List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[sunny3193]

"derelict"? But it was reasonably foreseeable - that's the definition of an expense. Over a long enough period it always increases. If they were accounting correctly they should have had an annual provision for the amount of the average annual increase. The 20% bump would have been in line with that.

No B.
It’s not that simple.
A club’s employment cost exposure is driven by Salary Cap rules (plus AFL prescribed marketing benefits).
This is the summation of the employee contract costs.
So if Sydney committed to employment costs 20% higher in 2017 than 2016, and they did so three years prior, they would have needed to start that work in 2014 because of the way the player contracts roll over.
Bit embarrassing to arrive in 2017 with a contracted wages bill that is 20% more than 2016, then find out you don’t have the revenue (AFL fully funded) to pay it.
That’s independent of being blown out of the water wrt the Salary Cap.

Accruals/Provisions are not applicable here because: (1) we are talking actual $’s paid vs some theoretical value and (2) not consistent with Accounting Matching/Realization standards.

It’s much more likely/reasonable that the forecast 20% was spread over the five years of the CBA.
Hence, a 4% variation in that first year.
Much easier to manage.

If you want a boring accounting response, please PM me.
I guarantee you that it will be boring tho.

 

[StCicatriz]

It wasn't 20% in year 1. It was 20% over two years. The CBA was delayed by a year...

No B.
It’s not that simple.
A club’s employment cost exposure is driven by Salary Cap rules (plus AFL prescribed marketing benefits).
This is the summation of the employee contract costs.
So if Sydney committed to employment costs 20% higher in 2017 than 2016, and they did so three years prior, they would have needed to start that work in 2014 because of the way the player contracts roll over.
Bit embarrassing to arrive in 2017 with a contracted wages bill that is 20% more than 2016, then find out you don’t have the revenue (AFL fully funded) to pay it.
That’s independent of being blown out of the water wrt the Salary Cap.

Accruals/Provisions are not applicable here because: (1) we are talking actual $’s paid vs some theoretical value and (2) not consistent with Accounting Matching/Realization standards.

It’s much more likely/reasonable that the forecast 20% was spread over the five years of the CBA.
Hence, a 4% variation in that first year.
Much easier to manage.

If you want a boring accounting response, please PM me.
I guarantee you that it will be boring tho.

 

[DGontheQT]

We have one pick in the top 60

Now that is downright depressing .... one pick !

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure about that. There are plenty of examples of clubs getting in FA's and it working the other way. The issue with North is that they've been relying on their older players for years and have very little quality youth coming through.



We have one pick in the top 60 so getting a decent FA makes even more sense.

As you said yourself, we will miss out on blue chip players, but I am sure we are having a crack just like we have for the last few years.

Rowan and Dahlhouse would have to be two good examples.

 

[sunny3193]

It wasn't 20% in year 1. It was 20% over two years. The CBA was delayed by a year...

EOS.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-20/afl-players-score-big-in-1.84-billion-dollar-pay-deal/8635046

 

[DGontheQT]

Rowan and Dahlhouse would have to be two good examples.

Yep. My point earlier that I didn't explain well , was if you are going to pay big money to Free Agents , they should be more consistent performers like Dalhouse , rather than those like Aaron Hall who are super inconsistent. Gary Rohan's previous inconsistency could be attributed to injuries.
I am just fixated on getting A grade midfielders in anyway we can. We read that there are two standout mids , then a massive drop off in draft talent this year. With two teams known for tanking currently down the bottom , perhaps the AFL can do one of their "rules on the run" , and bring in a Draft Lottery this year (wishful thinking)

 

[gringo2011]

Yep. My point earlier that I didn't explain well , was if you are going to pay big money to Free Agents , they should be more consistent performers like Dalhouse , rather than those like Aaron Hall who are super inconsistent. Gary Rohan's previous inconsistency could be attributed to injuries.
I am just fixated on getting A grade midfielders in anyway we can. We read that there are two standout mids , then a massive drop off in draft talent this year. With two teams known for tanking currently down the bottom , perhaps the AFL can do one of their "rules on the run" , and bring in a Draft Lottery this year (wishful thinking)

I think North just put too many new faces in at once, it unsettled their line up. Having GOPs wasn't their issue, they lacked high end talent like us. They pulled in 3 fast outside runners and now seem to have stuffed the balance up. They would look a lot better with Waite in the side, he's really messed with forward entry and now Brown its double teamed and is a sole target. Hall at Geelong would be a better player than Hall at North.

Rowan makes you wonder if we have any players that are so shackled by system that they are not showing their best. He looks so much better now that he's an offensive forward rather than a defensive forward.

 

[t_94]

I'm going early here, but l reckon Seb is hot favorite for most likely to be traded out.
He'll be replaced by Hanners outright.

Silly in my opinion. He is good when he isnt the best midfielder. Need to add someone better, not trade out the best current midfielder. Especially if Steven isn't coming back.

 

[bird_man]

Silly in my opinion. He is good when he isnt the best midfielder. Need to add someone better, not trade out the best current midfielder. Especially if Steven isn't coming back.

Agree 100%
And even if we do somehow manage to get the signature of a gun midfielder, there is absolutely no need to trade out Ross. We have a first round pick this year and next to use as currency.

 

[Munga]

Throw the bank at Whitfield, Taranto, Kelly, Bontempelli etc etc, guys that are actually worth 900k.... and Hardwick!

 

[Mikka84]

Wonder what Whitfield would ( wwww ) command on the open market after the year he’s having.. I’d give my third leg for him.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Wonder what Whitfield would ( wwww ) command on the open market after the year he’s having.. I’d give my third leg for him.

Deserves more than Shiel that's for sure.

 

[StCicatriz]

EOS.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-20/afl-players-score-big-in-1.84-billion-dollar-pay-deal/8635046

again i know that, you're repeating the same facts like it's something new. i still don't understand why you think people didn't see the large increase coming. there's is nothing to suggest they didn't, if anything given the public comments from Port Adelaide, Sydney and WCE, they appear to have planned for it.

what the article doesn't say is that in CBA expired at the end of 2016. there was no resolution during 2016 for the CBA and the cap remained the same. an agreement was only found during the 2017 season, but the cap didn't go up until the following season. this caught people off guard and is one reason why port were salary cap constrained during 2017. so although 20% looks big on paper, its actually spread over two seasons, as 2017 should have been the first year the cap went up. from there, you had marginal increases.

what many clubs did was ensure they didn't write in any wage increase based on the cap increasing. other's didn't. so for example some player contracts had an automatic pay increase factored in based on a % of the cap going up. others didn't, it was fixed, this meant they were able to bank further room in the cap. port is one example of this. they kept their player contracts to the current cap, so when the cap went up, they banked further room. then they went on a spending spree.

this is explained in the article you quoted:

The pay increase will come into effect immediately for players who have a clause in their current contract tying their wage to the bargaining agreement, which is about 50 per cent of them.

if you are looking for things that cost us. the failure to utilise the banking mechanism due to poor onfield performance had a greater impact. rather than anything other clubs or the AFL did. all our issues stem back to poor onfield results. cap going up or not, you still need to attract those players. players rarely leave and if they do its almost always to a club that is playing finals or has a record of doing so. we didn't have that.

 

[Mikka84]

The most St Kilda thing to happen at the end of the year:
Steven retires and we get nothing.
Bolton gets the sack and we lose Rats.
We don’t sign Billings and he leaves

 

[Mowman]

The most St Kilda thing to happen at the end of the year:
Steven retires and we get nothing.
Bolton gets the sack and we lose Rats.
We don’t sign Billings and he leaves

Oh FFS

 

[gringo2011]

Wonder what Whitfield would ( wwww ) command on the open market after the year he’s having.. I’d give my third leg for him.

He's turned into a gun but unfortunately on a back flank, he was an okay winger but really plays best off half back. I want some inside grunt.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

He's turned into a gun but unfortunately on a back flank, he was an okay winger but really plays best off half back. I want some inside grunt.

Cripps and one of Whitfield or Kelly would do. But need both. Not asking much.

 

[Sab22]

Who'd give up a late first for Acres though? He'll be 24 at the end of the year and he's averaging 15 touches. He's a possibility to be dropped so on the way he's going.

Lucky to get a 3rd

 

[ScrappyDo]

Silly in my opinion. He is good when he isnt the best midfielder. Need to add someone better, not trade out the best current midfielder. Especially if Steven isn't coming back.

I'm not expecting much love on this one to be sure. But l look at the value proposition for traidbait, and I'm telling y'all, it's Seb... Happy to be wrong if it works out as so, but so far I'm in front for early calls and l reckon this one's got legs. We'll see what happens, but I've got a feeling bones about this one. I was right about Richo after all...

 

[bergholt]

The most St Kilda thing to happen at the end of the year:
Steven retires and we get nothing.
Bolton gets the sack and we lose Rats.
We don’t sign Billings and he leaves

What about Winx's second ACL?

 

[L_W_P]

I know it sounds crazy but I think the club should seriously talk to Carlisle about going to play for a contender and getting back a solid pick for him. I just don't see anyone else on the list that holds any kind of trade value.

What would the Cats pay to have Carlisle replace a retired Harry Taylor at the end of this year? What would the Giants pay to pair him up with Phil Davis? Or West Coast with McGovern?

Pump games into Austin, Clav & Wilkie and start Biggie at FB/CHB. Brown can go round another year as a 'horses for courses' or 'Break in case of emergency' type.

That said, we tend to get burned a bit on the trades. We love RoMa but how much better would our team have been over the last couple of years with McEvoy in the ruck and Stanley at CHF & pinch hitting? Hindsight is 20/20 and all that...

 

[Mikka84]

What about Winx's second ACL?

Wowee. You went there. I’d officially check out of football life.

 

[bird_man]

Another good game for Brandon Ellis yesterday.

He's be a very handy pick up for nothing.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I know it sounds crazy but I think the club should seriously talk to Carlisle about going to play for a contender and getting back a solid pick for him. I just don't see anyone else on the list that holds any kind of trade value.

What would the Cats pay to have Carlisle replace a retired Harry Taylor at the end of this year? What would the Giants pay to pair him up with Phil Davis? Or West Coast with McGovern?

Pump games into Austin, Clav & Wilkie and start Biggie at FB/CHB. Brown can go round another year as a 'horses for courses' or 'Break in case of emergency' type.

That said, we tend to get burned a bit on the trades. We love RoMa but how much better would our team have been over the last couple of years with McEvoy in the ruck and Stanley at CHF & pinch hitting? Hindsight is 20/20 and all that...

I some what agree, i dont think jake is the difference between us being a good side or a great side and if we got overs id take it , Not sure many would be interested though but Stanley vs Roma is a non contest , Roma has that softie covered in just about every aspect , he was no loss.
Biggie has to get drafted first and from all reports is miles off it

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not expecting much love on this one to be sure. But l look at the value proposition for traidbait, and I'm telling y'all, it's Seb... Happy to be wrong if it works out as so, but so far I'm in front for early calls and l reckon this one's got legs. We'll see what happens, but I've got a feeling bones about this one. I was right about Richo after all...

But what would you trade him for. We can’t draft so that would put us back 5 to 10 years and he’s not going to net us a gun in a swap. Every player we let go does well elsewhere and we blow the pick on a speculative kid who busts.