List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Thread

Human Person

Loved Gresham before it was cool.
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Seb isn't a good kick. He misses targets often. That is our biggest problem as a team. You can tell someone to go harder at the ball, but skills are different.

Anyone that keeps missing targets is a liability in the midfield, unless they're just going to handball the ball out every time.

Game after game we build momentum due to pressure only to lose it by butchering the ball. WE NEED GOOD KICKS. Plain and simple.

The fact that Seb is highly regarded by some is good... we might actually get something for him.
Fyfe and Danger have a habit of missing targets as well. If we Lose Seb as well as Steven then we’re in trouble. Even if we wanted to trade him, which I highly doubt we are, he’s more likely to get us a draft pick than an upgrade to a better midfielder.
 

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If Steven leaves, I'm trading our first + whatever we get for Steven to Adelaide for that #1.

Matt Rowell is your Bont, Cripps day one mids
+1

Crows might be keen on Will Gould (SA boy touted top 10 pick). If they think they could get him and a 2nd local lad they may be interested

Still, history shows it is almost unheard of for clubs to trade away pick 1. Reckon we would have to give up massive overs.

Edit:

OR...... crows go after Grundy. They don't want to give up pick 1 for him (even tho he is worth it IMO) ... so, they take our 1st (9ish) and our stuv pick (19ish)

They give 9 and their 2020 1st to pies for a 2nd and Grundy. They keep a presence in or around the end of 1st round this year for a SA kid, they also get the best ruck in the league.. all for pick 1 and their 2020 1st with a 2nd back.

I might be dreamin but i really want Rowell or Anderson!
 
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It's not about blame. I do blame the club for where our midfield is at, but that's irrelevant. I'm looking at someone to trade that might have some currency, who i honestly believe we can do better than due to his poor disposal.

We need to sort this disposal problem out. For me, anyone who doesn't use the ball well is on the table. It's the only way we're going to eventually challenge for a flag.
I get what you are saying.. we’ve been trying to recruit good kicks for a long time now.. webster, white, rice, sinclair, billings.. but the result is still poor.. If you want to get rid of the poor kicks, Geary; Mckenzie and Dunstan woukdn’t get a game.. I might be wrong, the issue is in the engine room. Because we don’t have 2-3 inside mids ala Kennedy, Parker from Swans that can win the ball first then handball effectively to an outside runner, most of our kicks are rushed/under pressure.... Ross is a good kick normally, but under pressure (he has to get the ball himself and then take opponents on to kick it) his kicks are not as effective.. fix the midfield problem (by recruiting hardened bodies and players can actually get their hands on the ball first; kicking is secondary if they can handball well to others, even Clinton Jones was an effective player with us with that wonky kick)
 
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I get what you are saying.. we’ve been trying to recruit good kicks for a long time now.. webster, white, rice, sinclair, billings.. but the result is still poor.. If you want to get rid of the poor kicks, Geary; Mckenzie and Dunstan woukdn’t get a game.. I might be wrong, the issue is in the engine room. Because we don’t have 2-3 inside mids ala Kennedy, Parker from Swans that can win the ball first then handball effectively to an outside runner, most of our kicks are rushed/under pressure.... Ross is a good kick normally, but under pressure (he has to get the ball himself and then take opponents on to kick it) his kicks are not as effective.. fix the midfield problem (by recruiting hardened bodies and players can actually get their hands on the ball first; kicking is secondary if they can handball well to others, even Clinton Jones was an effective player with us with that wonky kick)

When you say Ross is a good kick normally, that's somewhere we disagree.

I hear what you're saying about Geary etc

Most will probably disagree, but for more grunt in the midfield, i'd be putting Parker in there (and leaving him there for a good while) and i'd put Gresham back up forward.
 
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The more i think about this, it makes a lot of sense to draft a Michael Barlow at mid-season draft, and ask Acres, Clark, Coffield, Steele, Bytel to learn off him and Hannebury.. at the season end trade/get another free agent mid in.. we’re good with forwards/backs.. fix the midfield we’ll make the finals.
 

CaptainRisky

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Guess who got the most centre clearances for the Saints on the weekend. That kind of suggests he IS a mid already. 9 contested possessions isn't so pathetic either. So doing a bit better at footy than Ursain Bolt.
I agree , Phillips is probably more a utility player . But Steven should never have been that inside mid either.

Like i said , if Seb is part of a trade for a gun mid, so be it. ... But otherwise we won't fix our team by getting rid of the players who have SOME ability to win the ball. And that beautiful speedy outside winger everyone always wants , will be crap at the Saints if we have no-one to feed him the ball.
Wrong and wrong , Seb had 4 clearances on the weekend so only 5 out . Luke had 6 clearances .
9 contested possessions is not 9 clearances and we were talking about mids :rolleyes:
 
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When you say Ross is a good kick normally, that's somewhere we disagree.

I hear what you're saying about Geary etc

Most will probably disagree, but for more grunt in the midfield, i'd be putting Parker in there (and leaving him there for a good while) and i'd put Gresham back up forward.
And don’t forget another issure is our forwards are almost always out numbered, even worse, because our ball movement is slow, our forward line is flooded with opposition players.. good luck pin point any forwards, any small margin for error will result in a rebound.
 

VDS66

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Seb is a double edged sword IMO.

Right now he's our best available mid, and that's the problem. Not his fault but the club.

Make a list of all the top 3 mids in each team then compare where Seb sits.

Objectively, which other club would he say in the top 2 or 3?

That to me sums up our plight with our midfield.

You don't trade him for a pick. That's stupid.

But if it was part of a trade for an upgrade, then you'd look at it for the simple reason that if everything remains equal, then replacing him with a better player technically improves us.

Naturally you want to build depth of quality if possible.
 
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The more i think about this, it makes a lot of sense to draft a Michael Barlow at mid-season draft, and ask Acres, Clark, Coffield, Steele, Bytel to learn off him and Hannebury.. at the season end trade/get another free agent mid in.. we’re good with forwards/backs.. fix the midfield we’ll make the finals.
couldn't hurt
 

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Wrong and wrong , Seb had 4 clearances on the weekend so only 5 out . Luke had 6 clearances .
9 contested possessions is not 9 clearances and we were talking about mids :rolleyes:
WRONG ...Yourself. Because i said centre clearances.

According to the OFFICIAL SAINTS STATS. the players who got the most CENTRE clearances were.
Marshall 3 and Phillips 3.
Phillips the guy who didn't look like he could play in the middle to your expert eye. If he wasn't in the middle he did a good job with those clearances.

They lead Dunstan , Gresham and Ross, who had 2 each.
 

CaptainRisky

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WRONG ...Yourself. Because i said centre clearances.

According to the OFFICIAL SAINTS STATS. the players who got the most CENTRE clearances were.
Marshall 3 and Phillips 3.
Phillips the guy who didn't look like he could play in the middle to your expert eye. If he wasn't in the middle he did a good job with those clearances.

They lead Dunstan , Gresham and Ross, who had 2 each.
I stand corrected , i will say i bet his clearances were more of a loose ball get than grunt work like luke does , even so that just show how **** our mids are doesnt it
Ps , where did you see those stats as its usually just clearances
 

Human Person

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So Seb's the new whipping boy?
Well he’s the acting captain, so obviously we have to hate him. He’s also been consistent in his role and has a B&F to his name. Absolute plodder, trade him for a 3rd rounder and draft the next Judd with it.
 
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You know Gringo, until recently, I've shared 99% of the same thoughts as you on most things. When things started going to crap we weren't jumping on the sack richo wagon cos we both acknowledged our drafting and trading was the number 1 culprit.

Im also not one to slag players or opp teams, but these blues guys are next level in their delusion and arrogance. Yes they have some good youngsters there. But these guys just lack that will and hunger to win games. They dont have nearly enough mature leaders to instill that 'must win' attitide. Year after year there are always excuses(from their fans, coaches, board, the media) for their poor performances. And people wonder why they struggle to close out games.

What distinguishes us from them i think, is our guys know what its like to be competitive, most had the opportunity to watch Roo and Joey and the level of effort and care they provided each time they took the field. We lost our way last year no question, but signs are atm that they've turned it around. Primarily because the effort is there most games. The Parker pickup has been genius not just because he can play, but his whole story as a mature age recruit, with a young family, just thankful for this lifechanging opportunity to play Afl and earn a decent living. Watching his efforts would surely rub off on some of our players. Shake and remind them not to be complacent. Carlton doesnt have that. They recruited McGov and Fasolo both of who's drive i would question. After a few of their close losses I've noticed their supposed leaders like Thomas and Murphy share laughs with opponents. Casboult perpetually smiling after misses amd mistakes. And it's rubbed off on others, Plowman, O'Brien, etc.

When we recruited Hanners i immediately thought about the time we got Hamill. Whilst i loved Harvs, Burkey and Loewe, Sammy just hit a different level of intensity. I dont reckon the Hayes, Roo, Bj, and crew have 80% of the career they've had without him showing the way early on. Yes Hanners hasnt got on the park yet, but if hes improving standards in training and helping the kids, then at least we will see improvement.

**** ive rambled on. ******* Carlton. I dont know how we will go the rest of this year. But at least i can see improvement and effort. The only thing im sure about is that we are still better than them and we have a brighter future as well. And i get great comfort outta that.
Not many on out current list know what it's like to be competitive. Brownie, Hanners maby Stuv. And 2 of them not playing.
 
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So now we begin to see the impact of the mid season draft.....Grigg's retirement won't be the last I reckon and look forward to a fair number who are suddenly out for the season to allow that early mature-ager draft selection opportunity mid-season.

Pressure mounts on Armo, McCartin you would think...
Isn’t McCartin on the long term injury list? Why would Armo retire early giving up the rest of his contract midseason?
 
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I stand corrected , i will say i bet his clearances were more of a loose ball get than grunt work like luke does , even so that just show how **** our mids are doesnt it
Ps , where did you see those stats as its usually just clearances
Advanced options button on the right had side, all the good stuff is in there.

And yes it is. We really badly need a mid or two with grunt. We got by for years with Armo and Steven, but now its worse. Hawks did a great job picking up Worpel in the draft.
 

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Salary cap squeeze on at Collingwood - Tom Phillips is uncontracted , could pick him up because we could offer him more money than the Magpies - Taylor Adams as well.
If we are roasting Seb for his foot skills, Taylor Adams isn't the right trade target for us.
 
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You know Gringo, until recently, I've shared 99% of the same thoughts as you on most things. When things started going to crap we weren't jumping on the sack richo wagon cos we both acknowledged our drafting and trading was the number 1 culprit.

Im also not one to slag players or opp teams, but these blues guys are next level in their delusion and arrogance. Yes they have some good youngsters there. But these guys just lack that will and hunger to win games. They dont have nearly enough mature leaders to instill that 'must win' attitide. Year after year there are always excuses(from their fans, coaches, board, the media) for their poor performances. And people wonder why they struggle to close out games.

What distinguishes us from them i think, is our guys know what its like to be competitive, most had the opportunity to watch Roo and Joey and the level of effort and care they provided each time they took the field. We lost our way last year no question, but signs are atm that they've turned it around. Primarily because the effort is there most games. The Parker pickup has been genius not just because he can play, but his whole story as a mature age recruit, with a young family, just thankful for this lifechanging opportunity to play Afl and earn a decent living. Watching his efforts would surely rub off on some of our players. Shake and remind them not to be complacent. Carlton doesnt have that. They recruited McGov and Fasolo both of who's drive i would question. After a few of their close losses I've noticed their supposed leaders like Thomas and Murphy share laughs with opponents. Casboult perpetually smiling after misses amd mistakes. And it's rubbed off on others, Plowman, O'Brien, etc.

When we recruited Hanners i immediately thought about the time we got Hamill. Whilst i loved Harvs, Burkey and Loewe, Sammy just hit a different level of intensity. I dont reckon the Hayes, Roo, Bj, and crew have 80% of the career they've had without him showing the way early on. Yes Hanners hasnt got on the park yet, but if hes improving standards in training and helping the kids, then at least we will see improvement.

**** ive rambled on. ******* Carlton. I dont know how we will go the rest of this year. But at least i can see improvement and effort. The only thing im sure about is that we are still better than them and we have a brighter future as well. And i get great comfort outta that.

I'm getting too old to be smug with any level of confidence. It seems like every time I've bagged out other sides they immediately get better than us like some mystical fatalism takes hold to remind us of our place in the order.

I think with Melbourne and Carlton, there is definitely an acceptance of losing that is hard to shake. One thing I have to credit Richo with is he kept us competitive and hard working.
 
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