Resource 2019 General AFL Discussion

BrutThough

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Or could it be that he's just not very good? Perhaps other clubs jut select better players with their picks. Carlton get players who look like guns form day one but some that are absolute lemons. Brisbane had a heap of GOPs then all of a sudden started nailing their picks. Same with Melbourne. Coffield is another rebound back in a huge pool of rebound backs, we also went and got Marsh, Wilkie and Hind who are all rebound backs who are now a long way in front of him. I would guess the club aren't backing him to make it. At least they are giving him a go in midfield now, probably his only chance. White and Rice are in a similar boat.
He is one year and 4 rounds into his career. Probably going a bit early on the "club don't think he will make it" angle.
Some kids need time to grow into their body and understand what is required at AFL level.
Just because he isnt a "star" immediately, doesn't mean we stuffed up the pick or he won't make it.
People develop at different speeds and that's okay.
 

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gringo2011

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Agree with a lot of that except the last bit. Its 3 weeks into his second year. He could still make it in many positions.

He could still, but the players you target means they think it's an area of weakness still. He's got time and as a high pick will get extra but he'd want to start moving soon. Compare him to Naughton or Stephenson and he doesn't look I the same ball park.
 

gringo2011

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He is one year and 4 rounds into his career. Probably going a bit early on the "club don't think he will make it" angle.
Some kids need time to grow into their body and understand what is required at AFL level.
Just because he isnt a "star" immediately, doesn't mean we stuffed up the pick or he won't make it.
People develop at different speeds and that's okay.

If you were confident in him you probably wouldn't get multiple options for that role when you already have a solid starting set up. I not saying he won't make it, but it's possibility. He's got plenty of competition for his spot now, we just made it much harder to even develop him.
 

plugger66

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He could still, but the players you target means they think it's an area of weakness still. He's got time and as a high pick will get extra but he'd want to start moving soon. Compare him to Naughton or Stephenson and he doesn't look I the same ball park.

No he doesn't but I could probably 40 from the draft where he is in the same boat. Constable didn't play a game last year so just 5 games a go people would have said he is a bust.
 

BrutThough

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If you were confident in him you probably wouldn't get multiple options for that role when you already have a solid starting set up. I not saying he won't make it, but it's possibility. He's got plenty of competition for his spot now, we just made it much harder to even develop him.
The club has always said the aim is for him to become a midfielder long term.

The three players you listed - Marsh, Wilke and Hind - aren't some commentary of Coffield and his long term prospects at the club and they shouldn't have any impact on Coffield's development as a midfielder who can also play at half back. Coffield is much more talented than all three of those players but they are all 3-5 years older with stronger, harder bodies and have spent years playing at the lower level getting use to bigger hits.

Anyway, they are all pretty different to Coffield. Marsh is a key position player and selected late to fill a list need after can abundance of key position injuries. Wilkie was drafted as insurance for Roberton who can step in immediately if needed so we dont have to play kids before they are ready. Hind is 11cm smaller than Coffield, so shouldn't be a threat for his position at all.
 

Joffaboy

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When did Coffield ever have swagger? During his draft period everyone called him 'safe'.

And whoever reckoned Rozee over King @ 4
 

StCicatriz

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If we can't make coffield work then nothing will ever work
Do you think Coffield would be playing in the reserves if he was selected by the Dogs? Of course we don’t have a definitive answer but I think he’d be lining up in the ones.

The Dogs new recruits under Bevo traditionally have swagger & I don’t think it’s any coincidence.

Do they target players with extreme confidence? Bont, Naughton, Macrae, Smith, etc

Does Bevo develop them in a way that gives them confidence to be themselves & not scared to make a mistake?

On the other hand is our club running a military camp that was suited to footy teams in the 80s or have we evolved to deal with teenagers in the current era?!

Kids of this generation will rebel against authority. They are entitled. I suspect Bevo has nailed this very aspect hence getting more out of his new recruits.

Imagine being Naughton, a 19 year old, & Bevo tapping you on the shoulder saying you are our key post. Or Smith & Bevo slotting you straight in the guts.

Now imagine our coaching team saying to Coffield you will play for Sandy until you work on your defensive game & rotting away for the best part of two years.
 

StCicatriz

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I labelled Clark vanilla as did a bunch of others

But I don't think we had labelled Coff safe. More had to get the kid.

I wanted king tbh but if it's a mid rozee or was it Caldwell?
When did Coffield ever have swagger? During his draft period everyone called him 'safe'.

And whoever reckoned Rozee over King @ 4
 

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gringo2011

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The club has always said the aim is for him to become a midfielder long term.

The three players you listed - Marsh, Wilke and Hind - aren't some commentary of Coffield and his long term prospects at the club and they shouldn't have any impact on Coffield's development as a midfielder who can also play at half back. Coffield is much more talented than all three of those players but they are all 3-5 years older with stronger, harder bodies and have spent years playing at the lower level getting use to bigger hits.

Anyway, they are all pretty different to Coffield. Marsh is a key position player and selected late to fill a list need after can abundance of key position injuries. Wilkie was drafted as insurance for Roberton who can step in immediately if needed so we dont have to play kids before they are ready. Hind is 11cm smaller than Coffield, so shouldn't be a threat for his position at all.

It means he has to make it as a mid though, he's got to jump all those guys and more to even get into the senior side. He's going to have to be so good when he comes in they don't want to drop him. Guys like Austin and White put up really good numbers and couldn't hold a spot. He's going to have to do that and more. Our midfield is still a weak point, his best chance is as a mid. Marsh isn't a KP according to my Collingwood mates. They say he's more Marley Williams than Nathan Brown. They think he could make it as a mid.
 

gringo2011

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If we can't make coffield work then nothing will ever work

Why? What has he shown that says he'll definitely make it. He's had a pretty handy first few games but he's no better or worse off than any other player. His draft position means nothing. I hope he does make it, it's no certainty though. I'm glad they have moved him to the midfield at Sandy though.
 

saintsmania

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I think the issue lies with our development program. Melbourne and Tiggies are classic examples of stuffing up picks for years and not developing talent. Surely it wasn't luck when we drafted our team of champions in early 2000s. Of all the recent recruiting barring Gresh we haven't picked a readymade star who has performed from day 1.

We stuffed up a golden opportunity to pick a star with pick 1 when we picked paddy. Concussion knocks couldn't even been predicted but TBH he never showed anything worthy of being a top pick.
 

triggering bro

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When did Coffield ever have swagger? During his draft period everyone called him 'safe'.

And whoever reckoned Rozee over King @ 4
In his draft year Coffield looked like a confident alpha with leadership qualities. Now it appears he’s been put back into his place.

It’s the culture of the current admin & footy depart that has been built over the past 6 years. Everyone must know their place. No room for outspoken alpha dogs only betas. And if you show any confidence you will be broken down brick by brick until you are meek & accepting just like what occurred with Billings. Long’s been given a whack & Coffield is currently being deconstructed.

You have to admire some of the other clubs we usually loathe, such as Essendon. They would be parading their young stars around & treating them like gods.

Agree regarding King. He will be a star & I doubt even Cho could break his will. I reckon he’d tell Cho where to go! Can’t wait until he’s fit & rating to go!
 

triggering bro

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I think the issue lies with our development program. Melbourne and Tiggies are classic examples of stuffing up picks for years and not developing talent. Surely it wasn't luck when we drafted our team of champions in early 2000s. Of all the recent recruiting barring Gresh we haven't picked a readymade star who has performed from day 1.

We stuffed up a golden opportunity to pick a star with pick 1 when we picked paddy. Concussion knocks couldn't even been predicted but TBH he never showed anything worthy of being a top pick.
Culture. Plain & simple. GT for all his flaws created a positive atmosphere amongst the playing group. He empowered them to become leaders. Our current group are enforced to be good blokes that tow the line. And if you don’t, they’ll hang you out to dry just like they did with Carlisle during Murphy-gate! I reckon GT would’ve backed him to the hilt & built everlasting TRUST.
 

VDS66

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We need more outspoken, shredded, ripped, buffed alpha dog males...

Because 22 outspoken individuals who do t want to follow a team ethos is a surefire guarantee to win a flag.

Just look at Essendon...
 

SaintersUnite

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In his draft year Coffield looked like a confident alpha with leadership qualities. Now it appears he’s been put back into his place.

It’s the culture of the current admin & footy depart that has been built over the past 6 years. Everyone must know their place. No room for outspoken alpha dogs only betas. And if you show any confidence you will be broken down brick by brick until you are meek & accepting just like what occurred with Billings. Long’s been given a whack & Coffield is currently being deconstructed.

You have to admire some of the other clubs we usually loathe, such as Essendon. They would be parading their young stars around & treating them like gods.

Agree regarding King. He will be a star & I doubt even Cho could break his will. I reckon he’d tell Cho where to go! Can’t wait until he’s fit & rating to go!
Sorry mate but you’re talking out your arse. No club would go out of their way to control their players in a way that stifles their confidence and swagger. Tell me how Parker, Gresham, Lonie and Bruce all still have confidence and flair about them then.


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triggering bro

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Sorry mate but you’re talking out your arse. No club would go out of their way to control their players in a way that stifles their confidence and swagger. Tell me how Parker, Gresham, Lonie and Bruce all still have confidence and flair about them then.


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Gee mate I reckon Lonie & Bruce have been put in their place big time. Parker - give it time it’s still early days. Gresh might just about be unbreakable. I don’t think he cops it tbh.
 

SaintersUnite

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Gee mate I reckon Lonie & Bruce have been put in their place big time. Parker - give it time it’s still early days. Gresh might just about be unbreakable. I don’t think he cops it tbh.
Agree to disagree. I think Lonie still shows his feistiness quite often. And Bruce is just one of those alpha males that carries the team on his back.

I don’t think it’s fair to single out other players and label them unbreakable. I think it’s just a cheap way of getting it to fit your narrative.


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triggering bro

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Agree to disagree. I think Lonie still shows his feistiness quite often. And Bruce is just one of those alpha males that carries the team on his back.

I don’t think it’s fair to single out other players and label them unbreakable. I think it’s just a cheap way of getting it to fit your narrative.


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Not cheap at all. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the body of evidence over the past 6-7 years. Are we just incredibly unlucky having only a couple of outliers (Gresh &....?) or is there a problem with the strategy the club has employed to develop its players?

Identify & recognise the issue & resolve the issue. If you are stuck at the first part you will not fix the problem. Plain & simple. Unless you don’t see any issues & everything is fine & dandy? I don’t know about you but I’m sick to death of not playing finals & not developing A grade talent!
 

gringo2011

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Culture. Plain & simple. GT for all his flaws created a positive atmosphere amongst the playing group. He empowered them to become leaders. Our current group are enforced to be good blokes that tow the line. And if you don’t, they’ll hang you out to dry just like they did with Carlisle during Murphy-gate! I reckon GT would’ve backed him to the hilt & built everlasting TRUST.

GT was ahead of his time, this generation would be much more suited to what GT did with his players. He loved the players and treated the like his sons. He was pretty much on their level and in it together not an authoritarian overload. He copped shit at the time but now managing millennials it would be perfect.

Yeah GT would have probably had a go at captain ^%# himself.
 

SaintersUnite

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Not cheap at all. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the body of evidence over the past 6-7 years. Are we just incredibly unlucky having only a couple of outliers (Gresh &....?) or is there a problem with the strategy the club has employed to develop its players?

Identify & recognise the issue & resolve the issue. If you are stuck at the first part you will not fix the problem. Plain & simple. Unless you don’t see any issues & everything is fine & dandy? I don’t know about you but I’m sick to death of not playing finals & not developing A grade talent!
I’m fully aware that everything is not fine and dandy, that’s not my argument. My argument is that the club and forcing players to fit into a regime where they just follow orders and act how the club seems best.

The past 6-7 years I would put down to Trout recruiting players of “good nature”. They came into the club with the mindset of being good boys. I wouldn’t say the club forced them to act that way at all.


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gringo2011

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Not cheap at all. The proof is in the pudding. Look at the body of evidence over the past 6-7 years. Are we just incredibly unlucky having only a couple of outliers (Gresh &....?) or is there a problem with the strategy the club has employed to develop its players?

Identify & recognise the issue & resolve the issue. If you are stuck at the first part you will not fix the problem. Plain & simple. Unless you don’t see any issues & everything is fine & dandy? I don’t know about you but I’m sick to death of not playing finals & not developing A grade talent!

Some of it is probably not having good older leaders to learn from and the club under Finnis seems to want to maintain a very wholesome image after we lost a lot of potential money off the back of the school girl saga and dwarf gate at a time we should have been making hay.

Last year we seem to have made big strides in bringing in high level assistants and off field staff. I wish we could get a real gun recruiter still. When I watch recruitment videos we have a war room of about 10 guys who all seem to want a say. No one is a big dick recruiter who tells the clueless campaigners to shut the **** up and listen to him. Libba seems like a good bloke but we need him to take the bull by the horns and tell them he's the boss and he'll listen to others on his terms.

Something isn't working though with drafting/ development, we seriously have the least obvious young talent pile in the competition. Gresham and Billings are the two best but only Gresham looks like a player who will take the team with him and win a match. Compare it to Brisbane and there are half a dozen kids that you are pretty confident will be A grade to elite. Carlton has Cripps and Curnow along side Walsh and Dow who look likely too. Bulldogs bought in Naughton who looks like he'll be a generational gun. I just wish we could start to turn that around fast. No pressure on Kingy but he's carry all our hopes and dreams on his wonky knee.
 
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