List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Thread

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I reckon calling Bytel before he's kicked a ball for us in any meaningful way and not much form line from the last couple of years, is a big call. I hope we don't go after Ben King, we really need to be getting good top 10 mids from the draft. It smacks of a feel good story over a rational football decision.
I hope someone is in charge of a strategy other than trading in trash B grade mids from other clubs and looking at another tall defender.

Two top 10 picks in all likelihood for Ben King who went at 12 sounds like one of those very St Kilda decisions.
Yep, completely agree on mids and there is opportunity cost too. Even 2 with something coming back is just wasting resources we could spend on more needed positions. Quite ok with our talls now. And if Bing leaves I’d be amazed if it’s anywhere other than here. Wait until he’s out of contract, maybe in 3.5 years time.
 

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I like Jack Martin but he's not on the needs list to me. We really need some inside grunt.
Jack Martin is not what we need.
All in all its a bit soon anyway with Clav and Ming yet to even debut. I hope we go hard at p1/2 this year and get a blue chip mid.
I could see Adelaide doing such a deal depending on the SA talent, particularly since last years kids cant get in the team atm.
It roughly works as our 2019/20 1st for picks 2 and 34ish and change. If Bytel comes on then I'd do it.
A 18 year old kid unless he is like a Judd is not going to help us much.. Someone like Walsh is doing well because they still have Cripps, Ed Curnow and Murphy to win the ball.. in our side, the 18 year old becomes the best mid right away. That’s the problem with Melbourne’s initial rebuild when they just had kids and not many mature players to help and support.. Ross is our oldest and most consistent mid at 26.. Steele is good but is more defensive minded.. That’s it.. everyone else is young and inconsistent. we don’t need kids now.. we need mature players that can help right away, maybe not established stars like Cogs because it’s difficult to get them, but we should try trade/Free agency as well as draft some VFL/WAFL/SAFL smokies to help.
 
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Jack Martin is not what we need.

A 18 year old kid unless he is like a Judd is not going to help us much.. Someone like Walsh is doing well because they still have Cripps, Ed Curnow and Murphy to win the ball.. in our side, the 18 year old becomes the best mid right away. That’s the problem with Melbourne’s initial rebuild when they just had kids and not many mature players to help and support.. Ross is our oldest and most consistent mid at 26.. Steele is good but is more defensive minded.. That’s it.. everyone else is young and inconsistent. we don’t need kids now.. we need mature players that can help right away, maybe not established stars like Cogs because it’s difficult to get them, but we should try trade/Free agency as well as draft some VFL/WAFL/SAFL smokies to help.
We have Hanners and Stuv too, I think we need to get young mids in the first round with elite potential. We are struggling to land a FA or trade in a mid of any quality. The only way to get the better ones is to draft them.
 
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Think we are 2-3 mature mids down to be competitive in the middle.. (Because Stevens retired, Jack Steven’s issues, Armitage’s back injury) we desperately need AFL players that can win their own ball and have proven to be able to rack up big numbers without being a star.. this gives Clark, Coffield, Bytel more time to mature their bodies and develop.. rather than sending them out to the wolves.. most AFL sides have matured midfield, our mids along with Gold Coast must be the youngest and least competitive midfield out there.. hard to be consistent when you don’t win the midfield battle.
 

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Planned for it to increase but not to go up as much as it did.

That’s the facts, not fussed whether you believe it or not.


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according to our club. i know for fact a bunch of clubs planned for it going up and by some margin. hence the buddy deal. people said how large his deal was but sydney said the growth in tv rights would ensure the salary cap goes up which would make the buddy deal seem small.

now trout/whomever may say it caught them off guard but that just shows they didn't read what others did and goes someway to explain why the list is the way it is right now.
 

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according to our club. i know for fact a bunch of clubs planned for it going up and by some margin. hence the buddy deal. people said how large his deal was but sydney said the growth in tv rights would ensure the salary cap goes up which would make the buddy deal seem small.

now trout/whomever may say it caught them off guard but that just shows they didn't read what others did and goes someway to explain why the list is the way it is right now.
I'm pretty sure the increase was larger than expected and came in earlier than expected.
 
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according to our club. i know for fact a bunch of clubs planned for it going up and by some margin. hence the buddy deal. people said how large his deal was but sydney said the growth in tv rights would ensure the salary cap goes up which would make the buddy deal seem small.

now trout/whomever may say it caught them off guard but that just shows they didn't read what others did and goes someway to explain why the list is the way it is right now.
I think you might be thinking of another Swans benefit for Buddy.
He went there in 2014.
The salary cap increased three years later in 2017.
An increase of 20% in that year.
Swannies administration might be good but they’re not that good to predict a 20% increase.
Wasn’t the Buddy deal the death of their COLA rort?
They also had some dodgy marketing deal happening too.
 
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I think you might be thinking of another Swans benefit for Buddy.
He went there in 2014.
The salary cap increased three years later in 2017.
An increase of 20% in that year.
Swannies administration might be good but they’re not that good to predict a 20% increase.
Wasn’t the Buddy deal the death of their COLA rort?
They also had some dodgy marketing deal happening too.

No they had been promising it for ages, I remember it too, the Swans used it as a way to justify the phenomenal contract offered to him.
 
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Jack Martin is not what we need.

A 18 year old kid unless he is like a Judd is not going to help us much.. Someone like Walsh is doing well because they still have Cripps, Ed Curnow and Murphy to win the ball.. in our side, the 18 year old becomes the best mid right away. That’s the problem with Melbourne’s initial rebuild when they just had kids and not many mature players to help and support.. Ross is our oldest and most consistent mid at 26.. Steele is good but is more defensive minded.. That’s it.. everyone else is young and inconsistent. we don’t need kids now.. we need mature players that can help right away, maybe not established stars like Cogs because it’s difficult to get them, but we should try trade/Free agency as well as draft some VFL/WAFL/SAFL smokies to help.
So you're proposing that we ignore the draft and trade all our picks? Coz we've kind of done that already by not having a second or third pick this year. Surely we should try and draft one elite midfielder with our high pick still until were playing finals at least? Top 2 looks pretty tasty this year and as l said, l think it would be gettable too. I think we'll find that if/when Hanners, Stuv, Gears and Snake are back in the side, we'll have some expendable cattle to work trades and do what you're saying, without preventing what l was saying.
 
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So you're proposing that we ignore the draft and trade all our picks? Coz we've kind of done that already by not having a second or third pick this year. Surely we should try and draft one elite midfielder with our high pick still until were playing finals at least? Top 2 looks pretty tasty this year and as l said, l think it would be gettable too. I think we'll find that if/when Hanners, Stuv, Gears and Snake are back in the side, we'll have some expendable cattle to work trades and do what you're saying, without preventing what l was saying.
To get good midfield help, you need to give up something, don’t think the players we mind losing has any value e.g. Dunstan.. let’s say if Ed Langdon or Matt Crouch wants to join, what can we offer in way of a trade? not much, so 1st round draft pick with maybe a second round pick coming back is one option.. anyway, the way Geelong picks up Parfit, Kelly, Constable with 2nd round picks, (and we picked up Bytel), there’s also value in 2nd round.. There’s genuine concern about Jack Steven’s health, so he is not gauranteed to return, Hannebury will be handy, but we are still short in number and quality.. I believe it all starts in the middle, boost the midfield quickly, we’ll be instant finalist.

2 options:
1. Trade for pick 2 (you will need to trade up, so it’ll be our 1st round + more)

vs

2. trading our 1st round for a 24-25 year old proven good mid + 2nd round pick back, and draft the best available mid..

I like option 2.. we are putting way to much value on high draft picks, I’d prefer help now + young mid as compared to a highly touted young mid who can’t help now and might not turn out to be the gun player we want.. it’s probability.
 
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I reckon calling Bytel before he's kicked a ball for us in any meaningful way and not much form line from the last couple of years, is a big call. I hope we don't go after Ben King, we really need to be getting good top 10 mids from the draft. It smacks of a feel good story over a rational football decision.
I hope someone is in charge of a strategy other than trading in trash B grade mids from other clubs and looking at another tall defender.

Two top 10 picks in all likelihood for Ben King who went at 12 sounds like one of those very St Kilda decisions.
Even Fergus Watt's only got one first rounder.
 

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To get good midfield help, you need to give up something, don’t think the players we mind losing has any value e.g. Dunstan.. let’s say if Ed Langdon or Matt Crouch wants to join, what can we offer in way of a trade? not much, so 1st round draft pick with maybe a second round pick coming back is one option.. anyway, the way Geelong picks up Parfit, Kelly, Constable with 2nd round picks, (and we picked up Bytel), there’s also value in 2nd round.. There’s genuine concern about Jack Steven’s health, so he is not gauranteed to return, Hannebury will be handy, but we are still short in number and quality.. I believe it all starts in the middle, boost the midfield quickly, we’ll be instant finalist.

2 options:
1. Trade for pick 2 (you will need to trade up, so it’ll be our 1st round + more)

vs

2. trading our 1st round for a 24-25 year old proven good mid + 2nd round pick back, and draft the best available mid..

I like option 2.. we are putting way to much value on high draft picks, I’d prefer help now + young mid as compared to a highly touted young mid who can’t help now and might not turn out to be the gun player we want.. it’s probability.
When we say Steven, Hanners, Steele, Ross, Billings, Gresham with the longer term hope of Clark, Coffield, Bytel it sounds ok.

But aside from the doubts on the first two (and the kids), it’s just got to be upgraded. We just need that gun or two. When it’s in that context, using one of our ‘goods’ to get the very good makes sense for me. Obviously if picks doesn’t do it.
 
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To get good midfield help, you need to give up something, don’t think the players we mind losing has any value e.g. Dunstan.. let’s say if Ed Langdon or Matt Crouch wants to join, what can we offer in way of a trade? not much, so 1st round draft pick with maybe a second round pick coming back is one option.. anyway, the way Geelong picks up Parfit, Kelly, Constable with 2nd round picks, (and we picked up Bytel), there’s also value in 2nd round.. There’s genuine concern about Jack Steven’s health, so he is not gauranteed to return, Hannebury will be handy, but we are still short in number and quality.. I believe it all starts in the middle, boost the midfield quickly, we’ll be instant finalist.

2 options:
1. Trade for pick 2 (you will need to trade up, so it’ll be our 1st round + more)

vs

2. trading our 1st round for a 24-25 year old proven good mid + 2nd round pick back, and draft the best available mid..

I like option 2.. we are putting way to much value on high draft picks, I’d prefer help now + young mid as compared to a highly touted young mid who can’t help now and might not turn out to be the gun player we want.. it’s probability.
I agree with you're logic and tactics 100%
I guess l have a different perspective is all. To use your Geelong analogy, they brought good kids into a strong team with a strong system, good leadership and stable club. If you put those guys into our team now, we'd still be sh1t, just maybe not so stinky, and Kelly would still be leaving after this year anyway. IMO you dont give up your top pick unless its to fill a vital piece of a premiership winning puzzle and we ain't there yet. Also, we're simply not attractive to good players atm. It's a thing. Players know it, managers know it, the industry knows it, the media know it. We love our club and view it through rose colored glasses, but thats just us unfortunately...
 
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When we say Steven, Hanners, Steele, Ross, Billings, Gresham with the longer term hope of Clark, Coffield, Bytel it sounds ok.

But aside from the doubts on the first two (and the kids), it’s just got to be upgraded. We just need that gun or two. When it’s in that context, using one of our ‘goods’ to get the very good makes sense for me. Obviously if picks doesn’t do it.

It's just not really going to happen though, no one is going to swap a gun for an okay player.
 
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It's just not really going to happen though, no one is going to swap a gun for an okay player.
Ha ha, with extras obviously Gringo! It might be the top pick. And obviously it has to be circumstantial - the player wants out or along those lines as the opposition won’t want to lose a very good player. But the gist is we don’t need extra depth.
 
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Ha ha, with extras obviously Gringo! It might be the top pick. And obviously it has to be circumstantial - the player wants out or along those lines as the opposition won’t want to lose a very good player. But the gist is we don’t need extra depth.

In hindsight guys like Rowan and Dahlhaus ended up top players in a strong list. Maybe reviving a few bored good players might still get us best 22 players. Our best bet for a star is to keep discreetly offering big money to FAs like Coniglio. If they don't come get guys that would improve us .
 

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I think you might be thinking of another Swans benefit for Buddy.
He went there in 2014.
The salary cap increased three years later in 2017.
An increase of 20% in that year.
Swannies administration might be good but they’re not that good to predict a 20% increase.
Wasn’t the Buddy deal the death of their COLA rort?
They also had some dodgy marketing deal happening too.
nope. bloke who did the Alistair Lynch deal did the Buddy deal. commented about how the cap would go up. Buddy's deal gets more expensive the longer it goes. to the point he will be paid the most he has ever been paid in the last year of his contract when we very well could be sitting on the couch watching them play. so he wasn't just forecasting the most recent increase. he was forecasting every increase after.

Port Adelaide were planned on the cap going up. what they got caught out on was the CBA delay. which meant they had to rejig contracts, until it got cleared. then they loaded up again. they saw it coming.

WCE similar boat.

all publicly commented that they had forecast the cap going up.

so this idea that we were hard done by because of some unforeseen event is sad really. if that truly was the line coming out of the club then you can see why the administration would be filthy with the list management. it's just an excuse. a really bad one. it was the job of the list manager to see where the TPP was going. if we got caught out, then that's on us. hopefully that doesn't happen moving forward.
 
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I reckon calling Bytel before he's kicked a ball for us in any meaningful way and not much form line from the last couple of years, is a big call. I hope we don't go after Ben King, we really need to be getting good top 10 mids from the draft. It smacks of a feel good story over a rational football decision.
I hope someone is in charge of a strategy other than trading in trash B grade mids from other clubs and looking at another tall defender.

Two top 10 picks in all likelihood for Ben King who went at 12 sounds like one of those very St Kilda decisions.
I've figured it out. Mikka is the barista in the cafe at linton st. Gets the goss from everyone, and everyone loves coffee..
 
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The thing l don't get about this place, is that improving your worst player makes the team better as a whole, yet everyone is obsessed with unobtainable fantasies.
Dean Kent is an upgrade on Mav. Thats a win, yet where are the plaudits? If this guy is better than our worst player then we should get him on principle and l can't even conceive a reason not to tbh. Maybe I'm ECO'd....:pensive:
 
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