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List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

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If we are going to be really real he was dropped at the end of the year and we had about 8 injured. He wasn't trying. He wasn't top 30 on form.

Do you think he'll try more because we are paying him $1m? He'll just sook it up again. If he plays like he did this year there won't be any takers for any supposed trade next year.

The only way anything changes is if he comes out and does a 180 and commits to being a Sun before the draft.
 

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On the Martin thing, either way we go I think it works out reasonably well for us. The pressure will be on Carlton to get big improvement out of him should he go there.

Take Martin in the PSD and our point has well and truly been made. Let him go and we get rid of a player who’d prefer to be elsewhere, plus free up a lot of cap space to chase a more consistently talented player.
Should we retain Jack and he continues to sail along on an average horizontal trajectory with his performance, that’s more on him than us. Ultimately the player must take ownership for their own performance and stop blaming their surroundings. He’s being paid big money and has next to the best facilities in the AFL at his disposal.

Jack was good early this year, average through the middle of the season and poor at the end. If he can get settled into one position and back to his best and just develop a bit more consistency, we still have a best 22 footballer. To me he’s never going to be a consistent high disposal midfielder. He’s not built for it. I see him more as a floating Half-forward with the ability to change matches with flashes of brilliance.
 
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i’d Tell him we’ve invested a million in year for 2020.
Spud it up you’ll be running water bottles for the NEAFL and AFLW

Best case you star finish top 6 in B and F and we can try trade you out at end of 2020 if the right deal comes along.

Martin can tear up his contract/ salary to move clubs remember

If club and player come to a mutual agreement to terminate.
 
That sounds like a bad movie plot, I don't think that happens in reality
Ben Drever said:
i’d Tell him we’ve invested a million in year for 2020.
Spud it up you’ll be running water bottles for the NEAFL and AFLW

Best case you star finish top 6 in B and F and we can try trade you out at end of 2020 if the right deal comes along.

Martin can tear up his contract/ salary to move clubs remember

If club and player come to a mutual agreement to terminate.
Click to expand...

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A stand has to be made.
I know we are talking obscene amounts of money for a guy who quite frankly took the piss last year - but as Russell Crowe famously screamed in 'Romper Stomper' - "We stop them HERE!"
Stop being push-overs to Vic teams - and living here,I know that far more people than most of you think want us to succeed - they also want to us fight.

And telling Carlton and Jack Martin that we WILL NOT BE DICTATED TO anymore is something that all footy fans (well except maybe Carlton, but screw them) want to see.

It shows belief, and strength of character in our decision making. It shows the new kids that we WILL be here in 50 yrs. It shows every other AFL team to talk to us with some goddamn respect.

It might just focus Lukos mind to sign as well.

We draft him with money we HAVE to spend then 1 of 2 things happen
1) He plays well and decides to buy in - or leave next year with us in the box seat
OR
2) He plays like a flog, and as someone says, can carry the drinks for the Womens team - and that will reflect on JACK MARTIN not the GC Suns.

So sign him. It will only enhance us as a club or show the football world how piss-weak Jack Martin really is.

It's a win/win.

And no-one will ever come to us and expect to take the piss again by getting whoever they want for whatever they want.

Because "We stopped them here". :goldcoast:
 
We want to show our players love, not force, we want players that will give their all for our club, not hold them prisoner
The Gotham Penguin said:
A stand has to be made.
I know we are talking obscene amounts of money for a guy who quite frankly took the piss last year - but as Russell Crowe famously screamed in 'Romper Stomper' - "We stop them HERE!"
Stop being push-overs to Vic teams - and living here,I know that far more people than most of you think want us to succeed - they also want to us fight.

And telling Carlton and Jack Martin that we WILL NOT BE DICTATED TO anymore is something that all footy fans (well except maybe Carlton, but screw them) want to see.

It shows belief, and strength of character in our decision making. It shows the new kids that we WILL be here in 50 yrs. It shows every other AFL team to talk to us with some goddamn respect.

It might just focus Lukos mind to sign as well.

We draft him with money we HAVE to spend then 1 of 2 things happen
1) He plays well and decides to buy in - or leave next year with us in the box seat
OR
2) He plays like a flog, and as someone says, can carry the drinks for the Womens team - and that will reflect on JACK MARTIN not the GC Suns.

So sign him. It will only enhance us as a club or show the football world how piss-weak Jack Martin really is.

It's a win/win.

And no-one will ever come to us and expect to take the piss again by getting whoever they want for whatever they want.

Because "We stopped them here". :goldcoast:
Click to expand...

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sunsofanarchy said:
We want to show our players love, not force, we want players that will give their all for our club, not hold them prisoner

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Click to expand...
Redrafting Martin would be a statement that the Club expects to be winning a lot more games
I'm on record as saying Martin is a racehorse being used as a cart horse at the moment
We win some games , he kicks some goals and gets more highlight reels everyone wins
Hate it or hate it if he goes to Carlton now we have got jack diddly for him
If players are demanding when they leave the Club and where they're going to then the Club can expect something in return
It's up to the players and their agents and the destination Club to figure that out
Not just toss us a used wet wipe and say pick that up beggar
That's not holding anyone prisoner- that's demanding a fair trade
Just like my coffee beans
 
Suns of Anarchy said:
New management and new culture being built. The kids so far have extended and speak highly of what’s happening at the club.
We’ve made our stand by forcing him into the PSD. Move him on.
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That’s not making a stand. That would just be bluffing like you did with O’Meara and the rest of them. Net result is Martin gets to the club of his choice, you get nothing for him and the headaches return next October when emboldened clubs come once again to shake you down.

It’s not going to stop unless you take the hardest possible line you can ... and do not deviate from it. Creating a nice environment is only half the picture. You need a big stick to go with the carrots you’re offering. You need a deterrent.
 

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SandyToes said:
Redrafting Martin would be a statement that the Club expects to be winning a lot more games
I'm on record as saying Martin is a racehorse being used as a cart horse at the moment
We win some games , he kicks some goals and gets more highlight reels everyone wins
Hate it or hate it if he goes to Carlton now we have got jack diddly for him
If players are demanding when they leave the Club and where they're going to then the Club can expect something in return
It's up to the players and their agents and the destination Club to figure that out
Not just toss us a used wet wipe and say pick that up beggar
That's not holding anyone prisoner- that's demanding a fair trade
Just like my coffee beans
Click to expand...

I don't think we need to redraft Martin to send a statement that we expect to win more games, I think that should be pretty well understood.

I'm not sure your point regarding horses.

Not sure Jack wins? He's asked two years running for a trade, sure, he'll get his money, but he's getting that money regardless. And if Jack doesn't win, do we want the same uninterested Jack Martin playing for us that was dropped towards the back half of the season? Jack's not leaving for money, he doesn't want to be here.

We will get sfa for Jack, but that has been compensated for and more in Noah Anderson.

When future players inevitably ask to leave we will deal with those trades based on merit and in good faith, like all the other 17 clubs. Carlton will likely get Martin because they have the 3rd selection, but by not trading with us, they also have Melbourne to contend with, and that alone is why this is an extremely rare trade scenario

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GatesOfHell said:
That’s not making a stand. That would just be bluffing like you did with O’Meara and the rest of them. Net result is Martin gets to the club of his choice, you get nothing for him and the headaches return next October when emboldened clubs come once again to shake you down.

It’s not going to stop unless you take the hardest possible line you can ... and do not deviate from it. Creating a nice environment is only half the picture. You need a big stick to go with the carrots you’re offering. You need a deterrent.
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We’ve had no issue re-signing or extending first contracts when there was hope. Once that hope went after Clayton’s appalling list management the floodgates opened and excuses followed.
This is a full rebuild and again there’s hope for these kids and they are RE-signing. Ah Chee and Martin are the leftovers from the previous debacle. I don’t think the headaches return next October at all if we get it right
 
sunsofanarchy said:
We will get sfa for Jack, but that has been compensated for and more in Noah Anderson.
Click to expand...

Anderson is a concession for not winning or being competitive enough. Not winning or being competitive enough was primarily caused by not being able to retain star players.

“Anderson is compensation for Martin” is an inversion of logic and acceptance of a cyclical pattern that will keep repeating itself.

I can’t understand why Suns supporters would not want to a adopt a truly hardline after what’s happened over the past five years. Who cares what Martin’s first preference is? Do you think he’s going to sit out of footy in protest if you re-draft him? No, he’ll get on with the job just like Jack Bowes says he would in an article out of Queensland yesterday.

Five years locked in. “See you on the track at Metricon for your first running session of pre-season, Jack. We’re elated to have you back.”
 
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sunsofanarchy said:
I don't think we need to redraft Martin to send a statement that we expect to win more games, I think that should be pretty well understood.

I'm not sure your point regarding horses.



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Martin has been forced into an in and under role poorly suited to his physical attributes because of our perennial injury woes and pathetic midfield (cart horse)
He is a classic winger half forward in my opinion and would thrive in that role(race horse)
This is a sad business simply brought on by Carlton's pig headedness
And you can park as many animals as you like on Noah's Ark but the rest of the football world is just going to see us being washed away by floodwater again if we let Martin walk
It's like the Weller trade
We win that because Weller + Ballard- but the rest of the footballing world doesn't give a rats
It's just "Sad old Suns- had to give up pick 2 for a half back flanker"
 
Our concessions of picks 2 and 20 put us in a position where a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Martin weren't enough, they didn't improve our draft hand so we said no. If we didn't receive these concessions I believe we would have taken the deal Carlton proposed.

It's not Anderson for Martin. It's Martin can go to your club Melbourne if they'll have him, we don't want him here if he doesn't want to be here, if not Carlton can have him


GatesOfHell said:
Anderson is a concession for not winning or being competitive enough. Not winning or being competitive enough was primarily caused by not being able to retain star players.

“Anderson is compensation for Martin” is an inversion of logic and acceptance of a cyclical pattern that will keep repeating itself.

I can’t understand why Suns supporters would not want to a adopt a truly hardline after what’s happened over the past five years. Who cares what Martin’s first preference is? Do you think he’s going to sit out of footy in protest if you re-draft him? No, he’ll get on with the job just like Jack Bowes says he would in an article out of Queensland yesterday.

Five years locked in. “See you in the track at Metricon for your first running session of pre-season, Jack. We’re elated to have you back.”
Click to expand...


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sunsofanarchy said:
Our concessions of picks 2 and 20 put us in a position where a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Martin weren't enough, they didn't improve our draft hand so we said no. If we didn't receive these concessions I believe we would have taken the deal Carlton proposed.

It's not Anderson for Martin. It's Martin can go to your club Melbourne if they'll have him, we don't want him here if he doesn't want to be here, if not Carlton can have him





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I’m not so sure we would have accepted the future second and third. From the beginning we demanded a first. Backing off would just continue same old “Suns are a pushover at the trade table” story. We have clearly valued Martin more than Carlton all along.
 

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sunsofanarchy said:
Our concessions of picks 2 and 20 put us in a position where a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Martin weren't enough, they didn't improve our draft hand so we said no. If we didn't receive these concessions I believe we would have taken the deal Carlton proposed.

It's not Anderson for Martin. It's Martin can go to your club Melbourne if they'll have him, we don't want him here if he doesn't want to be here, if not Carlton can have him





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We? Who are you speaking on behalf of? Their are split opinions on this and I personally agree with the Demons fan.
 
Mr Bods said:
Indeed there have been a number of us advocating for drafting Martin
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Just to be clear if we'd got something appropriate for Jack out of Carlton I would have been fine with that
I'm just going to be peeved if we don't follow through now
Pyrrhic victories are best kept for Roman History studies
 
To be honest I don't really think theres much to lose with martin. Ideally Martin would've been traded to Carlton, we would've got our pick 9 and everyone would be happy. But that obviously didn't happen so we either redraft him and we get a good player back (maybe he mentors the young group, add that maturity and experience), probably let him go soon on our own terms than Carlton's pressure. Martin gets his club, we get the compensation we need and a year or so of experience that he can rub off on our players, and we're both somewhat satisfied. If he goes to Carlton now, we'll have cap space for another big star next year (maybe Crouch, haven't seen who else is on offer), the scars from our bad years are behind us and everyone can move on. The second option we lose more but in the end, everyone's able to move on. People forget the role the media play. We are led to believe martin despises the club and doesn't want anything to do with us, yet he's still hanging out with his team mates, they've all got the upmost respect for him and welcoming him back. If he had really said he hated the club like we're led to believe, why would these guys ever want him to come back to the club, when people like bowes have stressed the importance of having people who want to be here. I think the media is speaking for Martin a lot more than what he actually is himself cause I can't remember the last article quoting him word for word, a interview or podcast with him. Nothing. Just Melbourne media's opinions. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong since I very well could be, but I can't remember anything
 

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