a good enough defender to make the AA squad. Ditto Florent and Rowbottom in the midfield. Heeney, Blakey and Dawson? I'm less certain of, because I'm not sure they'll ever have locked down a role by that point, and it may mean we don't get the very best out of them. I hope I'm wrong though.

CD categorise 'elite' as the top 10%. So roughly the top 75 players at a guesstimate.

Would change it to 5% personally.

 

[SGBeach]

I enjoy reading your posts, C88 but you sure tend to use the word "elite" a lot. In my opinion there are usually only 3-4 "elite" players in the competition at any one time and the rest are scaled down from there. In fact, there are quite a few eras when there are no "elite" players at all.
Most elite players probably end up in the pointy end of the AFL hall of fame and I don't think that any of those you mentioned are in that category.
Still, that is probably just a difference between our definitions.

Bloody good or Bloody great players may be a better description

 

[Punts]

Why isn’t Bailey Smith re committing, kid it a jet.

Get him

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Knocks on him are more outside and very left side dominant. Pure outside mid at AFL level at the minute. Reckon will be pick in top 15 but if he slides...



Garcia has definitely gone unnoticed. The combined may push him up, injury permitting.

To be honest, unless there is value, really do not want top up type. Time to add talent and spread our mix with a few players getting into the 50 and 100 game mark

He has not been unnoticed by me. I already have a swag of nicknames for him involving music and surfing. Make it happen!

 

[Membling]

He has not been unnoticed by me. I already have a swag of nicknames for him involving music and surfing. Make it happen!

Well... that is a key consideration.

 

[The King!]

Papley wants to play for Shaw they reckon on Twitter

Hopefully crap

 

[Olian]

Papley wants to play for Shaw they reckon on Twitter

Hopefully crap

Mason Wood as part of the trade.
Why do we want more off casts from Norf?

 

[Membling]

Mason Wood as part of the trade.
Why do we want more off casts from Norf?

Literally started that rumour on BF.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Mason Wood as part of the trade.
Why do we want more off casts from Norf?

For the love of goodness sakes hopefully not! Can't we just take their first if they so want Papley...

 

[Punts]

We will get there no doubt about it imo

 

[Chaisa]

I'd be pretty dissatisfied if Papley went for their second + Wood. I kind of get why they wouldn't want to use a first but he's still contracted and a key player....

 

[Punts]

Or they can give us LDU

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Or they can give us LDU

Would be a pretty reasonable trade

 

[S120]

I'd be keeping Papley to his contract (ROK style) if we can't get the deal we want for him. He's coming into his prime and he's an important part of our club as a leader-in-the-making. I'd back us to improve again next year and allow the reasons to stay to mount up.

12 months from now, if he's still wanting to go (if indeed he is at all), then he can go. You can find small forwards of high quality in the rookie draft every year. Of course Papley's level of small forward doesn't come around every day, but his position is just about the most replaceable there is in terms of what you need to spend in the draft.