List Mgmt. 2019 Draft Prospects

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Euku

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Sep 20, 2019
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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
I think nearly everyone would pick kemp but our forward line looks better with weightman especially with jamarra coming in kemp doesnt really have a place in the forward line , and i feel we wanted developing players (not including weightman) as our age profile is so young and depth in all positions is quite strong
 

TedDougChris

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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
Perhaps the club thought it was too risky to get Kemp and Garcia - both coming off ACL’s ??
 

doggie dog

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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
I was pumped when Kemp fell, and super bummed when we didn't draft him.
Pre injury he was top 5. High skill level and has been deployed to play all over the park with great success. Fwd/ back and midfield, even with reduced athleticism i would of still picked him. Kemp has the it factor.
Robertson was my next option followed by worrell/weightman.
I don't know why weightman was chosen, our fwd line was the most effective i have seen in ages at the back half of the season and we just added bruce.
If our fwd lines continues our rich vein of form in 2020 we shouldn't mess with it, weightman is just depth. Can he play outside of the fwd line?
 

dogwatch

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I wonder how much 'life' in the locker room has influenced recruiters too. Weightman is a high energy, bubbly guy and Garcia too. We lost Biggs, Redpath and Dahlhaus who were big personalities off field.
Good point.

Things like injury/rehab approach, attitude, leadership, work ethic, etc are aspects that the club would take into account when deciding who to select but we on BF mostly decide on "best available" just by looking at video clips and stats sheets.
 

dogwatch

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I was pumped when Kemp fell, and super bummed when we didn't draft him.
Pre injury he was top 5. High skill level and has been deployed to play all over the park with great success. Fwd/ back and midfield, even with reduced athleticism i would of still picked him. Kemp has the it factor.
Robertson was my next option followed by worrell/weightman.
I don't know why weightman was chosen, our fwd line was the most effective i have seen in ages at the back half of the season and we just added bruce.
If our fwd lines continues our rich vein of form in 2020 we shouldn't mess with it, weightman is just depth. Can he play outside of the fwd line?
So do you have any idea why the club's preferences were different to yours?
 

doggie dog

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Another good selection could have been Worrell, with a mature age small forward at our later pick to cover that need. But I think Weightman was an obvious, safe, good value choice.
with a 1st round pick you have to choose the player with the most talent. The Bont will be special wherever your put him.
As good as Dunkley is in the mid you can't play him up fwd.
I'd rather have the problem of too much talent than not enough.
If weightman can't get a gig in our very effective fwd line, where else can he play?
 

Yojimbo

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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
The whole notion of "Best Available" does my head in, I do not know where this mystical beast lives, but
surely if there is such a thing then Tom Gribble the VFL clear B & F winner gets drafted as he defeated a
multitude of AFL listed players including Rhylee West and what about Luke Partington winner of the B&F
in the SANFL the Magarey Medal surely he deserves a spot as a former West Coast Eagle who went away
and worked on his weaknesses. Last, but not least we have Angus Baker the NEAFL Rising Star winner
who led the MVP until the last round, Tom Green was nominated for the rising star, but he did not win it
Angus Baker did with his 30 Possession season average and his six marks a game. So to sum up what
does "Best Available" really mean because these three players have shown they were the best against
men not boys. The draft is a cheap glorification of the junior pathways and nothing more, rant over.

Cody Weightman: Draft Central Rating- 15 to 30
Louis Butler: Draft Central Rating- Third to Fourth round
Riley Garcia: Draft Central Rating- Third round onwards
The Yojimbo rankings were group 3, group 6, group 6, which corresponds with our picks.
 

doggie dog

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So do you have any idea why the club's preferences were different to yours?
im not saying my preferences count for anything it just my opinion, i aint a professional recuiter. This is what this forum is for. To talk to other doggy fans.
I only review the power rankings, videos available and information from scouts about top 20 players.
This doesn't include player personal attributes which I'm not privy to.
Maybe kemp didn't stack up, but his talent looked undeniable to any casual footy fan.
One of the most famous picking for needs was the 1984 NBA draft.
Portland was picking for needs and they had a great guard but they chose a center(position of need)
They passed on Michael Jordan.
Dont read into that example that Kemp is going to be equal Jordan, but it means get in as much talent as you can.
Work out the small stuff later through trades and later picks.
 

Mojorisin

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I rated Robertson best available, but the club disagreed and quite a few other clubs did too given he slipped outside the first round.

I wonder how much 'life' in the locker room has influenced recruiters too. Weightman is a high energy, bubbly guy and Garcia too. We lost Biggs, Redpath and Dahlhaus who were big personalities off field.
Personality wise weightman reminds me alot of Jack Higgins which I'm really happy with. As you say the life that breathes into the team is immeasurable and extremely important, like only libba, Gowers and Greene have from our current list
 

LittleG

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Weight man would have been 5th on my board at our pick. Kemp easily the top of that board but Gould not far behind. I wanted either to be groomed for a defensive half role.

But IF you look at our team and see where a new draftee could cement a role, it is as a small forward. No where else on the field is the opportunity so great.

I like the clubs decision but hate that we spent a first round pick on a small forward.... first round picks should be spent on the premium positions, midfield/kpp.... but in saying that, apart from medium/KP defender, I didn’t see an available spot for any of the other available players in our team for 2020/2021.

Upgrading the small forward options from an overlooked mature age prospect, to a first round prospect, is smart business. The other role we need is a winger and none of the other top 5 would fit that role.
 

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Pugz89

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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
Hundred per cent we reached for him. Power all but said otherwise when he said we wanted to fill the small forward hole. Whether there was much difference between Weightman and others is up for debate but reading inbetween the lines when all the talk was between Weightman and Pickett was that we were determined to fill the small forward hole on our list early in the draft.
 

Dannnnnnnnnn

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I don't know why weightman was chosen, our fwd line was the most effective i have seen in ages at the back half of the season and we just added bruce.
In order to score that way we had to make defensive sacrifices. Without doing so our offence is not potent enough (see 2018). In my opinion the hope is that addressing our forward potency will allow us to be more conservative in the back half, thereby increasing our defensive output without harming our goal scoring ability.
 

doggie dog

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In order to score that way we had to make defensive sacrifices. Without doing so our offence is not potent enough (see 2018). In my opinion the hope is that addressing our forward potency will allow us to be more conservative in the back half, thereby increasing our defensive output without harming our goal scoring ability.
let us forget the 2018 fwd line... even the early 2019 fwd line where we lost to GC, we couldn't kick a goal to save ourselves.
We are also going to be potentially adding the no 1 draft pick to our fwd line, that's going to be two 1st round draft picks on a already very good fwd line.
My only concern was that we didn't completely address our failings getting by mauled by the plastics. We were over powered in the ruck and tall backs. Keith was a great pick up to address this but what is his status post surgery. Is it a full recovery?
As you say, hopefully with a potent fwd line the dogs dont have to take so many risks moving the ball out of the back half.
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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let us forget the 2018 fwd line... even the early 2019 fwd line where we lost to GC, we couldn't kick a goal to save ourselves.
We are also going to be potentially adding the no 1 draft pick to our fwd line, that's going to be two 1st round draft picks on a already very good fwd line.
My only concern was that we didn't completely address our failings getting by mauled by the plastics. We were over powered in the ruck and tall backs. Keith was a great pick up to address this but what is his status post surgery. Is it a full recovery?
As you say, hopefully with a potent fwd line the dogs dont have to take so many risks moving the ball out of the back half.
You might need to watch that final again. English did fine in the ruck and was one of our better players, Young made a few errors but that's expected for a defender with just over a dozen games under his belt, and that was probably Cordy's best game of the year. We lost that in the middle (47 v 35 clearances, 76 v 37 inside 50s). Our defence actually did sort of alright considering the volume of inside 50s. Bont and Hunter got tagged out of it and Dunkley had his worst game in a while. Throw in Libba and a Smith with a preseason and we'll do better.
 

Virgin Dog

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I don't know how he tested, but he certainly plays quick, real quick. He was starting a bit behind most draftees but had some really impressive moments at VFL level. Just has 'something' that looks like it would translate well to AFL level. Still has work to do but that high forward/wing role would suit him as he'd really add outside speed to our side.
Not sure if you watched any of his draft videos, but he seriously looked like close to a JJ clone, even down to his running style when taking off. For run and carry, he looks like he could be a seriously good player
 

Virgin Dog

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You might need to watch that final again. English did fine in the ruck and was one of our better players, Young made a few errors but that's expected for a defender with just over a dozen games under his belt, and that was probably Cordy's best game of the year. We lost that in the middle (47 v 35 clearances, 76 v 37 inside 50s). Our defence actually did sort of alright considering the volume of inside 50s. Bont and Hunter got tagged out of it and Dunkley had his worst game in a while. Throw in Libba and a Smith with a preseason and we'll do better.
Have to agree - defence was absolutely not the problem. Our more experienced guys who we'd usually rely on (Bont, Hunter especially) had absolute stinkers, and we were uncharacteristically poor out of the middle. There were poor players all over the field - Richards, Hayes, Dale, etc. but overall, it really did come down to the lack of contribution from Bont, Hunter and Dunkley. If we're going to rely on key players so much, then it's inevitable that we'll fall down when these guys are shut out. A fit and firing Libba, plus a more developed Smith, would make a world of difference
 

Yojimbo

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Have to agree - defence was absolutely not the problem. Our more experienced guys who we'd usually rely on (Bont, Hunter especially) had absolute stinkers, and we were uncharacteristically poor out of the middle. There were poor players all over the field - Richards, Hayes, Dale, etc. but overall, it really did come down to the lack of contribution from Bont, Hunter and Dunkley. If we're going to rely on key players so much, then it's inevitable that we'll fall down when these guys are shut out. A fit and firing Libba, plus a more developed Smith, would make a world of difference
Round 22 versus GWS: Win
389 Possessions to 358 possessions, contested possession Win. V.O.S.S = 31

Elimination Final versus GWS: Loss
319 Possessions to 395 possessions, contested possession Loss. V.O.S.S = 15

They got players back and deflated "The Bubble Of Excellence" will a fit Ward and Coniglio make a difference ?

Sorry not really draft related, I know, apologies.
 
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bobs head soup

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Who thinks we went for need over "best available" when we selected Weightman? By that I don't just mean who you thought was best, but who the club assessed as best available (something we may never know with any certainty). Or to put it another way, do you think we "reached" for need in this draft?

Was Kemp best available? And if so, how much should having a ruptured ACL alter that judgement? Presumably they do some sort of risk assessment on such cases. It's interesting that having passed on Kemp we then traded up late in the draft to pick a kid who has just done his ACL. My guess is we're more inclined to take the risk with a late pick rather than a first rounder.

Was anyone else still available who we might have thought was better than Weightman? Worrell perhaps? Robertson?

I'm comfortable with our pick (but would have been OK if we'd decided on Kemp too). And judging from pre-draft discussions it seems that most on this board would have rated Kemp or Weightman the best of those left at pick 15.
Most draft watchers had Weightman ranked in the 10-20 range, so it seems fair to conclude that we haven't reached dramatically in terms of quality.

On the other hand, the 3 players we were consistently rumoured to have put a lot of work into were Weightman, Pickett and Bergman.

Considering that, you'd have to say we were drafting somewhat for needs rather than a purely best available evaluation.
 

doggie dog

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You might need to watch that final again. English did fine in the ruck and was one of our better players, Young made a few errors but that's expected for a defender with just over a dozen games under his belt, and that was probably Cordy's best game of the year. We lost that in the middle (47 v 35 clearances, 76 v 37 inside 50s). Our defence actually did sort of alright considering the volume of inside 50s. Bont and Hunter got tagged out of it and Dunkley had his worst game in a while. Throw in Libba and a Smith with a preseason and we'll do better.
whoa there champ we are on the same team, sorry if i offended.
What i saw was Timmy getting out muscled by an old coke head, when he should of run him around the ground to wear him out.
I seen the gws midfield getting the ball tapped down their throats, where our midfield had to track back to gain possession thus getting tackled.
I also seen due to the large number of fwd entries, our backs throwing the ball on the boot out of desperation which led to more repeat entries, lacking composure in moving the ball out of defence.
It will be fantastic to have libber back for some mongrel, we could do with a few more players like him. We can never let the bont get manhandled like that ever again.
 

stefoid

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Drafting does need to be wholistic, you cant just keep blindly banging the best performed mids onto your list every year. The aim is to have the best list, not the most draft pick 'hits'. Sure, in theory you turn excess draft 'hits' into trade currency to fill out your list. In practice, good luck with that.

On the flipside, you dont pass on a potential superstar of any type to draft a role player.

Kemp a potential superstar? Weightman just a role player? WTFWIK? Talent identification can make any policy look like genius or stupidity.
 

Mofra

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Kemp a potential superstar? Weightman just a role player? WTFWIK? Talent identification can make any policy look like genius or stupidity.
Yep.
IF (a big IF) Weightman plays like Jamie Elliott, he is in no way a 'role player'. Elliott on song is a game changer.
Posters were considering trading a first rounder plus change for Papley.

Let's give Flea a chance before we start calling him just a role player.
 

Triple Baileys

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Yep.
IF (a big IF) Weightman plays like Jamie Elliott, he is in no way a 'role player'. Elliott on song is a game changer.
Posters were considering trading a first rounder plus change for Papley.

Let's give Flea a chance before we start calling him just a role player.
Absolutely. He could be a star.
 
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