List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part V

[Sir Skid]

Joyce is cat A. Biggy can’t be cat B.

Might be one or the other.
Joyce not so needed now in terms of KP's

 

[Sainteric]

Strategy was obvious, implementation was impeccable.

Prior to the trade period identified the need for (amongst other things)

Outside run, spread and class (Hill), midfield speed (Jones), back up ruckman (Ryder), replacement full back (Howard), pressure forwards (Butler). As they progressively became available prior to the trade periodwe targeted them and got them all through perfect trade implementation. Pick swap with GWS a masterstroke.

Now unless I missed Dusty Martin being available for Pick 6 who else should we have targeted?

Really that's hindsight at best.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

With the draft picks we have , it probably makes no difference if we put Wilkie on the main list and rookie another, or if we keep him as a Rookie and draft somebody.

Currently we have Wilkie , Mayo, Marsh and Langlands as rookies.
If we take longshot players in the draft, we get first dibs. ( last draft picks ) but we probably have to pay them more than a rookie.
If we want to take them in the rookie draft we have to promote some.

Joyce only opens up a Cat B spot.

If Biggy slides to the rookie draft, can be be taken as a Cat B?

Yeah I suppose the issue with drafting in the ND is you're locked into a 2 year deal on a long shot. The $$ aren't an issue, it's the term of contract (which makes the Dmac deal even more perplexing). Wilkie already has a 2 year extension so he's an obvious upgrade on draft night if we don't like what is available.

Personally I like Marsh... reckon he could be very handy after a solid pre-season. Mayo has some talent so he's a keeper too.

Reckon Biggy has to be a Cat A rookie.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Really that's hindsight at best.

Reckon you're making it an issue just to make it an issue.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

The Roar gave us a B rating because being edgy is the cool thing to do

Remember when the Roar wrote an article at the start of the year that just destroyed our whole existence?

 

[John2010362340]

Compared to StKilda's team of AA mids?

Well we had our fair share of the ball just couldn’t execute.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'll always argue that the damage was done prior to the rebuild starting. That's why we had so many holes to fill and very little trade currency to fill them.

To compound that the rebuild was smashed by compromised drafts, the elimination of priority picks, the introduction of free agency and the resultant reality that FA's forgo $$ to sign with stronger clubs, moving to Seaford, no money to get quality recruiters in, unforeseen injury disasters in Paddy, Hugh, Robbo and even Stuv... the list is bloody endless.

It's been a perfect storm that has gone on for too long.

It's been a minor miracle that we've managed to build a competitive team IMO.

there's also the small matter of Brisbane

 

[Sainteric]

Reckon you're making it an issue just to make it an issue.

I'm not totally against what they have done,. But I disagree there was a grand strategy. Surely if their was a strategy other than turning the list over it would have started with quality inside kids.

 

[jwikked]

The Roar gave us a B rating because being edgy is the cool thing to do

The Roar must have a bee in their bonnet when it comes to the Saints, it was only a week or two ago they put out a trash article that made no sense that was shitting on us. Poorly written, it was very forgettable and I can’t even remember what it was about.

 

[bergholt]

With the draft picks we have , it probably makes no difference if we put Wilkie on the main list and rookie another, or if we keep him as a Rookie and draft somebody.

We can only count one promotion as one of the three compulsory ND picks. We can do as many promotions as we want if we have spots, but only one of them can count. So we have to have at least two picks of new players in the draft.

 

[The Punter]

Remember when the Roar wrote an article at the start of the year that just destroyed our whole existence?

It wasn't me.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

Is there any point in de-listing -rookieing under the current rules?

Brown is better than Joyce, but we just got Howard, and Joyce is 22. ( 4 years AFL experience) so i can't see Brown as better "value".


Right now we have 40 on the list. 4 Rookies, and 2 Cat B Rookies.

We need to clear three spots on the main list.
Brown was told he may not be needed depending on the trade results. Howard in - Brown out.
Rice is probably obvious.
I'd say White will be the third, though it will upset some people.

Joyce is worth promoting.
Langlands promote or 3rd year?

Langlands contract on footywire said 2020 so I assume one more year on rookie list. Unless 2020 was a new contract we signed him too this year and we need to upgrade. Suppose we will know soon.

 

[Impatient Saint]

This trade period is a reality check for Richo. He would be sitting there thinking WHY couldnt we get those players in whilst I was coach. The reality is Richo you were as boring as 'bat sh!t' and the entire AFL knew that. Enjoy your retirement at Melbourne you incompetent fossil.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Simon Lethlean on SEN Breakfast (17/10/19)

St Kilda Head of Football Simon Lethlean joined Garry and Tim to discuss the five moves the club made in the trade period and the hopes for next season.

player.whooshkaa.com

Excellent to listen to. Lethers gives really good insight into the strategies, and luck at times, behind all the trades.
Thanks for posting.

* Love how he forgot who the 5th player was.....Hill!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I'm not totally against what they have done,. But I disagree there was a grand strategy. Surely if their was a strategy other than turning the list over it would have started with quality inside kids.

I think you're totally underplaying how much planning and work goes into getting into a position to have 5 players nominate and then get into the club.

The strategy that started in 2013 was to get the best talent in as the list was in an absolute mess. Very few talented young players to build from. As I posted before, that strategy became flawed due to a range of issues, many outside the control of those at the club at the time. When that plan failed, those guys lost their jobs and were replaced. The new ones in charge then updated what they decided was the correct approach... they weren't at ground zero like the guys in 2013 as Ameet and Trout had done a reasonable job in putting together the parts of a decent team. There were undoubtedly significant holes due to the reasons previously mentioned but it was not 'rebuild 2.0' as many have painted in.

Now we have what is virtually a new off field team to push their own vision of how the list needs to be managed... the 'grand strategy' isn't one that the club has had since they ripped it down by trading McEvoy and letting Dal go. It's a plan based on what they have inherited... a list with little to no elite talent in their prime, a group of unfulfilled talents approaching their prime and a heap of unproven kids.

If you think that Gubby and Satan especially went into this critical period with a 'let's see what plays out' attitude then you're hugely mistaken.

They had a very specific plan (that was backed up by Shags O'Shaughnessy the analytics expert) that they executed.

We now have 5 new players that will help the unfulfilled talent to improve. We all just hope that the improvement from Gresh, JB, Roma, Battle, King and co will be enough drive us back into contention.

 

[FQFjt]

Overall, happy with the outcome.

Yes we've lost some quality, but we will also be bringing in a huge amount of talent into our side that was not or hardly available last year. I can't recall any team receiving such a boost in one preseason. And if we get a dream injury run like Richmond 2017 or Brisbane 2019, then anything is possible.

Players not/barely available in 2018:

• Roberton
• King
• Geary
• Webster
• Hannebery
• Hill
• Jones
• Ryder
• Howard
• Bytel

 

[StCicatriz]

I think you're totally underplaying how much planning and work goes into getting into a position to have 5 players nominate and then get into the club.

The strategy that started in 2013 was to get the best talent in as the list was in an absolute mess. Very few talented young players to build from. As I posted before, that strategy became flawed due to a range of issues, many outside the control of those at the club at the time. When that plan failed, those guys lost their jobs and were replaced. The new ones in charge then updated what they decided was the correct approach... they weren't at ground zero like the guys in 2013 as Ameet and Trout had done a reasonable job in putting together the parts of a decent team. There were undoubtedly significant holes due to the reasons previously mentioned but it was not 'rebuild 2.0' as many have painted in.

Now we have what is virtually a new off field team to push their own vision of how the list needs to be managed... the 'grand strategy' isn't one that the club has had since they ripped it down by trading McEvoy and letting Dal go. It's a plan based on what they have inherited... a list with little to no elite talent in their prime, a group of unfulfilled talents approaching their prime and a heap of unproven kids.

If you think that Gubby and Satan especially went into this critical period with a 'let's see what plays out' attitude then you're hugely mistaken.

They had a very specific plan (that was backed up by Shags O'Shaughnessy the analytics expert) that they executed.

We now have 5 new players that will help the unfulfilled talent to improve. We all just hope that the improvement from Gresh, JB, Roma, Battle, King and co will be enough drive us back into contention.

i think there is a strategy, but i don't think all the players we got were being worked on earlier in the year. Hill & Jones yes. But Howard was a very late acquisition as was Butler. Ryder between the two examples.

i think we need to separate Strategy from Acquisition here. they are two different things. Acquiring players will allow you to meet the Strategy, but who you acquire will change with circumstance dictating when and how you get them. Howard is a good example of this. I reckon we had a strategy of replacing Carlisle and Brown, but Howard would not have been an option until very late and probably caught them off guard as to the unexpected nature of Port letting him go.

i think the overall Strategy involves becoming as competitive as possible as quick as we can. it's emphasis is on the short term. i think it's inline with Ratts tenure. i reckon there's 3 years to make a real fist of it. but there will be a view to make sure we still bring U18s through to make it sustainable.

 

[sasaint]

We can only count one promotion as one of the three compulsory ND picks. We can do as many promotions as we want if we have spots, but only one of them can count. So we have to have at least two picks of new players in the draft.

I’d put money on our fi pick being ruck depth.

 

[DGontheQT]

you literally asked if i was s**t stirring, my response was how can leaving a bloke out of a hypothetical side be considered s**t stirring unless of course you get offended if someone's opinion doesn't align to yours.

i think you need to relax.

your opinion is that there is no way carlisle will be an emergency. my opinion is that he won't get back to his best and others will go past him. i don't see him as one of the 1st picked. not anymore. hell i wouldn't be surprised if he has more injuries, given his history.

i don't think it's the lock you think it is.

Carlisle has me worried too. I noticed what you have , but I'm hoping having some time to freshen up , and an unrestricted pre season will see him back to replicate his best form.

 

[Diehard Saint]

i think there is a strategy, but i don't think all the players we got were being worked on earlier in the year. Hill & Jones yes. But Howard was a very late acquisition as was Butler. Ryder between the two examples.

i think we need to separate Strategy from Acquisition here. they are two different things. Acquiring players will allow you to meet the Strategy, but who you acquire will change with circumstance dictating when and how you get them. Howard is a good example of this. I reckon we had a strategy of replacing Carlisle and Brown, but Howard would not have been an option until very late and probably caught them off guard as to the unexpected nature of Port letting him go.

i think the overall Strategy involves becoming as competitive as possible as quick as we can. it's emphasis is on the short term. i think it's inline with Ratts tenure. i reckon there's 3 years to make a real fist of it. but there will be a view to make sure we still bring U18s through to make it sustainable.

Lethers admitted as much.
Hill and even Jones and Ryder were on our radar pretty early in the piece.
Howard was definitely speculative and almost fell into our laps as he fell out of favour at Port, although we still had to get hm to choose us.
Butler a last minute pick up.

What I did like was that they obviously had a plan B, expecting a problem with Bell and had the pick swap planned previously up their sleeves. Definitely showed forward planning.

 

[cooperrules]

Will interesting to see how blake goes playing in the one possie. Freo said they want to settle him in as a wing or inside mid.

 

[MrFoster]

This trade period is a reality check for Richo. He would be sitting there thinking WHY couldnt we get those players in whilst I was coach. The reality is Richo you were as boring as 'bat sh!t' and the entire AFL knew that. Enjoy your retirement at Melbourne you incompetent fossil.

Haha.. you watch Melbourne turn into this high pressure intensity team Richo heavily focused on, and in turn their skills level (wasn't that great to start with) will drop off even further... bottom 5 team again next year.

 

[tbarker]

Its ludicrous that you believe the Joyce decision is ludicrous.

Why?
He is yet to show me anything other than good general mobility for a big man. In fact - his last senior appearance was downright horrible. Reminded me of the car crash that was Hugh Goddard's last senior game for us. It is ludicrous because there is no need to lock him in for 3 years based on his body of work to date. Lock him in until for 12 month contracts until he has shown something and then consider a longer deal to keep him away from other clubs. Tell me a single club that is remotely interested in Joyce? Same for McKenzie. Not one single bite from anyone and we have him on a 3 year deal.

 

[Parkysp]

i think there is a strategy, but i don't think all the players we got were being worked on earlier in the year. Hill & Jones yes. But Howard was a very late acquisition as was Butler. Ryder between the two examples.

i think we need to separate Strategy from Acquisition here. they are two different things. Acquiring players will allow you to meet the Strategy, but who you acquire will change with circumstance dictating when and how you get them. Howard is a good example of this. I reckon we had a strategy of replacing Carlisle and Brown, but Howard would not have been an option until very late and probably caught them off guard as to the unexpected nature of Port letting him go.

i think the overall Strategy involves becoming as competitive as possible as quick as we can. it's emphasis is on the short term. i think it's inline with Ratts tenure. i reckon there's 3 years to make a real fist of it. but there will be a view to make sure we still bring U18s through to make it sustainable.

Agree and Lethlean said as much on SEN this morning about Howard and Butler. Basis of a good strategy in the modern world is to be agile and adapt to situations as they come up. I am sure that they went in to the past few weeks being ready to jump if a player got shaken out of the tree that they hadn't previously considered. We got lucky but had the plan in place ready to pounce to make the most of it.
I'm happy we retained our first round pick next year so we have option to go back to the draft.

 

[Lightsxo]

Has anyone else heard the whisper that Mc paddy has no plans on retirement and is going to be trying for his spot in the side

On G3226 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, they said off hand on trade radio that it was confirmed that Paddy will attempt a comeback next year.