AFLW 2019 Expansion - Welcome North/Tas and Geelong (WCE, GC, Rich, Stk in 2020)

[wally funk]

Geelong and Tassie would be excellent options for 2019, and I would think the Eagles have just about earned the right to be next after that, alongside either Richmond or St Kilda. But the next round of expansion after 2019 shouldn't be until at least 2021. I imagine it sucks for clubs wanting ladies teams, but they can't all come at once, lest the talent pool take a massive dip in quality to fill out so many new clubs in so short a time.

 

[Gigantor]

I can't remember where I heard this, but there was a discussion on some radio show or podcast where someone asked about how close the womens leagues in places like Canada and the US were compared to the AFLW.

The response went something like this, not close enough, and the gap will now get bigger and will probably never get closer than what it is presently.

I sat down and thought about that response and saw clearly that what he was saying was correct, after a few pre-seasons playing professionally, there is no way any league overseas, playing shortened seasons can ever hope to get even close, ever.

I mention that story because I am worried that domestically, if we wait too long after the first phase of expansion, as the professional sides consolidate, get more pre-seasons into their girls, improve their training, get better all round, that the gap between the AFLW and the state leagues (which will continue to be fully amateur for a long time to come), will get bigger and bigger, whereas, if we can bring in six new teams in 2019, such a gap would not exist, or would be the smallest it is ever going to be.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I can't remember where I heard this, but there was a discussion on some radio show or podcast where someone asked about how close the womens leagues in places like Canada and the US were compared to the AFLW.

The response went something like this, not close enough, and the gap will now get bigger and will probably never get closer than what it is presently.

I sat down and thought about that response and saw clearly that what he was saying was correct, after a few pre-seasons playing professionally, there is no way any league overseas, playing shortened seasons can ever hope to get even close, ever.

I mention that story because I am worried that domestically, if we wait too long after the first phase of expansion, as the professional sides consolidate, get more pre-seasons into their girls, improve their training, get better all round, that the gap between the AFLW and the state leagues (which will continue to be fully amateur for a long time to come), will get bigger and bigger, whereas, if we can bring in six new teams in 2019, such a gap would not exist, or would be the smallest it is ever going to be.

I understand your thinking -but this view would expose the AFLW to being mocked in 2019, if 6 new teams were introduced.

The skill drop-off would be too great, giving easy encouragement & "justification"for the knockers -many of whom , I suspect, will never be "convinced"of the merits of women's AF (or any female sport, perhaps).
It is the AFLW neutrals we must be careful not to alienate. If we lose them by having too many "inept" AFLW players, we may never be able to salvage their support for a very long time. Best to hasten slowly.

 

[The_Wookie]

I can't remember where I heard this, but there was a discussion on some radio show or podcast where someone asked about how close the womens leagues in places like Canada and the US were compared to the AFLW.

The response went something like this, not close enough, and the gap will now get bigger and will probably never get closer than what it is presently.

I sat down and thought about that response and saw clearly that what he was saying was correct, after a few pre-seasons playing professionally, there is no way any league overseas, playing shortened seasons can ever hope to get even close, ever.

I mention that story because I am worried that domestically, if we wait too long after the first phase of expansion, as the professional sides consolidate, get more pre-seasons into their girls, improve their training, get better all round, that the gap between the AFLW and the state leagues (which will continue to be fully amateur for a long time to come), will get bigger and bigger, whereas, if we can bring in six new teams in 2019, such a gap would not exist, or would be the smallest it is ever going to be.

Thats where programs like the womens TAC Cup in Victoria, and the actual SANFL womens league (which is also team limited at the moment, not all SANFL teams have a womens team) come into play. The VWFL restructured for this reason as well I believe.

Its also why I believe that AFL teams without an AFLW side should be fielding a state level team before they make the big time - as Geelong and Hawthorn are doing.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I can't remember where I heard this, but there was a discussion on some radio show or podcast where someone asked about how close the womens leagues in places like Canada and the US were compared to the AFLW.

The response went something like this, not close enough, and the gap will now get bigger and will probably never get closer than what it is presently.

I sat down and thought about that response and saw clearly that what he was saying was correct, after a few pre-seasons playing professionally, there is no way any league overseas, playing shortened seasons can ever hope to get even close, ever.

I mention that story because I am worried that domestically, if we wait too long after the first phase of expansion, as the professional sides consolidate, get more pre-seasons into their girls, improve their training, get better all round, that the gap between the AFLW and the state leagues (which will continue to be fully amateur for a long time to come), will get bigger and bigger, whereas, if we can bring in six new teams in 2019, such a gap would not exist, or would be the smallest it is ever going to be.

Not sure what you heard was the best assessment that when all the AFLW clubs are scouting the International Cup, the increases in teams for 2019 are probably going to go deeper than the improvement in quality of the talent pool (ie the league's worst player in 2019 is going to be of a lower quality than this year's) plus obviously squad sizes might increase again from 30 after being 27 from last year.

 

[Gigantor]

Not sure what you heard was the best assessment that when all the AFLW clubs are scouting the International Cup, the increases in teams for 2019 are probably going to go deeper than the improvement in quality of the talent pool (ie the league's worst player in 2019 is going to be of a lower quality than this year's) plus obviously squad sizes might increase again from 30 after being 27 from last year.

It costs nothing to have a look, and the point is that if any players are going to be signed, now is the time to do it, because with each passing year the gap in the womens game will increase from this point on. The North American womens leagues will never be as close to the Australian leagues as they are now.

 

[jatz14]

Not sure what you heard was the best assessment that when all the AFLW clubs are scouting the International Cup, the increases in teams for 2019 are probably going to go deeper than the improvement in quality of the talent pool (ie the league's worst player in 2019 is going to be of a lower quality than this year's) plus obviously squad sizes might increase again from 30 after being 27 from last year.

This is common speculation, but realistically, we will not know until it happens.

People concentrate on the numbers coming through, and where the extra 120 or so players will come from withut diluting the pool, but this ignores changes in the current players.

Current AFLW players came out of suburban footy, therefore there is likely to be more improvement to be had in their standard from good coaching and training than is the case for men.

There is also improvement to be had in those that wanted to be in the AFLW, but who missed out, some of whom are surely trying to lift there game to get in.
So 2018 could see a better standard just from natural improvement, and we know there are some guns coming in, so that should improve as well.

 

[Caputo]

With all the conjecture of who the new teams, this may bring in some strange expansion rules.

I have heard the minimalist Melbourne expansion WC, Gold Coast , Geelong and North (Tas) or the shrill of Richmond St Kilda, Geelong and West Coast.

How should Western Australia be expanded for AFLW. How many players should Freo have contained/retained from the 2018 list. Can West Coast go off with 2 Tier one contracts. Currently, WA has 4 2017 All Australian players eligible for Draft in 2018. Maybe there is room for some more elite talent. Do they split the WAWFL teams as feeder clubs. Sam Kerr? More Rookie List (Players from non recent AFL background). There has been WA under 23 games. How quick can West Coast catch up the two years head start Freo has had.

 

[jatz14]

With all the conjecture of who the new teams, this may bring in some strange expansion rules.

I have heard the minimalist Melbourne expansion WC, Gold Coast , Geelong and North (Tas) or the shrill of Richmond St Kilda, Geelong and West Coast.

How should Western Australia be expanded for AFLW. How many players should Freo have contained/retained from the 2018 list. Can West Coast go off with 2 Tier one contracts. Currently, WA has 4 2017 All Australian players eligible for Draft in 2018. Maybe there is room for some more elite talent. Do they split the WAWFL teams as feeder clubs. Sam Kerr? More Rookie List (Players from non recent AFL background). There has been WA under 23 games. How quick can West Coast catch up the two years head start Freo has had.

My preferred model would be something like, Freo gets to quarantine no more than 2 or 3 players, then the rest are split into 3 tiers. Eagles can pick 1 or 2 from tier 1, a third of tier 2, and half tier 3.
The Eagles then gets first dibs at drafting until numbers are even, then turn about from there.

This let's Freo keep about 10 of their top 12, and most of the next tranche. Eagles get a few good established players, a bunch of experienced solid players, and the pick of the first rounds of the draft.

Reality is, the steep drop of in women's talent is going to make the expansion harder than in the men's game. Shallower drafts mean quite a few players will have to come from the existing pool.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[Caputo]

I think Gold Coast will have similar start up rules to the West Coast but not sure if both enter in 2019.

I am still thinking how Geelong and North would differ from the model.

 

[Gigantor]

This is why there is merit in the argument that it is better to include more teams now and share around the best players rather than have clubs like Freo and Brisbane lock up the best talent in their respective states for years to come.

 

[The_Wookie]

This is why there is merit in the argument that it is better to include more teams now and share around the best players rather than have clubs like Freo and Brisbane lock up the best talent in their respective states for years to come.

We dont even know if thats going to be the case as the AFL havent announced any list rules for 2019. For all we know their may have to be a full delisting and full redraft.

 

[NoobPie]

We dont even know if thats going to be the case as the AFL havent announced any list rules for 2019. For all we know their may have to be a full delisting and full redraft.

No chance

 

[The_Wookie]

No chance

Its unlikely, Ill admit - wasnt meant to be taken literally.

 

[Caputo]

I was trying to say how each new team may bring different challenges. North how to intergrate Tasmania in the Draft. Geelong's challenge to remain a regional team in the Melbourne pool. Not sure I am happy Geelong having both AFLW and VFLW team at the same time.

 

[NoobPie]

Its unlikely, Ill admit - wasnt meant to be taken literally.

They'll need to free up some aflw listed players so might increase the the delist requirement but they definitely won't want to remove the entire teams

 

[Gigantor]

We dont even know if thats going to be the case as the AFL havent announced any list rules for 2019. For all we know their may have to be a full delisting and full redraft.

Regardless, there are two competing perspectives one can take on the issue, and both arguments have merit:

1. Pool of talent is too small, so better to concentrate that in fewer clubs (the logical extension of that argument is to leave it at 8 clubs);

or alternatively

2. The pool of available talent will never be closer to AFLW standard than it is right now, rather than concentrate the talent to such a degree that it becomes very difficult for new entrants down the track, bring in as many clubs as is practicable right now, share the available talent, and grow together. Bring in the new teams while professionalism is still new before the gap widens.

As far as I am concerned, the possibility of expanding by 6 teams in 2019 exists, especially if we can hold back as much young talent as we can for one more season. Second WA and Qld teams are immediately viable (especially if they can hold onto emerging young talent for one more season), and four Melbourne clubs can come in immediately as well (the four which are already provisionally accepted).

Also a 13 round season plus four weeks of finals starts to become a proper season, we should try and get there sooner rather than later.

 

[GreyCrow]

Lets look at history. For example when Adelaide entered the Mens Comp the AFL 'graciously'' allowed us to pick 1 player ( and 1 player only) from each of the existing clubs and they had to be from SA and out of contract. I think jatz14 idea of nominating tier 1,2,3 is sound. Recognise that to grow the game that some short term sacrifice is required by all teams and no team can ''own' any player in this new environment.

 

[Bostonian]

I helped officiate a game of Women's Gaelic Football down in Geelong a few months back and there were certainly a few women in that game who have the skills and athleticism to play AFLW.

Some of the players represented Australia in the world championships and won it all so they can perform at a high level.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Someone has tweeted that c7 reported tonight the afl may be looking to add 5-6 teams next week

Did anyone see the report?

 

[Crawb]

Someone has tweeted that c7 reported tonight the afl may be looking to add 5-6 teams next week

Did anyone see the report?

Last 15 seconds of clip:

6 new teams would be a massive amount of new players required at once. Perhaps they stagger the introduction of teams over a few years?

 

[drunkill]

Yeah, 5 or 6 is too many. Unless they were granting licenses now across two or three years.

 

[NoobPie]

Yeah, 5 or 6 is too many. Unless they were granting licenses now across two or three years.

Don't have a strong opinion but you'd hope that the they are not just selecting that many to squib the hard rejection

I would say

Definites

West Coast
Geelong
North / Tasmania

Almost certains

St Kilda
Richmond

If they go 5 they should go six

If so, I suspect either Gold Coast or Essendon

 

[NimFromSudan]

Can't remember where I heard it (maybe Age podcast?), but I think the AFL doesn't want to have years and years of compromised drafts where they have to move existing players to new clubs for balance. Two expansions to get to 18 will sort this out in the next 5 years and get it out of the way.

 

[NoobPie]

Can't remember where I heard it (maybe Age podcast?), but I think the AFL doesn't want to have years and years of compromised drafts where they have to move existing players to new clubs for balance. Two expansions to get to 18 will sort this out in the next 5 years and get it out of the way.

Good point

One big jolt at the end of this next season....and then presumably you have 4 extra teams in another couple of years