List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

[StickyMick]

Would it be fair to say this trade period will be extremely important for carrying over into the trade period next season? What I mean is, by going 5 for 5 on players that nominated us, that'll surely raise confidence levels getting a deal done. Trade confidence will also be high between us and other clubs as well. Got our deals done without fracturing any relationships, and acted compassionately with Jack. Could be invaluable to securing some really good players in the coming years.

 

[Lenny2020]

Gone are the days were you can build a team from the draft.

It's a combo of all 3

Draft. (billings gresh Clarke King roma)
Trade. (Steele, Carlisle, Hill, Jones)
Free agency. ????

We've drafted and traded is some quality players and I think next year is when we get our FA.





On DUB-LX2 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Those days aren’t gone. The draft is still the most important place to build a list. The first round is where you find elite players that build a core, especially in the top 10. Quality players can be found in every other round too but high picks are extremely important.

Free agency is also important but you need to be competitive to get the good ones. And then we come back to the importance of the draft.

 

[Lightsxo]

There's at least 4 or 5 parts to this I find hilarious.

View attachment 766495

I ******* rate this.

Absolute cheeky bastard. Got his premierships at the Hawks, got 2 years of high wages at Freo and when his wedge was supposed to come down he’s ****ed off to us here.

Absolute mad dog.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Webster Howard Geary
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Billings Ross Hill
Membrey Battle Lonie
Gresham King Butler
Marshall Steele Hannebery

Jones Dunstan Wilkie Ryder

Emergencies: Kent Sinclair Savage Coffield

2 mids on rotation.
If 1 is injured down to 1. Though i guess you could shift Clark to the midfield.
Last season Wilkie was on of our highest with TOG. 89%

Interestingly the players with the least TOG were:
White, Young, Langlands, Steven , Hannebery, Acres.

Dunstan had 74%.
Clarke 77%
Gresham 82:
-----
So we need one rotation for these guys.

Hill played 80-90% at Freo which is a good thing.
Billings also played high TOG .
------------
Most of our other mids have 80-85 percentish.

2 rucks on the bench with 50% TOG each is BS.

Parker not even an Emergency?

I can't fit all of Carlisle, Battle, King, Membrey , Ryder, Howard, Marshall. Its one too many.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

To be fair he played in some games where Richmond fielded a very undermanned team.

Compared to StKilda's team of AA mids?

 

[Moral Decay]

Hill is on the same level as Steven, but younger and healthier.

Howard is an upgrade on Brown

Jones is on the same level as Acres

Ryder is a downgrade on Bruce as a forward, and an upgrade as a ruck (but older)

Butler is on about the same level as Lonie/Long/Parker/Kent

I'm not as excited about this trade period as others. We still have a whole lot of deadwood on the list like Newnes, McKenzie, Young etc. We have far too many half backs, not enough mids and no experienced, decent key forwards.


From current list:

Best 22

B: Wilkie, Howard, Geary
HB: Roberton, Carlisle, Clark
C: Hill, Steele, Ross
HF: Billings, Marshall, Hind
F: Membrey, Battle, Butler

Foll: Ryder, Gresham, Hannebery
Int: Jones, Dunstan, Savage, Sinclair

Reserves

B: Marsh, Brown McKenzie
HB: Coffield, Austin, Webster
C: Newnes, Bytel, Paton
HF: Kent, Mayo, Lonie
F: Parker, King, Long

Foll: Alabakis, Langlands, Phillips
Int: Clavarino, Joyce, White, Rice

Emg: Young, McCartin


How can our list of defensive depth be so incredibly long and have so many mediocre small forwards while we have absolutely no viable backup mids or rucks in reserve? I'm sure we'll pick up a mature ruck in the draft and we'll be able to take another player when McCartin is placed on the LTIL, but this is still a massively unbalanced list. Our best 22 if fit and firing could push for the lower half of the 8, but a couple of injuries to our mids, rucks or tall forwards will send us to the bottom of the pack.

We'll need patience, the list didn't get into this mess overnight and it will take years to get out of it, the tough part isn't who is rubbish but what to do with them, if we don't want them and other clubs don't want them then we're left with them and we either get other clubs discards (see Kent) or gradual replacement through the draft, which we have to get spot on. In the meantime they're on the list and getting a wage.

What that wage is has really been forced to the forefront of my mind in this trade period, the money we were paying Blake was madness for his output but then we have to pay it to someone, the complaints about DMacs contract without knowing what the cost is? Seems pretty pointless.

This time around we either had to bottom out again (Adelaide) or do what Ratts has done, incremental improvement in key areas, hope the coaching staff and the backroom boys are finally smart enough and try and enjoy the ride.

 

[jwikked]

Would it be fair to say this trade period will be extremely important for carrying over into the trade period next season? What I mean is, by going 5 for 5 on players that nominated us, that'll surely raise confidence levels getting a deal done. Trade confidence will also be high between us and other clubs as well. Got our deals done without fracturing any relationships, and acted compassionately with Jack. Could be invaluable to securing some really good players in the coming years.

Where would you rather nominate? Carlton who totally failed to get deals done or St Kilda who did what needed to be done? Think this was a big advertisement to the club moving forward, if we follow it up with a good year next year the sky is the limit.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I would say so for White, campaigner went 0% TOG for us.

He played round 11. Fwd. 58% TOG. 2 Behinds.

 

[CaptainRisky]

With approx 10 billion posts on the trade (give or take a couple) not sure if this has been written, coz I aint gunna check em all. Paddy Ryder just may have been our best pick in this draft for outside of rucking and forward play, he IMO brings three other attributes to the team.
1/ I believe he and Hill are cousins & although Hill has been in the system a while, being away from “ “ home with family is a bonus.
2/ Ryder being around the traps for so long now would be an ideal leader for his indigenous brothers.
3/ Probably most importantly we have of late, never had a strong man to protect our smaller/ younger players, in Ryder we now have. All Saints players can now walk tall, play with confidence & have no fear.
Fortius Quo Fidelius

Most of your post is very true i think but not sure the boys were ever scared , this is AFL not the back blocks footy of the 80's and 90's

 

[CaptainRisky]

He played round 11. Fwd. 58% TOG. 2 Behinds.

Took a few good marks even though he was carrying a decent corkie

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Would it be fair to say this trade period will be extremely important for carrying over into the trade period next season? What I mean is, by going 5 for 5 on players that nominated us, that'll surely raise confidence levels getting a deal done. Trade confidence will also be high between us and other clubs as well. Got our deals done without fracturing any relationships, and acted compassionately with Jack. Could be invaluable to securing some really good players in the coming years.

Hanners took a chance IMO... he was coming into a boring club, led by a vanilla coach. If it was his connection with Lethers that paved the way then that's awesome.

The five new rec ruits are onboard thanks to the buzz around Linton St. A coach with energy, experience and superb player relationships. One of the most loved and respected football people ever in Roughie. An elite facility in a desirable location. An admin that finally seems to have it's s**t together. And an untapped supporter base that is absolutely frothing for success.

We just need to translate all of that into wins and a finals berth in 2020.

And that's when St Kilda will become a destination that's not just an option to FA's and OOC players but a club that players want to be be part of.

 

[pebblesofsand]

What exactly was the strategy/vision other than to turn players over.

1. Ryder or a backup ruckman was obvious.

2.Howard was pretty much opportunistic, we didn't really need him but sure he will hopefully be really good for the long term, and free battle up.

3. No one can doubt hill is a really good player, but we still have Ross and Dunstan playing inside.

I am not negative on the trades but I am not sure their was a detailed plan/strategy/vision.


He kicked goals with the Richmond midfield, didn't play much in the 1s for 2019 and not much interest from other sides in the trade period. Hopefully he plays well.

Strategy was obvious, implementation was impeccable.

Prior to the trade period identified the need for (amongst other things)

Outside run, spread and class (Hill), midfield speed (Jones), back up ruckman (Ryder), replacement full back (Howard), pressure forwards (Butler). As they progressively became available prior to the trade periodwe targeted them and got them all through perfect trade implementation. Pick swap with GWS a masterstroke.

Now unless I missed Dusty Martin being available for Pick 6 who else should we have targeted?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Those days aren’t gone. The draft is still the most important place to build a list. The first round is where you find elite players that build a core, especially in the top 10. Quality players can be found in every other round too but high picks are extremely important.

Free agency is also important but you need to be competitive to get the good ones. And then we come back to the importance of the draft.

Since the 2014 write off our drafting has been on the money.

Trading out picks to add players in or approaching their prime when a draft is thin is a very smart strategy IMO.

It also strengthens the list to a point that we may be able to trade out mature players for picks when a strong draft is predicted.

 

[Confuscius]

Really wonder what Richmond team I'm watching... They seem to me to be a side that gets it forward by whatever means necessary and trust that their quick smalls will cause pressure and bad turnovers if the ball goes to their opponents that it doesn't really matter.

You genuinely see them kick/handball/punch/slap the ball forward without looking all the time. Kicking off the ground to noone in particular. They just have faith either they'll win the ball or their smalls will chase and harass until they create a turnover the other way and punish on the rebound.

They can do this because if they themselves have a bad turnover they set up so well behind the ball that they rarely get hurt the other way.

Seeing a few posts about butler kicking goals because of the service... They're undoubtedly better than us in that regard but they're not really a side built on clean disposals imo

 

[bergholt]

I reckon Kent is more backup to Skunk... he's a mid sized marking target rather than a crumber.

I probably agree on the way he plays, but he's 179cm so barely mid-sized!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Strategy was obvious, implementation was impeccable.

Prior to the trade period identified the need for (amongst other things)

Outside run, spread and class (Hill), midfield speed (Jones), back up ruckman (Ryder), replacement full back (Howard), pressure forwards (Butler). As they progressively became available prior to the trade periodwe targeted them and got them all through perfect trade implementation. Pick swap with GWS a masterstroke.

Now unless I missed Dusty Martin being available for Pick 6 who else should we have targeted?

I call bullshit.
Is there any evidence that Howard and Butler were targeted prior to the draft.

Most of our targets ( not Hill ) reek of... "ohhh look XXXX might be gettable, shall we talk to him "
Like Kent last year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I probably agree on the way he plays, but he's 179cm so barely mid-sized!

Joey was mid-sized

 

[DGontheQT]

Our teams fortunes may well reflect the year that Josh Battle has in 2020. He will be crucial to any improvement IMO.

 

[majortinkle]

2 mids on rotation.
If 1 is injured down to 1. Though i guess you could shift Clark to the midfield.
Last season Wilkie was on of our highest with TOG. 89%

Interestingly the players with the least TOG were:
White, Young, Langlands, Steven , Hannebery, Acres.

Dunstan had 74%.
Clarke 77%
Gresham 82:
-----
So we need one rotation for these guys.

Hill played 80-90% at Freo which is a good thing.
Billings also played high TOG .
------------
Most of our other mids have 80-85 percentish.

2 rucks on the bench with 50% TOG each is BS.

Parker not even an Emergency?

I can't fit all of Carlisle, Battle, King, Membrey , Ryder, Howard, Marshall. Its one too many.

I think it's fine as long as Wilkie and to a lesser extent Robbo aren't also in the 22

 

[Lenny2020]

Since the 2014 write off our drafting has been on the money.

Trading out picks to add players in or approaching their prime when a draft is thin is a very smart strategy IMO.

It also strengthens the list to a point that we may be able to trade out mature players for picks when a strong draft is predicted.

Not sure about on the money. Since 2014 in the national draft the players who have proven themselves or are looking like future decent players are Gresham, Battle, Clark, Coffield and Paton. The rest have been ordinary or it’s too early to tell. King and Bytel need to come on.

Did well to find Marshall and Wilkie as rookies.

I just don’t like trading out first round picks but I guess we had to do that to bring in Hill because our drafting has been poor.

 

[Drake Huggins]

I'll have a go:

Paton Howard Wilkie
Roberton Carlisle Coffield
Hill Ross Jones
Billings Battle Membrey
Gresham Ryder Butler

Marshall Steele Hannebury

Dunstan Clark Parker Hind

s**t this is difficult. Makes you realise how unbalanced we are. Needs less at the ends and more in the middle.

Looking forward to the day when Bytel can claim a place in the centre there. He is one of our few options, but needs experience in the reserves for now.
.
Where the hell am I supposed to put King, Long, Webster, Savage, Geary, Sinclair and Lonie?

Only need Winx from that lot, Austinnn. The rest are for depth. Hush now. Don't worry that handsome head of yours. All is good.

 

[StickyMick]

Where would you rather nominate? Carlton who totally failed to get deals done or St Kilda who did what needed to be done? Think this was a big advertisement to the club moving forward, if we follow it up with a good year next year the sky is the limit.

Hanners took a chance IMO... he was coming into a boring club, led by a vanilla coach. If it was his connection with Lethers that paved the way then that's awesome.

The five new rec ruits are onboard thanks to the buzz around Linton St. A coach with energy, experience and superb player relationships. One of the most loved and respected football people ever in Roughie. An elite facility in a desirable location. An admin that finally seems to have it's s**t together. And an untapped supporter base that is absolutely frothing for success.

We just need to translate all of that into wins and a finals berth in 2020.

And that's when St Kilda will become a destination that's not just an option to FA's and OOC players but a club that players want to be be part of.

Yeah things are certainly pointing to a 'lid off' scenario in the next couple of years if we keep trending this way. Exciting times for everyone with ties to the club indeed.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Has anyone else heard the whisper that Mc paddy has no plans on retirement and is going to be trying for his spot in the side

On G3226 using BigFooty.com mobile app

God , dont get me started again , i take it this is a joke

 

[AaronSCHQ]

Good post. You have highlighted the list cloggers that I would move on tomorrow without hesitation. Unfortunately no other club was interested in any of them. The Joyce and McKenzie decisions are ludicrous.

I assume we delist and redraft someone. I would delist all those out of contract and redraft the one we want to keep. Other clubs never jump in and draft them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Second list lodgement will be interesting. I see value in brown, Newnes and white. Moreso than Joyce given latest recruits. Won’t be surprised to see 1-2 delisted and rookie listed. Potentially 1 or 2 players delisted and paid out early but not sure that clubs do this often; not a great look or great business.

 

[Spider Eater]

There's at least 4 or 5 parts to this I find hilarious.

View attachment 766495

I'm shocked


3 girlfriends!