Discussion 2019 General AFL Discussion

[StCicatriz]

Sorry George you are so wrong wrong wrong on so many levels with those comments.

So what did Goodes actually say

Well here's the full transcript of the interview - once its finished Goodes has no control over what and how the media chooses to report.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/255a9b49ef91175be4e6d73a8c26a30c

Oh look what they forgot to include

"And all this week, you know, this week is a celebration of our people and our culture and the absolute privilege of meeting the great man Nicky Winmar two days ago now and what he's been able to do for us 20 years ago and to be able to make a stand myself and say racism has a face last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it's not her fault.

She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her. Unfortunately it's what she hears, the environment she's grown up in that has made her think it's ok to call people names."

Unfortunately you've blindly accepted what the media said and as a result have re-endorsed the casual (and not so casual) racism that most definitely exists in the country.

couldn't agree more, well put.

 

[George]

Sorry George you are so wrong wrong wrong on so many levels with those comments.

So what did Goodes actually say

Well here's the full transcript of the interview - once its finished Goodes has no control over what and how the media chooses to report.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...t/news-story/255a9b49ef91175be4e6d73a8c26a30c

Oh look what they forgot to include

"And all this week, you know, this week is a celebration of our people and our culture and the absolute privilege of meeting the great man Nicky Winmar two days ago now and what he's been able to do for us 20 years ago and to be able to make a stand myself and say racism has a face last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it's not her fault.

She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don't put any blame on her. Unfortunately it's what she hears, the environment she's grown up in that has made her think it's ok to call people names."

Unfortunately you've blindly accepted what the media said and as a result have re-endorsed the casual (and not so casual) racism that most definitely exists in the country.

Haven't blindly accepted anything, but thanks for the assumption. I stand corrected. I hadn't been able to bring up the full transcript of what was said, but my point still stands. He said she's so innocent and it's not her fault - So tell me why in the moment did he have to stop after the ball went over the boundary to turn around and not continue playing until she was escorted out of the ground. He is a hypocrite. If he was such a great ambassador and a role model for young children and he identified that the person calling him names was a child, he should've gone and raised it with the AFL after the game or even raise it then and there but don't point directly at her so the TV cameras pan over to her and humiliate her not just in that moment but for the years and years following it. This is why the crowd booed and continued booing him until he retired. It was piss poor, weak, and should've been dealt with much more professionally than it was. But then for him to have the nerve to say that everyone booing him from then on is also a racist - complete rubbish.

i gotta disagree strongly with that sorry George....
by not pointing it out all it does is create a get out clause for racisim ... at what point does a person become old enough to be held accountable for their actions ? 15, 18, 21 ?? honestly the way goodes made his stand while bringing shame to the young girl it also opend up a discussion about how behaviours of parents gets passed down to the kids... the girl in question was looked after and was provided education and support after being called out..
while not ideal that a young girl was put in the public eye i think unless you have been on the recieving end of racial abuse you cant really understand the emotions that flow from it ... im 100% sure Goodes wishes he was never racially villifyed by the girl... but he was... so he had the choice to either a do nothing and in the mind of the girl her coments are acceptable and she grows up thinking thats acceptable or he points it out and cops the critisim of pointing it out...
the follow up booing was mostly racial motivated.. people tryed to excuse it cause he was a dirty player or he was a flog or they just dont like him or as you said he made an example of young girl but for a vast percentage of people booing him it was because he turned a mirror on a behaviour that they felt uncomfortable facing... it put goodes in an unfortunate position because while his community needed him to stay strong on the matter it was causing a divide so while the hopes to push closer to an end of racism it actually put the cause back a few steps ..

to end racism there needs to be a feeling that we are all the same with the goodes thing it gave the power back to the racist to drive a wedge between us all and from my recent footy going experiance the crowd behaviour since the goodes issue has brought the game closer to the era where Nicky made his stand then the era after where we let footballers just be footballers ...

He has every right to point it out, that's not the issue at all. Issue was him putting a child on national television and calling her out for her racist remark. She shouldn't have said it, but like HE said, shes innocent, so why do that to an innocent person. Her family should've had a please explain from the AFL or gone into some kind of counselling before her.. He didn't have only two choices in that moment. Do nothing or call her out you say? Nah, he could've done something and not call her out at the same time.

And the follow up booing was not racially motivated, sorry I don't buy that at all. That's media spin. If you really think that then you basically think I am a racist, and that's laughable. I would never boo any player at the football for whatever reason, I think it's a stupid thing to do to begin with. But I was most definitely sick and tired of him politicising the game and painting all booing football fans with the same brush. That's incredibly stupid from his end. People didn't boo Eddie Betts when he made stands against racism, or Lewis Jetta or any other indigenous player. And it's not because Goodes "pointed it out". It's because he had the whole situation backwards. It's sad to think that he thought people were booing him because they were racists. We celebrate players like Winmar and Betts and others who have stood up before / proud to be indigenous. We celebrate players like Majak Daw & Aliir Aliir. Bachar Houli, and others that have a voice for their communities. I don't think any of those players have ever been booed before. Goodes hasn't been the only one to call it out - yet he is the one who copped it the most. I think it's pretty obvious why.

A guy calls out racism.

Our response: Racism is bad BUT that's a pretty poor way to go about calling it out.

What our response should be: RACISM IS BAD!

In the words of Jon Snow (from Game of Thrones): everything before the word but is horseshit.

I will always be reluctant to criticise someone for how they react when they experience something that vile. I will never know what it is like to experience that and for me to criticise someone for their response seems to be the ultimate example of entitlement/privilege.

P.S. if i did need to elaborate on what our response should be it would be this: How incredibly sad is it that a 13 year old girl has somehow picked up that that is an acceptable thing to say. What example are her parents or those around her setting? Where did she pick this up from? It is just a poor reflection on our society. (and yes, i fully acknowledge that she didn't know what the words she said meant - but that does not mean that Goodes wouldn't have felt the pain of them)

So racism is bad no matter how you call it out. Even if you humiliate a child (who doesn't know what she is saying and is influenced by her surroundings) in the process?

He should've brought attention to it but not in the way that he did. I don't even have issue with that as much as I do with the actions from Goodes following it. Getting booed because he is quite frankly a w***er and he then puts everyone in the same boat and labels them as racists. Some people get sick of having to deal with political issues when they go to watch a game of football. It's an escape for people. Two hours a week where they can forget about it. Yet here he is.

Why couldn't he have made a statement post game about the racial abuse from the crowd and to put a stop to it. He could've contacted the AFL and they could've got in touch with that childs family to offer counselling - which they eventually did, but instead he humiliated her and then told everyone it wasn't her fault.

 

[StCicatriz]

Haven't blindly accepted anything, but thanks for the assumption. I stand corrected. I hadn't been able to bring up the full transcript of what was said, but my point still stands. He said she's so innocent and it's not her fault - So tell me why in the moment did he have to stop after the ball went over the boundary to turn around and not continue playing until she was escorted out of the ground. He is a hypocrite. If he was such a great ambassador and a role model for young children and he identified that the person calling him names was a child, he should've gone and raised it with the AFL after the game or even raise it then and there but don't point directly at her so the TV cameras pan over to her and humiliate her not just in that moment but for the years and years following it. This is why the crowd booed and continued booing him until he retired. It was piss poor, weak, and should've been dealt with much more professionally than it was. But then for him to have the nerve to say that everyone booing him from then on is also a racist - complete rubbish.


He has every right to point it out, that's not the issue at all. Issue was him putting a child on national television and calling her out for her racist remark. She shouldn't have said it, but like HE said, shes innocent, so why do that to an innocent person. Her family should've had a please explain from the AFL or gone into some kind of counselling before her.. He didn't have only two choices in that moment. Do nothing or call her out you say? Nah, he could've done something and not call her out at the same time.

And the follow up booing was not racially motivated, sorry I don't buy that at all. That's media spin. If you really think that then you basically think I am a racist, and that's laughable. I would never boo any player at the football for whatever reason, I think it's a stupid thing to do to begin with. But I was most definitely sick and tired of him politicising the game and painting all booing football fans with the same brush. That's incredibly stupid from his end. People didn't boo Eddie Betts when he made stands against racism, or Lewis Jetta or any other indigenous player. And it's not because Goodes "pointed it out". It's because he had the whole situation backwards. It's sad to think that he thought people were booing him because they were racists. We celebrate players like Winmar and Betts and others who have stood up before / proud to be indigenous. We celebrate players like Majak Daw & Aliir Aliir. Bachar Houli, and others that have a voice for their communities. I don't think any of those players have ever been booed before. Goodes hasn't been the only one to call it out - yet he is the one who copped it the most. I think it's pretty obvious why.




So racism is bad no matter how you call it out. Even if you humiliate a child (who doesn't know what she is saying and is influenced by her surroundings) in the process?

He should've brought attention to it but not in the way that he did. I don't even have issue with that as much as I do with the actions from Goodes following it. Getting booed because he is quite frankly a w***er and he then puts everyone in the same boat and labels them as racists. Some people get sick of having to deal with political issues when they go to watch a game of football. It's an escape for people. Two hours a week where they can forget about it. Yet here he is.

Why couldn't he have made a statement post game about the racial abuse from the crowd and to put a stop to it. He could've contacted the AFL and they could've got in touch with that childs family to offer counselling - which they eventually did, but instead he humiliated her and then told everyone it wasn't her fault.

actually lewis jetta was boo'd when he played for sydney. it was a very uncomfortable issue for WCE and Jetta when he was traded there.

 

[George]

it was in the moment. i don't think he realised she was 13, until after he had already pointed the finger and made a stand. then he went off the ground realising what had happened. his comments after that did not attack her, he seemed to be very sympathetic to her age and situation. almost remorseful but also addressed racism within the community.

but let's suppose that's the issue here. is his reaction during the game to the racism that was inflicted on him, justification for booing him out of the game? to the point people were "glad to see him retire". is that really apt punishment for a perceived crime of how he reacted to racism?

as for this part "He then attributed THAT booing again to racism, which is so far from the reality of the situation it's not even funny" i'm sorry but that's 100% wrong based on my own personal experience sitting in that wce crowd that boo'd him and the general discussion over here. everything from monkey to ape to boong to abo. there's a section of that crowd that were racist. another section did not like it because he was very abrupt in highlighting how bad stuff is within indigenous communities. they do not like hearing it and in some strange way feel attacked by it, despite the fact they are in a much better position and are not experience the things he was trying to highlight.

i don't agree with his tact in highlighting those issues but i also hate the way people treated what was a champion of our game given the perceived wrongs he committed.

i mean for crying out loud, you can break a kids jaw on the footy field and cop it less. hell lets go further, you can sexually assault women and cop it less.

but god forbid you choose to abrasively highlight the plight of the indigenous people. nah that one means you have to leave the game.

Interesting. So you asked every single person that booed him what their reason was for booing? It's "100% wrong" based on your experience of one game. Well that's 100% wrong based on my experience here in Melbourne.

Injuring someone and sexual assault is completely different and honestly irrelevant. We've had many players stand up for their people over the last 25 years. Nicky Winmar was my favourite player growing up as a child. And none of them have copped the vitriol that Goodes did. Why do you think that is?

 

[George]

actually lewis jetta was boo'd when he played for sydney. it was a very uncomfortable issue for WCE and Jetta when he was traded there.

Swans fans booed him in his first game against them. Do you think it was 100% because of racism, or do you think they also booed him because he was a former player that left their club.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

See this is where the simple argument of racism breaks down.

Michael Long racially abused makes a stand
Sean Charles racially abused makes a stand
Nicky Winmar racially abused
Majak Daw
Eddie Betts, and probably many more I cant remember.

All made strong stands against racism.

None of them got booed for it.

Why Goodes? Why suddenly everyone is racist towards one guy with more pigment in his skin?

This is where the argument breaks down.

Was there an element of mob mentality racism? Of course, that was a part?

Was there resentment that Goodes would go in with the knees and not get sanctioned when others would? Or make threatening gestures to a crown and no sanctions when others would and still do?

Goodes thought his vehicle to promote himself was with our game. He thought he was bigger than it. When he got whacked his enablers thoughtlessly screamed racist at anyone booing Goodes.

The only good thing he did was selfishly play an extra year so we got Membrey. For that I am grateful to him.

where is the differance ... ok lets look at it
i think with the guys you mentioned their stands were perhaps less confronting as Goodes one was.. also i think the timing of goodes stand was seen as a build up of angst towards him over a period of time .. when Goodes got his Australian of the Year title he put lots and lots of noses out of joint by using his award win to further highlight the plight of his people.. the establishment didnt like that they wanted him to be thankful and moderate with it but he didnt he turned the spot light back on the people giving him the award...
you are correct in the fact Goodes did employ tactics that were not in the spirit of the game in regards to taking out the legs of players and as a two time brownlow medalist he certainly got the benifit of the doubt more often then not much to the frustrations of many but the booing only came along after he made the stand against the girl ... i think yes a collection of things led to him being boo'd but the fuse that started it all was his stand against racism so you can see how the week after he calls out racisim he gets constant boo's yet the week before he got none something fishy is going on in part i do think early on the boo's from the hawks fans were in relation to the actions on the field in that for the most part, it was the following weeks namely when he came to Perth and got boo's running through the banner that it had morphed into something else ..

Goodes is one player i have never met so i cant really comment on his character but i do know of many players who cannot speak highly enough of him so something doesnt quite fit with the narrative that he is a w***er because it seems to me at least the people who know him the least seem to have a perception on who the man is that is very far removed from the man that pretty much competition wide is regarded as one of the nicest most humble and giving blokes going around ...

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Don't forget that the way Goodes played was highly frowned upon. His sliding in action to get to the ball has led to one of the worst rules in the AFL; the contact below the knees rule that punishes players for going after the ball. He was doing that constantly at the time he was getting booed, but it was overlooked by the media, particularly journalists that were reporting it as purely a social issue ignoring the sporting context.

i think your time line might be a bit out .. Goodes was a frustrating player well before he was being boo'd the booing started the next week after his stand against racism ... so yeah people already didnt like him but it was only after he stood up against racisim in that game against collingwood did he start getting the boo's

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

He was actually never punished for the view, he broke policy surrounding a players code of conduct for social media. I agree, you can't stop someone having their religious views unless they break the law (which hate speech can be), you can expect them to keep their views out of public forums where they could alienate people who follow the game that pays him to play.

look i agree and the fact that he would have had a social media clause in his contract is often forgoten but the point i guess im trying to make is we do see worse thing posted by the people who run the country without as much fuss being made i think the need to make an example out of Folau has instead empowered a whole new group of people willing to spread the message Izzy was spreading ...

 

[StCicatriz]

Interesting. So you asked every single person that booed him what their reason was for booing? It's "100% wrong" based on your experience of one game. Well that's 100% wrong based on my experience here in Melbourne.

Injuring someone and sexual assault is completely different and honestly irrelevant. We've had many players stand up for their people over the last 25 years. Nicky Winmar was my favourite player growing up as a child. And none of them have copped the vitriol that Goodes did. Why do you think that is?

no i didn't have to ask everyone to that boo'd him... that's impossible for anyone to do. so if i can't prove that it was collectively racist, then like wise you can't discredit that either. right? so your statement was that "He then attributed THAT booing again to racism, which is so far from the reality of the situation it's not even funny" i was trying to tell you i saw the racism first hand. so his views on that are founded. there was a racist element in there. i mean i could go one step further and explain why even those who were booing him were doing it due to racism without themselves identifying it as such, which is what people have tried to argue, but people have trouble accepting that.

he didn't pull it from no where and dream up the racism inflicted on him. it was there! cannot you not see how he would have that view? plays football, cops racism, goes online cops racism, lives his life cops racism... so why wouldn't he think the booing is racially motivated?

how is it the publics past treatment of other actions irrelevant? it's 100% relevant to the discussion. i mean we are talking about publicly opposing someones actions here. people were so offended by goodes actions they decided to publicly make a stand. but we have players committing much worse and we don't here a whimper. why is that? break a kids jaw, won't boo that. sexually assault a woman. won't boo that. assault your partner. won't boo that. but goodes, yeah he's fair game!

as for Nicky i'd argue he copped it a lot worse. absolutely vile s**t. you just couldn't hear it in unison on tv. things have improved out of sight since then. i think there is less direct vile racism with the increase of population accounted for. the challenge now is addressing casual racism. many people do not know they do it. so how can it be corrected? hell many people do not even know how bad it is in indigenous communities.

like i said i do not agree with how goodes went about it. it's too abrasive. but i don't think he deserved what he got. others have done far far worse and come out of the game celebrated! i mean check out wayne carey.

 

[BeastKing]

So racism is bad no matter how you call it out. Even if you humiliate a child (who doesn't know what she is saying and is influenced by her surroundings) in the process?

He should've brought attention to it but not in the way that he did. I don't even have issue with that as much as I do with the actions from Goodes following it. Getting booed because he is quite frankly a w***er and he then puts everyone in the same boat and labels them as racists. Some people get sick of having to deal with political issues when they go to watch a game of football. It's an escape for people. Two hours a week where they can forget about it. Yet here he is.

Why couldn't he have made a statement post game about the racial abuse from the crowd and to put a stop to it. He could've contacted the AFL and they could've got in touch with that childs family to offer counselling - which they eventually did, but instead he humiliated her and then told everyone it wasn't her fault.

It's an instant reaction. He clearly did not have the time before he pointed to her to even realize who it was or how old she was.

Maybe watch this video which has 6 million views on it:




And then read the comments. Third most popular comment: "I thought she was 30 and not 13 cause she looked old af"

Other popular comments:

"13? She looks mom of five... She had hit puberty when other gurls of her age were learning to walk properly." 281 likes

"She’s old enough to know." 500 likes

"What the player did will be a big turning point in her life. Now she will question the teachings of the bigoted adults in her life." 1500 likes

But whatever. Keep quibbling about how he could have handled it better and act like he was not the victim.

And yeah, politicising football? Surely as a saints supporter, we should be more understanding than most considering Nicky Winmar is such an integral part of our history.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Obviously can't read past the first sentence.

Very constructive mate, well done.

 

[StCicatriz]

Swans fans booed him in his first game against them. Do you think it was 100% because of racism, or do you think they also booed him because he was a former player that left their club.

of course it was the latter. every past player is boo'd. literally every single one. hell i heard lycett boo'd on the weekend. which was then met with applause the next play latter. then boo'd again. jetta has never been boo'd by a WA crowd. i was there for the previous game vs WCE. so how did it turn into boos during that goodes game?

 

[StCicatriz]

It's an instant reaction. He clearly did not have the time before he pointed to her to even realize who it was or how old she was.

Maybe watch this video which has 6 million views on it:




And then read the comments. Third most popular comment: "I thought she was 30 and not 13 cause she looked old af"

Other popular comments:

"13? She looks mom of five... She had hit puberty when other gurls of her age were learning to walk properly." 281 likes

"She’s old enough to know." 500 likes

"What the player did will be a big turning point in her life. Now she will question the teachings of the bigoted adults in her life." 1500 likes

But whatever. Keep quibbling about how he could have handled it better and act like he was not the victim.

And yeah, politicising football? Surely as a saints supporter, we should be more understanding than most considering Nicky Winmar is such an integral part of our history.

nailed it

watching it live, i didn't realise she was 13 either. i thought it was an older lady going mental. it wasn't until they released she was a child that i realised.

now imagine you are goodes, in the moment, how is he to know?

tbh one thing i do think happened is that goodes knew he regularly copped racism when playing from the crowd. i think he knew it was going to happen coming into the game. i think he knew he was going to make a stand the first moment he copped it and he did. he reacted. without realising who did it. then he had to take that on. he obviousy was very shaken up by it, given he left the ground.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Haven't blindly accepted anything, but thanks for the assumption. I stand corrected. I hadn't been able to bring up the full transcript of what was said, but my point still stands. He said she's so innocent and it's not her fault - So tell me why in the moment did he have to stop after the ball went over the boundary to turn around and not continue playing until she was escorted out of the ground. He is a hypocrite. If he was such a great ambassador and a role model for young children and he identified that the person calling him names was a child, he should've gone and raised it with the AFL after the game or even raise it then and there but don't point directly at her so the TV cameras pan over to her and humiliate her not just in that moment but for the years and years following it. This is why the crowd booed and continued booing him until he retired. It was piss poor, weak, and should've been dealt with much more professionally than it was. But then for him to have the nerve to say that everyone booing him from then on is also a racist - complete rubbish.


He has every right to point it out, that's not the issue at all. Issue was him putting a child on national television and calling her out for her racist remark. She shouldn't have said it, but like HE said, shes innocent, so why do that to an innocent person. Her family should've had a please explain from the AFL or gone into some kind of counselling before her.. He didn't have only two choices in that moment. Do nothing or call her out you say? Nah, he could've done something and not call her out at the same time.

And the follow up booing was not racially motivated, sorry I don't buy that at all. That's media spin. If you really think that then you basically think I am a racist, and that's laughable. I would never boo any player at the football for whatever reason, I think it's a stupid thing to do to begin with. But I was most definitely sick and tired of him politicising the game and painting all booing football fans with the same brush. That's incredibly stupid from his end. People didn't boo Eddie Betts when he made stands against racism, or Lewis Jetta or any other indigenous player. And it's not because Goodes "pointed it out". It's because he had the whole situation backwards. It's sad to think that he thought people were booing him because they were racists. We celebrate players like Winmar and Betts and others who have stood up before / proud to be indigenous. We celebrate players like Majak Daw & Aliir Aliir. Bachar Houli, and others that have a voice for their communities. I don't think any of those players have ever been booed before. Goodes hasn't been the only one to call it out - yet he is the one who copped it the most. I think it's pretty obvious why.




So racism is bad no matter how you call it out. Even if you humiliate a child (who doesn't know what she is saying and is influenced by her surroundings) in the process?

He should've brought attention to it but not in the way that he did. I don't even have issue with that as much as I do with the actions from Goodes following it. Getting booed because he is quite frankly a w***er and he then puts everyone in the same boat and labels them as racists. Some people get sick of having to deal with political issues when they go to watch a game of football. It's an escape for people. Two hours a week where they can forget about it. Yet here he is.

Why couldn't he have made a statement post game about the racial abuse from the crowd and to put a stop to it. He could've contacted the AFL and they could've got in touch with that childs family to offer counselling - which they eventually did, but instead he humiliated her and then told everyone it wasn't her fault.

again i dont think anyone is saying its perfect ...but again unless you have been in the shoes of copping a racial attack you cant really ever know what was pumping through his veins at that time ... i still to this day have a life ban from a certain sports arena because i delt with it by throwing a basketball at the head of the person calling me a name that resulted in a fight, in that moment i wish i had the control of goodes but i didnt and i blew up ... i still to this day regret that and im sure Goodes has regrets about the way it played out for him .. but as STCiz says is the crime of going to far enough to boo a two time brownlow medalist out of the game ...
i dont think it is ...
as for the booing i was at both the Hawthorn game and the WCE game that goodes got booed and ill say 90% of the boos at the WCE game were followed by a racial slur ... that game was the first time i ever walked out cause i was sickened by the crowd behaviour

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Swans fans booed him in his first game against them. Do you think it was 100% because of racism, or do you think they also booed him because he was a former player that left their club.

no WCE fans boo'd him when he was in swans colours ... when he came to the WCE it was awkard cause they treated him like crap and now he was in their colours they we going to cheer for him ... that said when he first started with the WCE and wasnt performing good enough the hate towards him was shocking and even today he get labled 'lazy" if he isnt BOG ...

 

[StCicatriz]

See this is where the simple argument of racism breaks down.

Michael Long racially abused makes a stand
Sean Charles racially abused makes a stand
Nicky Winmar racially abused
Majak Daw
Eddie Betts, and probably many more I cant remember.

All made strong stands against racism.

None of them got booed for it.

Why Goodes? Why suddenly everyone is racist towards one guy with more pigment in his skin?

This is where the argument breaks down.

Was there an element of mob mentality racism? Of course, that was a part?

Was there resentment that Goodes would go in with the knees and not get sanctioned when others would? Or make threatening gestures to a crown and no sanctions when others would and still do?

Goodes thought his vehicle to promote himself was with our game. He thought he was bigger than it. When he got whacked his enablers thoughtlessly screamed racist at anyone booing Goodes.

The only good thing he did was selfishly play an extra year so we got Membrey. For that I am grateful to him.

there have been dirtier players than goodes tbh many not sanctioned. for example Hodge could be pretty dirty and unsociable on the field. judd even won a brownlow with some pretty dirty acts. moving forward to now and i reckon Fyfe does some pretty dirty things. i mean he KO'd carlisle with a knee. followed it up with hitting someone in the face. none of them were boo'd. also Goodes wasn't boo'd until after the incident. his sliding leg action was there well before that.

i based my views on what i have heard first hand. i'm not guessing here and going maybe it was because of this or maybe everyone is booing him for the same reason i am booing him. if i here people in the crowd heckle racist crap, then it's going to be because they are racist. is everyone in the crowd racist, that's harder to prove.

i want to believe it's not racist but i can't find an angle that aligns with that view. because every-time people bring it up, the factor that differentiates it from other players is always because of his stance on indigenous issues. it's because he spoke up. if he didn't do that, they wouldn't have boo'd him. they would have tolerated all the other reasons they bring up.

 

[George]

no i didn't have to ask everyone to that boo'd him... that's impossible for anyone to do. so if i can't prove that it was collectively racist, then like wise you can't discredit that either. right? so your statement was that "He then attributed THAT booing again to racism, which is so far from the reality of the situation it's not even funny" i was trying to tell you i saw the racism first hand. so his views on that are founded. there was a racist element in there. i mean i could go one step further and explain why even those who were booing him were doing it due to racism without themselves identifying it as such, which is what people have tried to argue, but people have trouble accepting that.

he didn't pull it from no where and dream up the racism inflicted on him. it was there! cannot you not see how he would have that view? plays football, cops racism, goes online cops racism, lives his life cops racism... so why wouldn't he think the booing is racially motivated?

how is it the publics past treatment of other actions irrelevant? it's 100% relevant to the discussion. i mean we are talking about publicly opposing someones actions here. people were so offended by goodes actions they decided to publicly make a stand. but we have players committing much worse and we don't here a whimper. why is that? break a kids jaw, won't boo that. sexually assault a woman. won't boo that. assault your partner. won't boo that. but goodes, yeah he's fair game!

as for Nicky i'd argue he copped it a lot worse. absolutely vile s**t. you just couldn't hear it in unison on tv. things have improved out of sight since then. i think there is less direct vile racism with the increase of population accounted for. the challenge now is addressing casual racism. many people do not know they do it. so how can it be corrected? hell many people do not even know how bad it is in indigenous communities.

like i said i do not agree with how goodes went about it. it's too abrasive. but i don't think he deserved what he got. others have done far far worse and come out of the game celebrated! i mean check out wayne carey.

It's an instant reaction. He clearly did not have the time before he pointed to her to even realize who it was or how old she was.

Maybe watch this video which has 6 million views on it:




And then read the comments. Third most popular comment: "I thought she was 30 and not 13 cause she looked old af"

Other popular comments:

"13? She looks mom of five... She had hit puberty when other gurls of her age were learning to walk properly." 281 likes

"She’s old enough to know." 500 likes

"What the player did will be a big turning point in her life. Now she will question the teachings of the bigoted adults in her life." 1500 likes

But whatever. Keep quibbling about how he could have handled it better and act like he was not the victim.

And yeah, politicising football? Surely as a saints supporter, we should be more understanding than most considering Nicky Winmar is such an integral part of our history.

of course it was the latter. every past player is boo'd. literally every single one. hell i heard lycett boo'd on the weekend. which was then met with applause the next play latter. then boo'd again. jetta has never been boo'd by a WA crowd. i was there for the previous game vs WCE. so how did it turn into boos during that goodes game?

again i dont think anyone is saying its perfect ...but again unless you have been in the shoes of copping a racial attack you cant really ever know what was pumping through his veins at that time ... i still to this day have a life ban from a certain sports arena because i delt with it by throwing a basketball at the head of the person calling me a name that resulted in a fight, in that moment i wish i had the control of goodes but i didnt and i blew up ... i still to this day regret that and im sure Goodes has regrets about the way it played out for him .. but as STCiz says is the crime of going to far enough to boo a two time brownlow medalist out of the game ...
i dont think it is ...
as for the booing i was at both the Hawthorn game and the WCE game that goodes got booed and ill say 90% of the boos at the WCE game were followed by a racial slur ... that game was the first time i ever walked out cause i was sickened by the crowd behaviour

Was he racially abused - Yes.
Is that bad - Yes.
Was everyone racially abusing him - No.
Did he act appropriately - No.
Could he have acted more appropriately - Yes.

I don't have issue with him standing up for his people. He could've gone about it in a much more productive way and he didn't have to humiliate a child on national TV to get his point across.

Nicky copped worse in his time in football but didn't do what Goodes did - he made one gesture post game that changed the landscape forever. If it was a child giving Nicky s**t I doubt Nicky would've turned around and wanted them out of the ground. Eddie had bananas thrown at him and raised the issue with the AFL while the football community got behind him and supported him. Clubs are now taking it upon themselves to weed out the imbeciles at the football who want to berate a player from over the fence. But we don't need to ruin childrens lives in the process. Counsel the familiies, inform communities, but don't do it on a national stage like that. He is a w***er for doing what he did. He could've gone about it 100 different ways and I would've had no issue at all. I feel for what he has had to go through but at the same time feel for the child who now has to live with that. It was a horrible situation but Goodes should've handled it better. And my view on that won't change.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It's an instant reaction. He clearly did not have the time before he pointed to her to even realize who it was or how old she was.

Maybe watch this video which has 6 million views on it:




And then read the comments. Third most popular comment: "I thought she was 30 and not 13 cause she looked old af"

Other popular comments:

"13? She looks mom of five... She had hit puberty when other gurls of her age were learning to walk properly." 281 likes

"She’s old enough to know." 500 likes

"What the player did will be a big turning point in her life. Now she will question the teachings of the bigoted adults in her life." 1500 likes

But whatever. Keep quibbling about how he could have handled it better and act like he was not the victim.

And yeah, politicising football? Surely as a saints supporter, we should be more understanding than most considering Nicky Winmar is such an integral part of our history.

in the heat of the moment i doubt Goodes would be even able to focus properly the wave of emotions going through him i reckon somewhere between rage and tears it would sit you can see later in the game he is still rocked by it

 

[StCicatriz]

in the heat of the moment i doubt Goodes would be even able to focus properly the wave of emotions going through him i reckon somewhere between rage and tears it would sit you can see later in the game he is still rocked by it

in front of 60k-80k people. concentrating on a very fast moving game with a bunch of responsibilities. someone yells racist abuse when running past. so you turn around and point at where it came from. i think its very presumptuous to think he knew her age. very unfair.

 

[StCicatriz]

yeah we will have a lot of work to do with racism in this country

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Was he racially abused - Yes.
Is that bad - Yes.
Was everyone racially abusing him - No.
Did he act appropriately - No.
Could he have acted more appropriately - Yes.

I don't have issue with him standing up for his people. He could've gone about it in a much more productive way and he didn't have to humiliate a child on national TV to get his point across.

Nicky copped worse in his time in football but didn't do what Goodes did - he made one gesture post game that changed the landscape forever. If it was a child giving Nicky s**t I doubt Nicky would've turned around and wanted them out of the ground. Eddie had bananas thrown at him and raised the issue with the AFL while the football community got behind him and supported him. Clubs are now taking it upon themselves to weed out the imbeciles at the football who want to berate a player from over the fence. But we don't need to ruin childrens lives in the process. Counsel the familiies, inform communities, but don't do it on a national stage like that. He is a w***er for doing what he did. He could've gone about it 100 different ways and I would've had no issue at all. I feel for what he has had to go through but at the same time feel for the child who now has to live with that. It was a horrible situation but Goodes should've handled it better. And my view on that won't change.

i think here is the issue ... Eddie betts is copping it worse than any player in the comp right now now seeing the way goodes waas treated he has to deal with it in a more passive way ... in the heat of the moment you dont know how you will react eddie i feel works on the fear of if he does a goodes the outcome will be the same and i reckon most players would have that thought ...
i do agree it could have been handled better but it also could have gone much worse ... either way running a guy out of the game and not just him but friends and family around him (see MickyO coments on how his daughter handled her uncle Roy getting boo's) is harsh and the bulk of the critisim should go to the people booing not goodes

 

[George]

i think here is the issue ... Eddie betts is copping it worse than any player in the comp right now now seeing the way goodes waas treated he has to deal with it in a more passive way ... in the heat of the moment you dont know how you will react eddie i feel works on the fear of if he does a goodes the outcome will be the same and i reckon most players would have that thought ...
i do agree it could have been handled better but it also could have gone much worse ... either way running a guy out of the game and not just him but friends and family around him (see MickyO coments on how his daughter handled her uncle Roy getting boo's) is harsh and the bulk of the critisim should go to the people booing not goodes

So Eddie was only booed after Goodes was? Eddie would've had to deal with this kind of stuff his entire life.

Maybe Eddie isn't Adam Goodes...maybe he understands the impact he can have on a childs life if he publicly shames them...he has kids of his own maybe he has always realised that calling out racism is fine but the impact it has depends on how you call it out...

 

[StCicatriz]

So Eddie was only booed after Goodes was? Eddie would've had to deal with this kind of stuff his entire life.

Maybe Eddie isn't Adam Goodes...maybe he understands the impact he can have on a childs life if he publicly shames them...he has kids of his own maybe he has always realised that calling out racism is fine but the impact it has depends on how you call it out...

cmon man. you're basically stating Goodes knew she was a child and that's the difference between Betts and Goodes.

 

[George]

cmon man. you're basically stating Goodes knew she was a child and that's the difference between Betts and Goodes.

Why is it okay to show sympathy for Goodes but it's not okay to show sympathy for the child? Do you not think Goodes is at some fault in any way here? That's all I was irked about. Goodes did nothing wrong or couldn't have handled himself any better, and the child is completely to blame. I think it's much more than just that. If people were racists they would be booing every indigenous player regardless if they were calling out racism or not. That's not the definition of racism. A lot of the people booing Goodes aren't racist. They simply hold the same views as I do.

 

[VDS66]

My mate was recently on a tram. An old lady got on and none of the schoolkids offered her a seat.

So he got up, walked over to her and offered her his seat.

In the time he did, a kid grabbed his seat and sat down.

My mate asked him to get up so the lady could sit down.

The kid told him to piss off with a smirk on his face. My mate gave him the look.

The kid just said what are you going to do about it? Have a go at a 12 year old?

Point is this whole she was only a 13 year old victim thing is being over played.

Sure she learnt it from her peers, but she should have known better, or on fact she was a racist at 13 who knew what she was saying.

The only reason she was humiliated was because she said it in the first place.

And that's the problem with younger society ATM. People too easily accept what is said by a generation who are wise beyond their years than we were at the same age.

Don't believe me? Just look at the vitriolic comments posted on here and passed off as banter.

The standards you walk past are the standards you accept.

Young people are wiser than some people give them credit for and are fully aware of what they can get away with.

If that was my daughter, I'd tell her she deserved everything she copped for being an idiot.