List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[GC2015]

They must be getting nervous in Carlton now.
Its amazing how Martin went from “he’s not worth a used brown tea bag lol” by a Carlton fan on twitter with a stack of likes and no Carlton fan calling out the racism to him now being a much needed million dollar a year player.
It’s becoming clearer our players are fine with him returning and we have the cap space.

I'm not completely opposed to re-drafting Martin as long as we plan to trade him out this time next year for proper compensation and we then use that cap space to secure Crouch for free through free agency. Don't forget Ablett won our best and fairest award 12 months after requesting a trade back to Geelong so it's entirely possible for a player to have a good year after requesting a trade away. It almost takes a move like this to prove to other AFL clubs that we won't be bent over at the trade table anymore and that rival clubs need to pony up if they want our players. GWS have done a fantastic job of extracting maximum value for their players at the trade table and I really feel we need to start doing the same.

Having said that, I'm still expecting us to pass on him by the time the PSD rolls around.

 

[OB11]

Some people don't quite understand.

Martin would get $2m over 2 years if we signed him in PSD based on his reported terms put out in the media.

Martin would not have to commit to only $300k for years 3-5 of a contract for the Suns. That is the reported subsequent deal he is prepared to do with the Blues to make it palatable for the Blues.

Paying a guy $1m who hasn't provided elite production is how we got into salary cap hell in the first place.

 

[OB11]

I'm not completely opposed to re-drafting Martin as long as we plan to trade him out this time next year for proper compensation and we then use that cap space to secure Crouch for free through free agency. Don't forget Ablett won our best and fairest award 12 months after requesting a trade back to Geelong so it's entirely possible for a player to have a good year after requesting a trade away. It almost takes a move like this to prove to other AFL clubs that we won't be bent over at the trade table anymore and that rival clubs need to pony up if they want our players. GWS have done a fantastic job of extracting maximum value for their players at the trade table and I really feel we need to start doing the same.

Having said that, I'm still expecting us to pass on him by the time the PSD rolls around.

If he plays like he did this year with $1m a year contract, we would have to attach a draft pick to get out of that deal next year.

 

[Greendogg]

I think Alex witherden is incredibly overrated.

I'm not completely opposed to re-drafting Martin as long as we plan to trade him out this time next year for proper compensation and we then use that cap space to secure Crouch for free through free agency. Don't forget Ablett won our best and fairest award 12 months after requesting a trade back to Geelong so it's entirely possible for a player to have a good year after requesting a trade away. It almost takes a move like this to prove to other clubs in the AFL that we won't be bent over at the trade table anymore and that rival clubs need to pony up if they want our players.

Having said that, I'm still expecting us to pass on him by the time the PSD rolls around.

Agree with all of this except I get a feeling that these new power brokers at the Sun's want to zig when everyone else has zagged.. I think most people here and in the wider football community think we will not redraft Martin just because it rarely gets done... But times are changing, Fu"K convention! If we keep doing things the same way (ie following a conventional course) then we keep getting the same results. We need to back ourselves in, redraft this fool and push on towards being an elite club, not towards mediocrity. You can't become elite by playing it safe.
It's been covered but it makes perfect sense to me to pay Jack Martin a million dollars next year.. a 2017 Jack Martin added to our projected best 22 actually makes us pretty dangerous too.

 

[NOBBYS]

As a local business person would I significantly increase the salary of a staff member whose performed below par to stop them going
to another business . No way.
Common sense will prevail ,Martin will become a blue.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Some people don't quite understand.

Martin would get $2m over 2 years if we signed him in PSD based on his reported terms put out in the media.

Martin would not have to commit to only $300k for years 3-5 of a contract for the Suns. That is the reported subsequent deal he is prepared to do with the Blues to make it palatable for the Blues.

Paying a guy $1m who hasn't provided elite production is how we got into salary cap hell in the first place.

There are a lot of good players OOC end of next year
Grundy, De Gory, Brad Crouch, Luke Ryan, Mitch Duncan, Lachie Whitfield, Bayley Fritsch, Jayden Short, Jack Steele, George Hewett, Hayden Crozier just a handful of them.

If we improve and people consider us a viable destination - I want to have some cash to target some of them.

 

[GC2015]

Some people don't quite understand.

Martin would get $2m over 2 years if we signed him in PSD based on his reported terms put out in the media.

Martin would not have to commit to only $300k for years 3-5 of a contract for the Suns. That is the reported subsequent deal he is prepared to do with the Blues to make it palatable for the Blues.

Paying a guy $1m who hasn't provided elite production is how we got into salary cap hell in the first place.

How much cap space do we have right now? If we were seriously considering Crouch's $800k+ contract AFTER securing Brandon Ellis then surely we have enough to cover Martin's demands. I'm not an expert on the salary cap system but my understanding is you can go over the cap (105%) for a year or two if you manage things correctly. What I'm saying is, if we have the cap space sitting there and there are genuine benefits to re-drafting him, why not do it? At the very least it shows we aren't pushovers at the trade table anymore and what do we actually lose by re-drafting him? I'm sure his contract can be adjusted this time next year so the team getting him won't have to pay $1 million for his services in 2021.

 

[OB11]

In terms of the draft I think the best fit around 15 for us would be Trent Rivers - at 188cm he can play 4th defender (Luko is playing as an oversized 4th defender in 2020 but as he gets stronger and our ball movement forward of centre improves he should progress to 2nd/3rd tall forward).

Also with Hanley probably on his last legs we could use a replacement in that position.

Also has ability to develop into a well rounded tall balanced/outside midfielder which with Anderson and Bowes would be an excellent combination.

At 20 I would be happy to get a good future asset (1st Rd pick) or trade down for an OK future asset (2nd Rd pick equivalent) and a slight downgrade of pick 20 to a pick in the mid-late 20s - take one of who is left of Mahoney, Williams, Schoenberg, Bianco, Day, Gould, Pickett.

 

[OB11]

It's been covered but it makes perfect sense to me to pay Jack Martin a million dollars next year.. a 2017 Jack Martin added to our projected best 22 actually makes us pretty dangerous too.

Greendogg, you are a great man, but are you drunk?

 

[Jirik13]

Martin would not have to commit to only $300k for years 3-5 of a contract for the Suns. That is the reported subsequent deal he is prepared to do with the Blues to make it palatable for the Blues.

Nial from the Age and others reported that Martin nominated 5 year contract, not 2 year contract.

 

[OB11]

How much cap space do we have right now? If we were seriously considering Crouch's $800k+ contract AFTER securing Brandon Ellis then surely we have enough to cover Martin's demands. I'm not an expert on the salary cap system but my understanding is you can go over the cap (105%) for a year or two if you manage things correctly. What I'm saying is, if we have the cap space sitting there and there are genuine benefits to re-drafting him, why not do it? At the very least it shows we aren't pushovers at the trade table anymore and what do we actually lose by re-drafting him? I'm sure his contract can be adjusted this time next year so the team getting him won't have to pay $1 million for his services in 2021.

Martin can hold us to the $1m contract if we want to get rid of him, and we could end up paying him $500k to play somewhere else next year.

It's like the story the Emperor's new clothes. Was I the only one who watched him play like dogshit last year or was I dreaming?

 

[OB11]

Nial from the Age reported that Martin nominated 5 year contract, not 2 year contract.

I'd like to know the exact wording of what the nominated deal is. As putting the last 3 years as cheap on the deal rather than a subsequent extension is counter intuitive in scaring away suitors.

 

[Greendogg]

Greendogg, you are a great man, but are you drunk?

It's 11 o'clock in the morning!! I'm only on the beers, oh and bourbon.
But I am only basing this opinion on the first report I heard which was a million for the first year only of the five year deal.
If it's the first two years then all bets are off.

 

[GC2015]

Martin can hold us to the $1m contract if we want to get rid of him, and we could end up paying him $500k to play somewhere else next year.

It's like the story the Emperor's new clothes. Was I the only one who watched him play like dogshit last year or was I dreaming?

He certainly was not a million dollar player in 2019 (far from it, actually) but I also think this situation is an excellent opportunity for us to make a stand. If we go this far and then back out at the last minute then other clubs know they'll be able to do this to us again. It's highly unethical on their part but they don't care about that.

Are we ever going to follow through with our claims or are we just going to forever be the club that blinks first?

 

[gcsunsfc]

How much cap space do we have right now? If we were seriously considering Crouch's $800k+ contract AFTER securing Brandon Ellis then surely we have enough to cover Martin's demands. I'm not an expert on the salary cap system but my understanding is you can go over the cap (105%) for a year or two if you manage things correctly. What I'm saying is, if we have the cap space sitting there and there are genuine benefits to re-drafting him, why not do it? At the very least it shows we aren't pushovers at the trade table anymore and what do we actually lose by re-drafting him? I'm sure his contract can be adjusted this time next year so the team getting him won't have to pay $1 million for his services in 2021.

The opportunity of giving more deserving people that 1 million dollars

 

[SandyToes]

The opportunity of giving more deserving people that 1 million dollars

Who?
Contracts are locked and loaded for this year and our 2020 salary cap is for hasbeens and wannabes from the minors and 1st year draftees
2 years at a million is totally manageable salary cap wise- then 3 at 300k?- he's a $600k player for sure
If he stinks it up and plays like arse then we look like geese but I actually think that's unlikely

 

[GC2015]

The opportunity of giving more deserving people that 1 million dollars

Who?
Contracts are locked and loaded for this year and our 2020 salary cap is for hasbeens and wannabes from the minors and 1st year draftees
2 years at a million is totally manageable salary cap wise- then 3 at 300k?- he's a $600k player for sure
If he stinks it up and plays like arse then we look like geese but I actually think that's unlikely

Exactly. Who are these players we have that deserve $1 million?

 

[gcsunsfc]

Who?
Contracts are locked and loaded for this year and our 2020 salary cap is for hasbeens and wannabes from the minors and 1st year draftees
2 years at a million is totally manageable salary cap wise- then 3 at 300k?- he's a $600k player for sure
If he stinks it up and plays like arse then we look like geese but I actually think that's unlikely

Well we've had Ellis, Greenwood come to our team this year
Brad Crouch may or may not have been interested.

Who's to say with an improved year - 6+ wins, some of our youngsters breaking out - that we don't have other out of contract (or still in contract) players lining up to come (ala carlton this year)

 

[gcsunsfc]

Exactly. Who are these players we have that deserve $1 million?

I'f we've just got money sitting there I don't care if Martin gets money for 2020 but I'm thinking 2021 - I sure as hell don't want to be paying him 1 million in 2021.

There are plenty of players that we can target in 2021 that would bring more to the team than a half committed Jack Martin

 

[SandyToes]

You're fixating on the million a year
You need to focus on $2.9M over 5
I reckon when our managers read that they would have high fived all the way to the war-room
It's another SOS disaster IMO
That blows no-one out of the water
All it does do is probably up what we were offering him by $100k a year

 

[gcsunsfc]

You're fixating on the million a year
You need to focus on $2.9M over 5

No I am not - I am thinking about paying Martin 1 million dollars in 2021

 

[Mini GF]

The first report was a million in year one and then after that quite low salaries

 

[GC2015]

If we've just got money sitting there I don't care if Martin gets money for 2020 but I'm thinking 2021 - I sure as hell don't want to be paying him 1 million in 2021.

There are plenty of players that we can target in 2021 that would bring more to the team than a half committed Jack Martin

Well I think we definitely have available cap space sitting there because we were entertaining the idea of recruiting Crouch for $800k+. Cal Ah Chee was supposedly on pretty good money too ($500k apparently) and obviously Jack himself was getting $700k+ from us. Then you consider the fact that we threw good money offers at Burgoyne and Betts. There's no doubt in my mind we have spare salary cap space that is just going to go to waste in 2020 if we don't do anything. I agree that paying him close to $1 million in 2021 would not be a good outcome for us and therefore I'd like to think we would be able to orchestrate a fair trade this time next year which nets us compensation and we can use the $1 million cap space to secure Crouch through free agency and potentially up any contracts of our talented youngsters that need to be paid more.

 

[SandyToes]

I just think the new list managers aren't prepared to weaken the list
If we'd got the picks we deserved for him we'd all be moving on
Getting spit roasted by Simple SOS and lowly Carlton shouldn't be our default position
In a nutshell the contract terms don't lock him in to Carlton IMO

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

I just think the new list managers aren't prepared to weaken the list
If we'd got the picks we deserved for him we'd all be moving on
Getting spit roasted by Simple SOS and lowly Carlton shouldn't be our default position
In a nutshell the contract terms don't lock him in to Carlton IMO

You're fixating on the million a year
You need to focus on $2.9M over 5
I reckon when our managers read that they would have high fived all the way to the war-room
It's another SOS disaster IMO
That blows no-one out of the water
All it does do is probably up what we were offering him by $100k a year

These comments are 100% spot on.

James Brayshaw IQ = 4