No Opposition Supporters 2019 General AFL Discussion

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Opts

Club Legend
Aug 18, 2017
1,436
1,611
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions
It is the same on every club forum on bigfooty. The AFL is simultaneously out to get every single club, every single club is hard done by, and every single club is hated by the rest of the league

According to their club forum anyway
The difference is that our beliefs are justified. What other club receives a trade ban for doing nothing wrong? What other club has their cap reduced by 10% over a three year period (several years would have been fair)? What other club is the clear bottom of the frees for/against differential over the last 15 years by about 40%?
 

RobbieK

Club Legend
Aug 20, 2009
2,071
2,975
Berlin
AFL Club
Sydney
The difference is that our beliefs are justified. What other club receives a trade ban for doing nothing wrong? What other club has their cap reduced by 10% over a three year period (several years would have been fair)? What other club is the clear bottom of the frees for/against differential over the last 15 years by about 40%?
The trade ban was unjustifiable and there is no supporting that.

But...

COLA has been removed from GWS as well as us. And Brisbane also used to have a similar additional allowance too.

The fact that we had COLA in the first place is surely evidence that the AFL was not simply out to get us, though, yeah?

Swings. Roundabouts.
 

Kapanis

Premiership Player
Jul 26, 2015
3,424
4,181
Noosa
AFL Club
Sydney
The trade ban was unjustifiable and there is no supporting that.

But...

COLA has been removed from GWS as well as us. And Brisbane also used to have a similar additional allowance too.

The fact that we had COLA in the first place is surely evidence that the AFL was not simply out to get us, though, yeah?

Swings. Roundabouts.

The list goes on and on.
 

ScottBo

Debutant
Aug 17, 2009
137
430
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Quite the persecution complex on this forum.
Most of it is just gallows humour, something I'm sure you're familiar with living in Berlin. And I think we're entitled to a little after the farce of 2016. But I agree it's incompetence rather than a grand conspiracy and it isn't all one way traffic. The proof will be in the draw. I hope we get treated like any other bottom four team when they compile next year's draw but reckon the AFL see us as a strategic broadcasting pawn and the club's request for time slots and who we play will be ignored. Hope I'm wrong.
 

swansfan51

Moderator
Jun 3, 2007
11,832
18,512
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
The Exers
You are generally better served assuming incompetence over malice when it comes to human errors. That is particularly the case when it comes to umpiring.
I furiously agree with all of your post, but particularly this. There is no AFL/VFL umpiring consiracy. Dozens, probably hundreds, of umpires have come and gone and yet amazingly not one of them has come out and spoken publicly about the AFL instructing them to favour Victorian sides? They're part timers, they don't get paid enough to keep massive conspiracies as a secret, and many of them are long since retired but still haven't spoken out.

The conspiracy theories continue unabated. The reality is its a tough job, they make errors, and they are (subconsciously!) influenced by many factors including crowd noise.
 

RobbieK

Club Legend
Aug 20, 2009
2,071
2,975
Berlin
AFL Club
Sydney

The list goes on and on.
I'm certainly not going to argue that the AFL acted in a reasonable way in any of this. But this list is really all just one event.

Clearly the AFL wanted Franklin to go to GWS. Understandable, they had just expanded the league and wanted that new club to have as good a chance of success as soon as possible. Franklin going to GWS would have been a major boost both on and off the field for the new club. They were willing to pull strings and bend, if not break, rules in order to get it to happen.

We messed up that plan, we offered an unprecedented offer to Franklin and he accepted it.

At this point the AFL overreacted. COLA was removed in a way that wasn't fair, the completely unjustified trade ban was put in place, stipulations were placed on the contract (setting in stone the amount being paid in every year with no flexibility to alter that at a later date).

As I said, you won't here me speak positively about the AFL when it comes to this matter (or many others), but I don't see how any of this leads you to dispute my narrative (incompetent, reactive decision making) and favour yours (intentional conspiracy). I have a low opinion of the organisation. So low that I simply don't see them as capable of acting in such a conspiratorial way as some on here!

This is just one example of where the AFL has seriously conflicted interests. On the one hand it is supposed to be the body that ensures a fair and equitable competition. On the other hand it has financial incentives to manipulate situations in ways that are often not fair or equitable. We have suffered, but we aren't the only ones. We have also benefited. The club wouldn't be where it is at today if we hadn't had extended support and concessions from the AFL.

Which brings me to the question of motive. If the AFL is really out to get the Swans I am really puzzled as to what the motivation could be. After putting so much effort into expanding the league, how is it in the AFL's interest to then consciously and calculating conspire against the largest club in the largest market in the country?
 

Kapanis

Premiership Player
Jul 26, 2015
3,424
4,181
Noosa
AFL Club
Sydney
I'm certainly not going to argue that the AFL acted in a reasonable way in any of this. But this list is really all just one event.

Clearly the AFL wanted Franklin to go to GWS. Understandable, they had just expanded the league and wanted that new club to have as good a chance of success as soon as possible. Franklin going to GWS would have been a major boost both on and off the field for the new club. They were willing to pull strings and bend, if not break, rules in order to get it to happen.

We messed up that plan, we offered an unprecedented offer to Franklin and he accepted it.

At this point the AFL overreacted. COLA was removed in a way that wasn't fair, the completely unjustified trade ban was put in place, stipulations were placed on the contract (setting in stone the amount being paid in every year with no flexibility to alter that at a later date).

As I said, you won't here me speak positively about the AFL when it comes to this matter (or many others), but I don't see how any of this leads you to dispute my narrative (incompetent, reactive decision making) and favour yours (intentional conspiracy). I have a low opinion of the organisation. So low that I simply don't see them as capable of acting in such a conspiratorial way as some on here!

This is just one example of where the AFL has seriously conflicted interests. On the one hand it is supposed to be the body that ensures a fair and equitable competition. On the other hand it has financial incentives to manipulate situations in ways that are often not fair or equitable. We have suffered, but we aren't the only ones. We have also benefited. The club wouldn't be where it is at today if we hadn't had extended support and concessions from the AFL.

Which brings me to the question of motive. If the AFL is really out to get the Swans I am really puzzled as to what the motivation could be. After putting so much effort into expanding the league, how is it in the AFL's interest to then consciously and calculating conspire against the largest club in the largest market in the country?
You'd have to ask the AFL re your last paragraph. To strengthen another club they own and control in the same market?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

The King!

Chosen One
Aug 3, 2004
101,477
81,876
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
The AFL have made decisions in the short term with a narrow focus quite often in my opinion

Incompetence rather than a conspiracy against us or any club

if anything they would want us to succeed , much better for their brand as a national comp

If we fell in a heap it’s a bad look for them as we were flying then they introduce a second team into the market
 

Kapanis

Premiership Player
Jul 26, 2015
3,424
4,181
Noosa
AFL Club
Sydney
The AFL have made decisions in the short term with a narrow focus quite often in my opinion

Incompetence rather than a conspiracy against us or any club

if anything they would want us to succeed , much better for their brand as a national comp

If we fell in a heap it’s a bad look for them as we were flying then they introduce a second team into the market
Media rights, money. You are right, a strong swans team make more $ for the afl.
 

Kapanis

Premiership Player
Jul 26, 2015
3,424
4,181
Noosa
AFL Club
Sydney
I think the trade ban was along a way to appease everyone we had a recent flag and a good list so would be ok

But it affects us more now than it did then
No probes for Hawks recruiting Mitchell, O'Meara, Scully or Richmond getting Lynch though. That's what stinks, doesn't seem like a level playing field given Fitzpatrick's dummy spit re Buddy not going to GWS to help rake in the dollars for the new AFL owned team.
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
15,784
17,167
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
They're part timers
Well this is exactly where the problem lies. I agree there isn't anything intentional about decisions they make as you say, but even Blind Freddy can see that these guys get overwhelmed by the general emotion of the event & where sentiment lies & the perception of how one club plays their footy compared to another. It's amateurish actually.

I know what you are trying to say & you are partly correct, but you are excusing the umpires for making decisions based on emotion &/or perception.
Razor Ray, one of our best & most honest umpires, is proof it happens.


“It’s an error for starters. It was the one I went home and watched,” Chamberlain told SEN.
My position’s pretty good, I identify (Jack) Ziebell out the back, the ball’s coming in deep and I see Tuohy and watch it all the way.
“You go, ‘How come you didn’t pay a free kick? You’ve seen it, he makes contact, why didn’t you pay it?’
“If I’m honest, I think I got a bit stubborn, I think I got a little bit belligerent.”
In the heat of the moment, Chamberlain adjudged Ziebell to have exaggerated the contact.
However, upon seeing the replay the umpire knew that not to be the case.
I don’t like paying free kicks when players put a little bit on it. It’s a free kick every day, there’s no question, it’s a missed free kick,” Chamberlain said.
“If I reflect on that, it was my mentality there that was my error and that’s why I didn’t pay the free kick.
“I’m disappointed in myself about that.”


So I ask you this SF51, do you think there was a bit of this in one of the most important games of the Sydney Swan's history, the 2016 Grand Final?

If anyone doesn't, then perhaps they too are being "a little bit belligerent".
I have no doubt that the 3 umpires on the day, with Jeffries being the worst, all got caught up in the emotion of the day.
It happens. It also happened in Macca's & Jack's last game where I thought the Saints copped some crap decisions, but hey, it wasn't their special day was it?
 

Olian

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 12, 2013
5,149
5,477
Between the Bridges
AFL Club
Sydney
Don Pyke gone.
Stepped down with two years to go.
If it was due to the players and the results of their review then that is poor on the playing group.
Following Sanderson that would be 2 coaches they have moved on in the last 5 or so years because of the players.

Easy to sack a coach but maybe the playing group should be looked at.
 

RW

Premium Platinum
Jan 11, 2003
15,007
15,654
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
If anyone doesn't, then perhaps they too are being "a little bit belligerent".
I have no doubt that the 3 umpires on the day, with Jeffries being the worst, all got caught up in the emotion of the day.
It happens. It also happened in Macca's & Jack's last game where I thought the Saints copped some crap decisions, but hey, it wasn't their special day was it?
SF51's argument is that where the two alternatives are incompetence and conspiracy, incompetence is more likely. What you are saying would be more consistent with the incompetence explanation (professional umpires shouldn't allow themselves to be influenced by emotion).
 

Tedeski

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2006
15,784
17,167
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sunnybrook Farm
SF51's argument is that where the two alternatives are incompetence and conspiracy, incompetence is more likely. What you are saying would be more consistent with the incompetence explanation (professional umpires shouldn't allow themselves to be influenced by emotion).
Do you think professional umpires would have made important free kick decisions & perhaps given us more than 4 frees to 3/4 time?
 

Top Bottom