List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Thread

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Our initial reliance on FA to compliment early draft picks is what has put us in this situation IMO.

With hindsight we would have kept a few players instead of pushing them out the door.
The club was blindsided by the AFL raising the TPP a few seasons ago so that GWS could re-sign a few key players (end of Kelly's 1st contract IIRC).

Norf & us had banked our cap space so we could go shopping then HQ made the arbitrary decision (shock horror) to increase the cap. All of a sudden our war chest was worth a lot less that we had planned it to be. Richmond re-signed Dusty, Freo did the same with Fyfe and we were left to sign Nate Brown.

The plan was very justified until the rug was pulled from under our feet.
 

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Geez we are in a precarious position with mids atm , Losing Koby last year was a blow as he had real grunt and could kick a goal , when he was on he was pretty good , now we have Stuv who may not play again some are saying or may even want to be traded , Luke is up and down like a yo yo and has doubts on him by myself and many others even though when on the ground gives 100%.
We apparently drafted Hunter and Coff to be mids , i can see Hunter being a classy mid in a year or so but i think Coff will give us his best service streaming off the back line , god knows we need some more class in the backline , Gresh maybe a chance to be a handy part time mid but are we robbing the forward line of goals by having him in the guts ?
I think billings is more of an outside player where he can use his skills, in saying that this year he has gone a lot harder into packs than he has in the past but 3 centre clearances in 8 games is not really what you want .
Lets hope Bytel can add some grunt to the midfield next year even though he will still be just a kid because even though Steele is a big lad he is so busy tagging he doesn't get the ball , a bit over 1 centre clearance per game for a guy who spends most of his time on the ball is pretty average having said that just about every part of his game has improved this year , maybe he needs to be let off the leash instead of tagging every week.
Then we have Blake and Seb , im not sure anyone has the correct answer as to where Blake's best position is, personally the more he is in the play the better i say , leave him up forward and he tends to drift out of the game and Seb , as much as he isnt the perfect mid he is about the best we have ATM so it shows IMO how much we need to draft mids and get Hanners fit , Can you imagine a Cripps in our team ? we would have won another 2 games at least.
So draft time ,,,,, Mids Mids and Mids plus a back up ruck from a state league
I don't share the same pessimism about our mids. Yes it is still our glaring weakness but it's not as if the cupboard is bare... there's elements of a very good midfield but, as you said, we need a big nasty mid who can take the lead, knock a few blokes over and get the pill out to the likes of Billings, Gresh, Acres and Ross.

I have little doubt that Hunter will develop into a very very good inside/outside mid... I see him more in the mould of a Dal Santo than a Lenny though. That's probably our major problem actually, we have a lot of good dual midfielders but no alpha dog to lead them when needed. Hanners will make a massive difference here when he's ready to go.

A mate who has worked in underage rep footy reckons that Bytel is the man who we should be excited about. He's a big boy now and could finally be that large body inside who can get the ball, break through the stoppage and get it to our outsiders.

You're right about our draft and trade strategy though. Our forward line and backline looks pretty nicely set up for the next 10 years but the midfield needs to keep being added to.

Gee I'd love to extract Braydon Sier from the Pies if the Grundy re-signing makes things tight for the filth. While Hunter gave him a bath in the VFL, I see him developing into a elite inside mid.
 
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I don't share the same pessimism about our mids. Yes it is still our glaring weakness but it's not as if the cupboard is bare... there's elements of a very good midfield but, as you said, we need a big nasty mid who can take the lead, knock a few blokes over and get the pill out to the likes of Billings, Gresh, Acres and Ross.

I have little doubt that Hunter will develop into a very very good inside/outside mid... I see him more in the mould of a Dal Santo than a Lenny though. That's probably our major problem actually, we have a lot of good dual midfielders but no alpha dog to lead them when needed. Hanners will make a massive difference here when he's ready to go.

A mate who has worked in underage rep footy reckons that Bytel is the man who we should be excited about. He's a big boy now and could finally be that large body inside who can get the ball, break through the stoppage and get it to our outsiders.

You're right about our draft and trade strategy though. Our forward line and backline looks pretty nicely set up for the next 10 years but the midfield needs to keep being added to.

Gee I'd love to extract Braydon Sier from the Pies if the Grundy re-signing makes things tight for the filth. While Hunter gave him a bath in the VFL, I see him developing into a elite inside mid.
Yeah your right , its that Cripps , Kennedy type we really need the Big Dog , I took a lot of interest in watching Sier at the weekend as a few on here mention him now and again , he sure has one rig and looks that part , his clearance stats are pretty good , can shank his kicks a bit but i guess id rather the ball in our half with a quick kick than going the other way
I have hope with Bytel , bull of a kid and hard at it , lets hope the back mends well , very polite young man too
 
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Salary cap squeeze on at Collingwood - Tom Phillips is uncontracted , could pick him up because we could offer him more money than the Magpies - Taylor Adams as well.
Any player that improves our starting 22 is worth exploring.
Adams is an upgrade on dunstan so that’s a yes.
Phillips is an upgrade on his brother, based on team selected on the weekend. So that’s a yes

Problem is we have no currency. Collingwood won’t want any of our players and we don’t have any draft picks in the range of these 2. Next years second for Phillips may be in the ball park. But we have nothing for Adams.
They’re also both in the age bracket that pies wouldn’t want to get rid of. Pendles, beams and Sidebottom all getting on.

Spitballing a trade:
Stuv and Paddy to Geelong
For (currently) pick 18 and next years 1st.

Or pick 18 + one of cockatoo/Fogarty

Obviously depends on where Geelong finish this year and where they see themselves finishing next year. They’re right in the premiership window.

Then send 18 and next years 2nd for Phillips and Adams and we’ll do Collingwood a favour taking their salaries off their books.

Heavily weighted in our favour but Geelong get Stuv to give them another player for a crack at the flag. Gain Paddy as steak knives who could make it but unlikely. Lose unknown draft picks
Collingwood lose a couple of best 22 but get 1st rounder and cap space to resign Grundy
 

StCicatriz

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The club was blindsided by the AFL raising the TPP a few seasons ago so that GWS could re-sign a few key players (end of Kelly's 1st contract IIRC).

Norf & us had banked our cap space so we could go shopping then HQ made the arbitrary decision (shock horror) to increase the cap. All of a sudden our war chest was worth a lot less that we had planned it to be. Richmond re-signed Dusty, Freo did the same with Fyfe and we were left to sign Nate Brown.

The plan was very justified until the rug was pulled from under our feet.
blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
 
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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
It was more the implementation method that screwed us.

I think it was widely assumed that all contracts would be increased by the tpp increase until renegotiated - so no change to relative cap space. A fair number of teams structured their contracts so would automatically kick in based on that assumption. Those teams that didn't though basically got a one year free hit of cash that gave them a chance to at least defer pain if not restructure to avoid altogether.

The players union (through some potentially majorly conflicted negotiators/player reps) backed down from treating all their members equally - presumably to more easily get the headline number/capability that they wanted.
 

StCicatriz

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It was more the implementation method that screwed us.

I think it was widely assumed that all contracts would be increased by the tpp increase until renegotiated - so no change to relative cap space. A fair number of teams structured their contracts so would automatically kick in based on that assumption. Those teams that didn't though basically got a one year free hit of cash that gave them a chance to at least defer pain if not restructure to avoid altogether.

The players union (through some potentially majorly conflicted negotiators/player reps) backed down from treating all their members equally - presumably to more easily get the headline number/capability that they wanted.
plenty of clubs planned for it. for example port adelaide were on record stating they planned for it going up. GWS, WCE and the Pies as well.

we have no one to blame but our selves. we got the call wrong.
 
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Are we still talking about letting stuv go to Geelong?
West coast need to give up something big to get Kelly off them you would think.
Would Shuey be interested in getting back to vic.?

Steven to Geelong
Kelly to west coast
Shuey to st.kilda.
 

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And don’t forget another issure is our forwards are almost always out numbered, even worse, because our ball movement is slow, our forward line is flooded with opposition players.. good luck pin point any forwards, any small margin for error will result in a rebound.
We've made a clear move to slow down our ball movement this year, it's been the biggest change to our game plan. 5 weeks in we already won as many games as we did last year.

Are you suggesting we go back to the way we played last year and try and move the ball faster again?
 
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Any player that improves our starting 22 is worth exploring.
Adams is an upgrade on dunstan so that’s a yes.
Phillips is an upgrade on his brother, based on team selected on the weekend. So that’s a yes

Problem is we have no currency. Collingwood won’t want any of our players and we don’t have any draft picks in the range of these 2. Next years second for Phillips may be in the ball park. But we have nothing for Adams.
They’re also both in the age bracket that pies wouldn’t want to get rid of. Pendles, beams and Sidebottom all getting on.

Spitballing a trade:
Stuv and Paddy to Geelong
For (currently) pick 18 and next years 1st.


Or pick 18 + one of cockatoo/Fogarty

Obviously depends on where Geelong finish this year and where they see themselves finishing next year. They’re right in the premiership window.

Then send 18 and next years 2nd for Phillips and Adams and we’ll do Collingwood a favour taking their salaries off their books.

Heavily weighted in our favour but Geelong get Stuv to give them another player for a crack at the flag. Gain Paddy as steak knives who could make it but unlikely. Lose unknown draft picks
Collingwood lose a couple of best 22 but get 1st rounder and cap space to resign Grundy
I like your positivity but that's never going to happen , agree that an player upgrade is only going to help, as much as im not Phillips biggest fan , his stats are on par if not slightly better than his brothers at the same age so id say we should stick with Ed
 

VDS66

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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
Not sure if blinsided but the timing was appallingly sadly.

Allowed GWS to retain players, more so than our ability to spend large.
 

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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.
 
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We've made a clear move to slow down our ball movement this year, it's been the biggest change to our game plan. 5 weeks in we already won as many games as we did last year.

Are you suggesting we go back to the way we played last year and try and move the ball faster again?
No, last year’s game plan was idiotic.. asking players who already have suspect disposals to play on at all costs and cough it up under pressure.. This year is a complete reversal, the default route forward has been long bombs down the line which often amounts to 50/50 or nothing.. the times that we won are when our pressure games are on top against lowly teams..

Last week for example, when west coast transition the ball from the backline, despite our zone/pressure, they were able to spot up leading players along the boundary line and use an extra number to transition the ball to their 50 with ease.

Compare to when we have the ball in the backline, all of our forwards have pushed up anticipate the long bomb, creating congestion, so there is no space to lead to or run the ball from the backline.. the only choice is long bomb to half back, ball up, and we reset again.. we basically give the opposition a chance at every possesion, long bomb to a pack is 50/50 at best.

What I’m suggesting is rather than moving from one extreme game plan (play on at all cost) to another (long bombs).. both are low percentage plays if our forwards are continually being out numbered, no matter how hard they compete and pressure, it’s going to be an uphill battle..

The alternative is to set up with a balance attack/defence.. teach the players to be smart about it.. use hands to get through a zone, plan to have one on ones at the front half, move the ball quickly, long bomb only to one on ones. When our forward line is flooded, slow it down and keep possesion.. think we tried it last week, that’s why Philips was brought in.. he can link up plays and hit short targets. We just need more of it.
 
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blind sided. surely you're not serious.

every man and his dog knew the tpp was going up. it's tied to tv rights deal and literally has an expiry date on the CBA that mirrors it.

literally every club planned for it going up.
Planned for it to increase but not to go up as much as it did.

That’s the facts, not fussed whether you believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.
Zak Jones would be best 22 so he’s worth considering. But at the price that Sydney would want, no way should we deal.

Neither of the crouch brothers is gettable. Why would Adelaide part with their 1st or 2nd best midfielder? Greenwood is gettable and would be worth a look.
To give it a little perspective: in 2004, arguably the strongest midfield we’ve ever had. We had Hayes, Harvey, Thompson, Ball & Dal Santo. Now let’s say Carlton did a dumbass trade with us that year and we had pick 1. Would you trade any of those players just because we were going to draft Deledio at 1?

We should definitely be having a crack at Martin tho
 
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Zak Jones would be best 22 so he’s worth considering. But at the price that Sydney would want, no way should we deal.

Neither of the crouch brothers is gettable. Why would Adelaide part with their 1st or 2nd best midfielder? Greenwood is gettable and would be worth a look.
To give it a little perspective: in 2004, arguably the strongest midfield we’ve ever had. We had Hayes, Harvey, Thompson, Ball & Dal Santo. Now let’s say Carlton did a dumbass trade with us that year and we had pick 1. Would you trade any of those players just because we were going to draft Deledio at 1?

We should definitely be having a crack at Martin tho

I like Jack Martin but he's not on the needs list to me. We really need some inside grunt.
 
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Are we still talking about letting stuv go to Geelong?
West coast need to give up something big to get Kelly off them you would think.
Would Shuey be interested in getting back to vic.?

Steven to Geelong
Kelly to west coast
Shuey to st.kilda.

Geelong lose
West Coast Win
Saints Win
 
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Geelong lose
West Coast Win
Saints Win
Fair call.
Steven has more runs on the board than Kelly, but no doubt Kelly has a few more years to give.
Should not the cats be happy to bring home the boy from Lorne who they have coveted for many years and also help Kelly get to his prefered destination in the process?
What if we throw in a late 2nd to Geelong?
 
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Fair call.
Steven has more runs on the board than Kelly, but no doubt Kelly has a few more years to give.
Should not the cats be happy to bring home the boy from Lorne who they have coveted for many years and also help Kelly get to his prefered destination in the process?
What if we throw in a late 2nd to Geelong?

Stuv is a point of difference with his pace too. I would think Stuv for Shuey is about right, Shuey is only a year younger than Stuv. Kelly is only wanting home and he's a way to get an elite player for losing an elite player who only wants to go to WA. If they don't win the premiership this year Geelong might decide to get Stuv and go all out.
 
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Stuv is a point of difference with his pace too. I would think Stuv for Shuey is about right, Shuey is only a year younger than Stuv. Kelly is only wanting home and he's a way to get an elite player for losing an elite player who only wants to go to WA. If they don't win the premiership this year Geelong might decide to get Stuv and go all out.
You should prefix that 2nd sentence with "all things being equal" or something like that. Because they're not. I don't know what Shuey's up to, but Stuv is at home watching old M.A.S.H reruns.
 
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Are we still talking about letting stuv go to Geelong?
West coast need to give up something big to get Kelly off them you would think.
Would Shuey be interested in getting back to vic.?

Steven to Geelong
Kelly to west coast
Shuey to st.kilda.
Shuey is 29 not the answer back to the draft.
 
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Im not even going to consider Coniglio or any other genuine A graders in our trade plans. They wont come so there's no point getting our hopes up.

Unfortunately, until we improve, and give those types of players a reason to come, we'll have to make do with those a level below. For me id be focussing all our efforts on getting Jack Martin. A bit under the radar here and he can get even better.

Im not really a fan of Zak Jones, id much rather we get the better Crouch brother from Adelaide to add much needed grunt to our midfield. Crows will likely pickup Rowell or Anderson in the draft to add to a pretty deep midfield group, so Crouch is gettable imo. And he wont cost the world.
Which one Matt or Brad?
 
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Shuey is 29 not the answer back to the draft.
Shuey is the same age as Steven.
If we are going to lose our best onballer, I'd prefer to replace him now than go to the draft. How's Clark and coff going this year? Ones that hit the ground running are few and really throw a dart to find one
 

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Its close, but i think Brad is the better player. Wins the ball, has great speed through the middle, massive tackler/pressure. Cleaner and more damaging with his disposals. Question marks on his body though, he's had some pretty serious injuries.
Why would either of them leave Adelaide? And why would the club let them go?
 
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