List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

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SSwans2011

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I feel for poor Hayward... being left out of all your bickering about our forward line...

McCartin, Hayward, Paps, Ronke, Heens, Dawson... It's not like we don't have young options.

Likewise, we have some pretty good older options around Buddy too in Reid, Cunners, Sinkers, Menz, Parker, Hewy... Who can all float forward and play a solid role there.

It's our defenders I am worried about. Melican has a heap of pressure on his shoulders. Rampe is now our "leader" and without a Smitty, who takes that elite small forward (like Cameron) from now on? Likewise, do we trust Melican/Rampe on the big tall marking Forwards (or Fwd/Ruc) options?

Replacing Reg, Smitty & Macca out of that defensive half of the ground is a ridiculously huge task... One I am very weary of overlooking.
The defensive problems you speak of are why I think McCartin ends up in the backline. Otherwise it's a case of you can't just decide to sign a gun defender, they have to want to come here. Hayward is a obviously a jet, but he's another small-medium type, and could use the support of a key forward.
The fact that a gun ruck doesn’t want to come to Sydney is not justification for signing Daniher! Why take something just because it’s there!?
Because it's literally we either sign Daniher (which improves our list, no matter how you look at it), or we don't. Not we don't sign Daniher and magically pick-up Grundy or Gawn in a few seasons.
 

F_therest

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I never expected for us to be first in line to get a genuine gun player, seemingly out of nowhere, and the whole thread is people complaining about it.
I suspect it's because some are kind of making out like getting Daniher is costing you Papley.

But imagine losing Papley and bringing in no one of note?? That would be a real disaster.

Get Daniher and it softens the blow and is an amazing get (if you can get him fit). He's not much older than Papley.

If you get him fit and firing he'll deliver equal to Papley and arguably more...has kicked 60+ goals in a season while this year is Papley's best with 37.
 

SSwans2011

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I find the structure arguments dumbfounding. Daniher leaves us with our best 22 looking something like:

FB: Rampe - McCartin - Mills
HB: Dawson - Aliir - Lloyd
C: Cunningham - Kennedy - Florent
HF: Heeney - Daniher - Blakey
FF: Papley - Franklin - Hayward
Foll: Sinclair - Parker - Hewett
I/C: Rowbottom - Menzel - O'Riordan - Jones

That's assuming Papley and Jones don't go, but what other moves are we feasibly going to make in the next few years that would immediately improve us as much as that? You can also fit Reid in if you move Blakey into the midfield.
 

caesar88

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Well, how do you suppose we go about signing a gun ruck if none want to come here?
At the risk of this old chestnut rearing it's ugly head, a gun ruck won't help if your midfielders aren't making enough things happen with their opportunities.

2018 GF - Collingwood win the hit-outs by 28, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.
2017 GF - Adelaide win the hit-outs by 27, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.

Because they didn't have the dynamic midfielders that West Coast and Richmond respectively had. Shuey and Martin both won Norm Smiths in midfields that didn't get premium service, because they're smart and athletic and explosive midfielders who make the most of the opportunities when they get them.

We have a grand total of three of those types at the minute: Rowbottom, Florent and Jones. That's a lot of promise in those three, but not a lot of certainty.

So I'm not really fussed about signing a gun ruck tbh.
 

SSwans2011

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At the risk of this old chestnut rearing it's ugly head, a gun ruck won't help if your midfielders aren't making enough things happen with their opportunities.

2018 GF - Collingwood win the hit-outs by 28, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.
2017 GF - Adelaide win the hit-outs by 27, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.

Because they didn't have the dynamic midfielders that West Coast and Richmond respectively had. Shuey and Martin both won Norm Smiths in midfields that didn't get premium service, because they're smart and athletic and explosive midfielders who make the most of the opportunities when they get them.

We have a grand total of three of those types at the minute: Rowbottom, Florent and Jones. That's a lot of promise in those three, but not a lot of certainty.

So I'm not really fussed about signing a gun ruck tbh.
Alright, we'll just go sign a dynamic gun mid that wants to come here, because there's so many of those. Easy peasy, all our problems are solved.
 

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SSwans2011

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People on this board aren't putting much faith in the likes of Blakey, Rowbottom and Florent to come good as our future crop of midfielders. We have plenty of young talent there. As far as young KPFs go, we have McCartin who could yet end up being a defender.
 

caesar88

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Alright, we'll just go sign a dynamic gun mid that wants to come here, because there's so many of those. Easy peasy, all our problems are solved.
Thanks for your instructional tour on how the hypotheticals thread works!

(I also don't like that we are now sniping as you and I have had some good debates in recent times so we may have to agree to disagree on what our priorities should be)
 

SSwans2011

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Thanks for your instructional tour on how the hypotheticals thread works!

(I also don't like that we are now sniping as you and I have had some good debates in recent times so we may have to agree to disagree on what our priorities should be)
I'm not sniping, it's a genuine point. It's one thing to be critical of us going after Daniher, but nobody has provided a reasonable alternative that improves our list to a similar extent. Nobody has even tried to provide a realistic one, so it's kind of hard to not just resort to sarcasm when addressing the tired old point that "we have other needs!!!1!1!"
 

Kapanis

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At the risk of this old chestnut rearing it's ugly head, a gun ruck won't help if your midfielders aren't making enough things happen with their opportunities.

2018 GF - Collingwood win the hit-outs by 28, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.
2017 GF - Adelaide win the hit-outs by 27, midfield gets thrashed, lose the match.

Because they didn't have the dynamic midfielders that West Coast and Richmond respectively had. Shuey and Martin both won Norm Smiths in midfields that didn't get premium service, because they're smart and athletic and explosive midfielders who make the most of the opportunities when they get them.

We have a grand total of three of those types at the minute: Rowbottom, Florent and Jones. That's a lot of promise in those three, but not a lot of certainty.

So I'm not really fussed about signing a gun ruck tbh.
Caesar, Collingwood were in front for 98% of last year's gf and extremely unlucky not to win, that's pulling straws with that argument. Without Grundy they wouldn't have made the gf.
 

The Gong

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id argue since Ball retired.
Mumford didn't do anything for you?

I know it's cool to dump on Tippett but he did have a very good run as our ruck for awhile there. Maybe he wasn't a "proper ruck" but he made a pretty bloody good fist of it.

I'm still not sold on Naismith but it's been so long since he played I can't remember if he's any good or not.
 

Kapanis

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I find the structure arguments dumbfounding. Daniher leaves us with our best 22 looking something like:

FB: Rampe - McCartin - Mills
HB: Dawson - Aliir - Lloyd
C: Cunningham - Kennedy - Florent
HF: Heeney - Daniher - Blakey
FF: Papley - Franklin - Hayward
Foll: Sinclair - Parker - Hewett
I/C: Rowbottom - Menzel - O'Riordan - Jones

That's assuming Papley and Jones don't go, but what other moves are we feasibly going to make in the next few years that would immediately improve us as much as that? You can also fit Reid in if you move Blakey into the midfield.
If Sinkers is our number 1 ruckman we're up s**t creek.
 

Millky95

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We haven't had a proper ruckman since Pyke left.
I know the game was different back in 2012 but our last premiership had 2 ruckman. 2014 had Pyke and Tippett.

I always liked Tippett as a ruckman. I still blame that ******* Carlton player in 2013 ruining his leg as the start of the end of Tippett
 

caesar88

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Caesar, Collingwood were in front for 98% of last year's gf and extremely unlucky not to win, that's pulling straws with that argument. Without Grundy they wouldn't have made the gf.
They kicked nearly half of their goals in the one quarter, that's why they were in front for so long. They were out-played for most of that match and it was only a matter of when, not if, West Coast would overtake them.
 

The Gong

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he was only okay for us. He was the one who got subbed out of the 2012 GF because he was useless. became a vastly better player when he went to GWS and decided to just smash blokes. He didnt play like that for us though.
Nothing in this post is correct.
 

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