List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[gcsunsfc]

AFL draft central write up of the u18 game

draftcentral.com.au

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afl.draftcentral.com.au

WESTERN AUSTRALIA 1.0 | 3.2 | 7.6 | 10.8 (68)
ALLIES 3.4 | 3.8 | 3.11 | 5.13 (43)
GOALS:
WA: Thorne 3, Taylor 3, McDonald, Sharp, Jamieson, Jackson
Allies: Gore 2, Rosas, Peatling, Lucas
BEST:
WA: Robertson, Rivers, Thorne, Garcia, Henry, Taylor
Allies: O’Neill, Rosas, Campbell, Gaden, Budarick, Ellem

 

[CommittedSuns]

I rated Budarick but he is not Rankine and due to his height normally other club don't dare to bid early. I put him around the same pick as bailey Scott,, GC Richmond third round pick should be enough, can always borrow next year pick if not enough point or trade next year second Rd out to Sydney, they current have pick 5,26,41, 51,55,59 or Bulldog 4,22, 40,43, 44.

* don't panic everybody want GCS second Rd normally equal to late first round.

Could Budarick be another Scheer? Highly touted draft pick that slips through to the end of the draft?

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

Any truth to Fiorini wanting out back to Victoria?

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

Any truth to Fiorini wanting out back to Victoria?

Never mind, just the media reporting bullshit.

His brother Robbie just said "Not a chance"

 

[Jirik13]

Never mind, just the media reporting ********.

His brother Robbie just said "Not a chance"

His mom on FB said also recently he goes nowhere. He loves it on GC. Stupid media.

 

[Basssman]

Any truth to Fiorini wanting out back to Victoria?

Where was this reported?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SandyToes]

Any truth to Fiorini wanting out back to Victoria?

He was one of the hardcore group putting pressure on Lynch et al last year IIRC so I highly doubt it

 

[Peel67skin]

He was one of the hardcore group putting pressure on Lynch et al last year IIRC so I highly doubt it

Isn't it May did it to somebody else also before he said goodbye, see enough drama post to know how we human is.

 

[CommittedSuns]

Between now and the end of the Draft are so many variables that it is dizzying. First of all, the Lions' #1 pick is looking like being in the teen, but even then it could be anywhere up to #18. Then there's picks potentially acquired through trades with players out of contract and there's always an in contract player wanting away. It isn't out of the realms of possibility to see another 2018 haul of early picks or even 2016 bounty. Then again, the club could do a GWS and collect a pile of later picks preparing for a bidding raid on their Academy picks.

The other major variable is that literally every single player you mentioned has a viable case for retention:
- Young played every game in 2018 and is a trusted commodity
- Leslie is a key position defender and those are valuable
- Nicholls is a foundation player and viable 2nd ruck
- Nutting is on the verge of senior selection and would be a re-rookie at worst
- Heron is also on the verge of senior selection and has a year of rookie eligibility left
- Wigg has 50 games of SANFL experience and was top 25 at the Crows in their Grand Final year
- Rischa is in a vein of good form and though his list spot is valuable, another year to help onfield development in the NEAFL couldn't be a bad thing

I could just as easily find arguments for them to go and another half a dozen players. It is simply too early to call what the Suns Draft position will look like by October and impossible to predict November, but your analysis is spot on about the way the rebuild is likely to continue through the bottom of the list. Will we see another broom sweep clean and mass re-rookies or will there be some more bargaining at the trade table to consolidate picks? I suspect an unpredictable combination of both.

I agree with your points but we will at least have to open 3 list spots and 1 rookie spot before we even start looking at trading... I don’t think we have too much currency on our list for draft picks at this stage in our favour so I think turnover will be via delistings. I just hope we don’t have a Jarryd Lyons type delisting again!

 

[Peel67skin]

Between now and the end of the Draft are so many variables that it is dizzying. First of all, the Lions' #1 pick is looking like being in the teen, but even then it could be anywhere up to #18. Then there's picks potentially acquired through trades with players out of contract and there's always an in contract player wanting away. It isn't out of the realms of possibility to see another 2018 haul of early picks or even 2016 bounty. Then again, the club could do a GWS and collect a pile of later picks preparing for a bidding raid on their Academy picks.

The other major variable is that literally every single player you mentioned has a viable case for retention:
- Young played every game in 2018 and is a trusted commodity
- Leslie is a key position defender and those are valuable
- Nicholls is a foundation player and viable 2nd ruck
- Nutting is on the verge of senior selection and would be a re-rookie at worst
- Heron is also on the verge of senior selection and has a year of rookie eligibility left
- Wigg has 50 games of SANFL experience and was top 25 at the Crows in their Grand Final year
- Rischa is in a vein of good form and though his list spot is valuable, another year to help onfield development in the NEAFL couldn't be a bad thing

I could just as easily find arguments for them to go and another half a dozen players. It is simply too early to call what the Suns Draft position will look like by October and impossible to predict November, but your analysis is spot on about the way the rebuild is likely to continue through the bottom of the list. Will we see another broom sweep clean and mass re-rookies or will there be some more bargaining at the trade table to consolidate picks? I suspect an unpredictable combination of both.

Every draft pick you plan to use,, with the new rule you need to delist somebody. Leslie, sheer, Wigg all got delisted before the draft. I don't see the need to trade 1st round pick away until draft night like how Sydney did with Blakey or you use Brisbane 1 St for Budarick with left over point for another players in the third round.

 

[Peel67skin]

Right now this is what the list looks like. The first changes I predict are Holman to the Senior list and a B rookie spot cleared for Ace.

View attachment 698202

I predicted all rookie B gone, shoenfield relegated to Rookie like sheer, Dawson, Heron should go to Southport like the former GC academy player North delisted Josh Williams second Rd pick his draft year. I knew you rated GC academy players graduate highly but sometime they need a kick in the back like Sam Collins and go to another state league to prove themselves again.

 

[2010premier]

I predicted all rookie B gone, shoenfield relegated to Rookie like sheer, Dawson, Heron should go to Southport like the former GC academy player North delisted Josh Williams second Rd pick his draft year. I knew you rated GC academy players graduate highly but sometime they need a kick in the back like Sam Collins and go to another state league to prove themselves again.

No way Riordan goes. He’s 19 they just got him a few weeks ago in mid season draft and he went very well in the only game he has played for the club in the NEAFL

 

[Peel67skin]

Let's wait on Schoenfeld. Sunny says he's had surgery, but if it isn't season ending then he's got a chance to to prove himself. No doubt Scheer, Dawson and Heron need to show that they deserve another year, but I'd argue that Rischa, Wigg and Leslie would be closer to being delisted.

As for Southport collecting delisted players, I wouldn't sell them short. Leslie didn't attract any bids at last year's trade, but with pre-season and mid-season drafts he's one who'd head to the VFL or SANFL waiting for a club with a long term injury to Key Defender. Scheer was, IMHO, ahead of Brodie before he was injured and he will be looking to return to the senior side before the season is out, but if he were to be delisted I can't see 17 clubs passing him up and we'd be throwing away a player we've developed for over 5 years. But again clearing up rookie list spots is something we can all agree on, just not how.

I think you mistaken my point GCS don't need to delist Sheer now because you can extend his contract as rookie like Holman, what I am trying to said is Shoenfield because he is under contract like sheer last year on the main list. GCS need to delist him and get him as Rookie A like sheer.

Eg Young,, Nicholls if nobody want them and GCS only want to paid them rookie contract, GCS need to delist them first.

 

[Peel67skin]

So you would think and I'm quite frankly stoked to have him because he's exactly the kind of player the Suns need. However, the Suns delisted Josh Jaska last season after 10 months, so nobody is truly safe with this list management group. Ace will be given a category B spot and priority should be given to Academy players. The Lions have 10 Queenslanders and the Suns have 12, whereas the premiership era Lions had about 20. Half the Eagles current list are Western Australians. The template has always been there, it is just that competition equalisation prevents clubs from stacking up all the local players, except in QLD and NSW. While we have such access to these academy players, why not stock up on Academy kids and stash immature and washed out players in the NEAFL in order to draft them back in during the PSD, MSD or future end of season Draft.

GWS, Sydney, Brisbane don't simply draft their own academy players. If they think they are not good enough they just let them go to redland, aspley, Southport, Canberra, Sydney university, why GCS need to be different.

Josh Janka delisted is because they need to make decision to keep him or Leslie a top 20 pick. I rather admit I pick the wrong rookie list player than a top 20 pick.

There are plenty players like Roos, Maguire who is a lot better than Heron, Dawson face semi pro life like Collins and Corbett ( a year ago)

 

[gcsunsfc]

Some stats from the u18 Allies vs. WA game are now available on AFL draft central website

Connor Budarick
- 11 kicks, 6 handballs, 2 marks, 12 tackles, 3 inside 50, 3 clearances

Josh Gore
- 8 kicks, 5 handballs, 3 marks, 4 tackles, 2 goals, 1 inside 50

Ashton Crossley
- 6 kicks, 6 bandpasses, 1 mark, 0 tackles, 4 clearances, 2 inside 50

Dirk Koenan
- 3 kicks, 7 handballs, 4 marks, 2 tackles

Ace Hewago
- 2 kicks, 5 handballs, 3 marks, 5 tackles

 

[Peel67skin]

Thanks for this. The frustrating part is that with these limited stats is you cannot see some of the really important indicators, such as pressure acts and 1%ers. Ace was applying pressure like there was no tomorrow against an opposition that had more than half of the possession and he affected a few turnovers. Koenan had the kind of game that had some experts name him in their best for his intercept marking and spoiling at the contest, while others, like AFL Central publishing 3 days after the game, overlooked him on the strength of his low stats. I would particularly like to see time on ground because I suspect Ashton and Ace had limited time. All 5 Suns plus Matt Conroy should be pretty bullish about their chances of getting selected again.

In my opinion the less club rated GC academy players the better. Eg Adelaide father and son pick after a year in rookie list they delisted them. Get them in as rookie list, exception Bowes type of talent and size as first round pick.

 

[Peel67skin]

Father-Son does not equate to Talent Academy, not even close. In fact, Nick Blakey preferred his Academy club to the 2 clubs his father played 100+ games for and you can't say the Swans Academy is overrated - Isaac Heeney, Callum Mills, Sam Naismith, Sam Wicks and James Bell, to name a few.

Lachie Weller came through the Academy, as have Jesse Joyce, Brayden Crossley, Jacob Dawson, Jacob Heron, Connor Nutting, Jack Bowes, Brad Scheer, Caleb Graham and also Bailey Scott and Braydon Preuss, with 4 others who have played at AFL level. It is an excellent accomplishment and integral part of the Suns evolution into an AFL force. Without those players the club would have no identity amongst the local community apart from players like Rory Thompson, who is a virtual Father-Son himself, with his Dad being a club legend at Southport Sharks.

The only reason the Suns Academy hasn't produced more out and out stars is that it is the smallest of the 4 Northern Academies, but that is changing in a big way. The Suns now have Talent Academy divisions for male and female players right down the age groups and each season more players are coming through that are AFL prospects. I've suggested that up to 6 Suns Academy players could be picked up, but if several were pushed into the U19 group for 2020 then they could always claim a list spot next year. In 2020, Alex Davies and Jack Johnston are early favourites to be drafted, while in 2021 we've got Jye Lockett, Austin Harris, and Will Bella, among others, in what could be the strongest group yet.

Clubs like the Crows and Lions, whose club success has them placed for a multitude of father-sons all the time have had to be brutal. At Carlton, they are a bit more lenient, but when your father and grandfather were club legends you get a longer run at it. Mason Fletcher, son of Dustin and grandson of Ken, will test the club's loyalty in this year's Draft. There's also a kid named Casey Voss playing for Sturt and and Tyler roos playing for Southport whose Dads were Lions legends, but just got a tshirt instead of a jersey.

Do you know how many academy players from GWS, Brisbane, Sydney let go every year. I mean not Weller, blakey, Mills type but koenan, Graham, Heron, Dawson type. GWS rather pick Irish for rookie B than Mitch Maguire who won rising star NEAFL last year. You pick quality not quatitiy. Peace Hanley is also Brisbane rookie B pick. If Koenan is that good as overager other club would have pick him up in Spp like Sydney stack.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Thanks for this. The frustrating part is that with these limited stats is you cannot see some of the really important indicators, such as pressure acts and 1%ers. Ace was applying pressure like there was no tomorrow against an opposition that had more than half of the possession and he affected a few turnovers. Koenan had the kind of game that had some experts name him in their best for his intercept marking and spoiling at the contest, while others, like AFL Central publishing 3 days after the game, overlooked him on the strength of his low stats. I would particularly like to see time on ground because I suspect Ashton and Ace had limited time. All 5 Suns plus Matt Conroy should be pretty bullish about their chances of getting selected again.

Yeah, agree that basic stats don't tell the whole picture obviously
I think the guys at AFL draft central would have watched the game / stream though - not just published based on stats.
From what I've seen of Ace he is a high impact per possession kind of player so pure kicks/handballs unlikely to demonstrate his game impact.

Whilst I guess pressure is very important in AFL games - I suspect that a player doesn't get drafted on the strength of these things alone. Often those that end up as small forwards in the AFL were fast midfielders in underage comps. Small forwards that were drafted recently still usually put up some decent numbers - Petruccelle the exception, but essentially drafted on his pure speed.

- Ned Mchenry 15 possessions, 10 tackles, 0.5 goals per game
- Ian Hill 14 possessions, 4 marks, 4 tackles, 1 goal per game
- Irving Mosquito - didn't play champs
- Brent Daniels - didn't play champs
- Jack Petruccele 9.3 possessions, 2.3 marks, 3 tackles, 0.3 goals per game
- Kane Farrell - 14 possessions, 3 marks, 1.7 tackles
- Ben Ainsworth - 15.5 possessions, 5.5 marks, 2 tackles, 2.5 goals
- Jordan Gallucci - 15 possessions, 4 marks, 4 tackles, 0.8 goals

 

[briztoon]

Yeah, agree that basic stats don't tell the whole picture obviously
I think the guys at AFL draft central would have watched the game / stream though - not just published based on stats.
From what I've seen of Ace he is a high impact per possession kind of player so pure kicks/handballs unlikely to demonstrate his game impact.

Whilst I guess pressure is very important in AFL games - I suspect that a player doesn't get drafted on the strength of these things alone. Often those that end up as small forwards in the AFL were fast midfielders in underage comps. Small forwards that were drafted recently still usually put up some decent numbers - Petruccelle the exception, but essentially drafted on his pure speed.

- Ned Mchenry 15 possessions, 10 tackles, 0.5 goals per game
- Ian Hill 14 possessions, 4 marks, 4 tackles, 1 goal per game
- Irving Mosquito - didn't play champs
- Brent Daniels - didn't play champs
- Jack Petruccele 9.3 possessions, 2.3 marks, 3 tackles, 0.3 goals per game
- Kane Farrell - 14 possessions, 3 marks, 1.7 tackles
- Ben Ainsworth - 15.5 possessions, 5.5 marks, 2 tackles, 2.5 goals
- Jordan Gallucci - 15 possessions, 4 marks, 4 tackles, 0.8 goals

Do you have Gryan Miers and Dylan Moore's stats?

 

[CommittedSuns]

Reports today that Ed Langdon might be looking for a new home next year. Media says he's heading home to Victoria, but with the Suns looking for exactly that kind of player how hard should the club chase him?

Not hard at all... last thing we want to do is pay overs for player that doesn’t want to be here

 

[CommittedSuns]

Reports today that Ed Langdon might be looking for a new home next year. Media says he's heading home to Victoria, but with the Suns looking for exactly that kind of player how hard should the club chase him?

Not hard at all... last thing we want to do is pay overs for player that doesn’t want to be here. That being said would love to have him

 

[CommittedSuns]

Ed Langdon had a chance to return to Victoria 2 years ago and knocked it back. Tom Langdon had the chance to go west to Freo last year and knocked it back. Nowhere has it been suggested he doesn't want to come to the Suns, just that 90% of the AFL Media is in Melbourne so they are all predicting he wants to go home.

I also didn't say the Suns should pay overs either, just that he'd be good and we could afford him.

This article suggests that Weller and Langdon are pretty good mates, drafted together in the same year as Miller, Wright, Ellis and Wigg.

Freo's 'Three Amigos' saddle up

LACHIE Weller, Connor Blakely and Ed Langdon don’t know what their football destiny has in store for them. What they do know is that they want to experience the ride together.

www.perthnow.com.au

I didn’t say you did.. you just have to pay overs generally for players when your not a destination club. The only way out of this mess we are in is from the bottom up.

 

[gcsunsfc]

- Josh Gore - 13 possessions, 3 marks, 4 tackles, 2 goals, 1 inside 50

Compares pretty well with Ben Ainsworth

Gore's NAB League averages were - 14 possessions, 4.6 marks, 4 tackles, 2 goals over 5 games, so he's ultra-consistent.

You can see why I'm impressed with him as he's a genuine small forward and likely to attract opposition attention at the Draft.

His NEAFL averages are not quite as good, however, he was playing a lot as a 16 year old and now has 14 goals from 11 games, with 4 goals in his most recent game.

I think a guy with true forward nous would be good for us.
Just wish he was 185 not 178ish?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gcsunsfc]

Do you have Gryan Miers and Dylan Moore's stats?

Moore 23 possessions few marks and tackles 3 goals in 4 games
Miners 17/4/4/0.5 goals


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jirik13]

M Riordan (unavailable)