2019 "Hypothetical Trade, FA, random player you wish we could get" thread..

The Chad and I

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That is a really ignorant comment. Do a comparison based on AFL listed players.
Not really.
Players look better when they come into a senior team with their elite players fully loaded across their structure.
We have a massive a hole in the midfield and also missing established tall forwards.

It puts too much of a burden on the role players and youngsters.
We're doing exceptionally well all things considered.
Melbourne has a much better list and they're playing terribly.
 

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Bugs1977

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I think he might make a player mate, but he is a long way off it at present. Physically, he hasn't really cracked in all that much at Box Hill and his defensive work is very minimal.

This isn't a knock as he is a young kid in his first year, but I'm just mindful many on here, not saying it's you dude, see a really strong mark in a pre-season game and then build a player up above what's realistic.

We all loved Howe in his first year, Morison last year and countless other young blokes that never made the grade, Hanrahan had wraps from many including myself.

He has talent, but he has work to do. Jackson Ross, obviously a season advanced in development, is doing all the right things at VFL level and is a long way ahead of Walker.
The only thing holding Ross out of a debut is about 7-8kg of weight.
 

OnceKicked50

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The only thing holding Ross out of a debut is about 7-8kg of weight.
Plenty of skinny blokes have played. Plenty.

I will be disappointed, and surprised, if we don't see him at some stage this year. He is literally banging the door down at Box Hill, has improved his defensive side of the game and is just such a natural at reading the play.
 

Lotus

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It’s amazing Box Hill won the flag last year considering Richmond, Collingwood and Geelong have this amazing depth! Geez those Box Hill ring ins must be something special.
Because they're playing like a team. The flow and the concession is there. I remember watching live streaming of the Elimination final feeling anxious but still believe the boys still have a chance for a very late goal to force extra time.

Once the concession, consistency and less injuries during game time the senior team should be able to win more games.
 

Bugs1977

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Plenty of skinny blokes have played. Plenty.

I will be disappointed, and surprised, if we don't see him at some stage this year. He is literally banging the door down at Box Hill, has improved his defensive side of the game and is just such a natural at reading the play.
We’re Hawthorn mate. We don’t do short apprenticeships unless your name is Cyril Rioli 😂
 

Spursfan

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On a somewhat related note -

Collingwood have done a great job in “rebuilding on the run” which is what we are trying to do. Everyone talks about how good Geelong have done this, well Collingwood have done it better!

Both played off in the 2011 grand final - Collingwood got back there last year, Geelong haven’t been back. I’m not sure Collingwood get their due credit for this.

What’s interesting is if you look at how they rebuilt the list, it is not that impressive (in the sense they didn’t nail every off season for the 7 years in between).

Basically two or three off seasons with astute trading (Treloar, Adams, Howe, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Hosking-Elliot), one absolute nailed 1st round selection (Grundy), (+ Stephenson last year) and some solid players picked up later in the draft (Langdon, Maynard, Philips)

The only players who played in both 2011 GF and 2018 GF were Pendlebury and Sidebottom.

I think it shows (again) that you don’t need a plethora of 1st round picks (Collingwood’s 1st rounders were actually quite poor through this period, decent prospects but haven’t worked out and weren’t part of the GF), and that you can build a premiership capable list/depth by getting things right for 2-3 years (essentially what we are aiming to do now).

Everyone talks about following the Geelong model but I think Collingwood have also shown how to go about it - we could learn a lot from their strategy.

What it probably also shows is that the intangibles (culture, values, motivation etc) along with coaching and fitness also play a huge role which is often overlooked when lists are analyzed (purely on talent). We know we can get these right, just need to make smart recruiting decisions over the next two offseasons with our full range of picks available as we head into it.
Collingwood missed the finals for 4 years in a row ('14-'17). Not sure how this board would cope if we did that. Missing the finals for that long allowed them= access to draft capital to make some of those trades. They may have overpaid for some but what makes up for it is the picks they have got right are guns (De Goey, Stephenson, Grundy and Sier looks a good get in the 2nd round).
 

Dewnior

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On a somewhat related note -

Collingwood have done a great job in “rebuilding on the run” which is what we are trying to do. Everyone talks about how good Geelong have done this, well Collingwood have done it better!

Both played off in the 2011 grand final - Collingwood got back there last year, Geelong haven’t been back. I’m not sure Collingwood get their due credit for this.

What’s interesting is if you look at how they rebuilt the list, it is not that impressive (in the sense they didn’t nail every off season for the 7 years in between).

Basically two or three off seasons with astute trading (Treloar, Adams, Howe, Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Hosking-Elliot), one absolute nailed 1st round selection (Grundy), (+ Stephenson last year) and some solid players picked up later in the draft (Langdon, Maynard, Philips)

The only players who played in both 2011 GF and 2018 GF were Pendlebury and Sidebottom.

I think it shows (again) that you don’t need a plethora of 1st round picks (Collingwood’s 1st rounders were actually quite poor through this period, decent prospects but haven’t worked out and weren’t part of the GF), and that you can build a premiership capable list/depth by getting things right for 2-3 years (essentially what we are aiming to do now).

Everyone talks about following the Geelong model but I think Collingwood have also shown how to go about it - we could learn a lot from their strategy.

What it probably also shows is that the intangibles (culture, values, motivation etc) along with coaching and fitness also play a huge role which is often overlooked when lists are analyzed (purely on talent). We know we can get these right, just need to make smart recruiting decisions over the next two offseasons with our full range of picks available as we head into it.
Jeebus, only one nailed 1st round pick ? Collingwood nailed every first round draft pick they were given in those years with the exception of 2013 (and the jury is still out on that pick) whether it was used in the draft or trade.

Here's a summary;

2012 - 1st round pick - Grundy
2013 - 1st round pick - Scharenberg (jury out)
2014 - 1st round picks - De Goey, Moore
2015 - 1st round pick - traded for Treloar
2016 - 1st round pick - traded for Treloar
2017 - 1st round pick - Stevenson
 

Rioli magic

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Collingwood missed the finals for 4 years in a row ('14-'17). Not sure how this board would cope if we did that. Missing the finals for that long allowed them= access to draft capital to make some of those trades. They may have overpaid for some but what makes up for it is the picks they have got right are guns (De Goey, Stephenson, Grundy and Sier looks a good get in the 2nd round).
I forgot to put De Goey as a nailed early selection.

Point is they essentially have 4 players that have used that currency (Grundy, De Goey, Treloar, Adams), (Stephenson + Sier good selections but not bona fide stars yet) and others have been added from astute trading/recruiting. Pendlebury and Sidebottom were already there.

From a list perspective I would optimistically look at it like this:

Pendlebury + Sidebottom = Mitchell + O’Meara

Treloar + Adams = Wingard + Scully (optimistic - ideally we add Cogs here, and Wingard becomes more like our De Goey addition)

That leaves Grundy (pick 17) and De Goey (pick 5) as big holes in the top end of the list.

As I said, we need to nail the next two offseasons with our full compliment of picks available.

We’ve probably matched them in terms of later selections (Sicily, Worps, Hardwick), it’s the other value trades we also haven’t got in yet (Howe, Varcoe, Crisp etc).

For reference - Collingwood drafted the following players with 1st/2nd round picks through this period, that were not part of the GF side:

Matthew Scharenberg (pick 5)
Darcy Moore (pick 9)
Ben Kennedy (pick 19)
Tim Broomhead (pick 20)
Sam McLarty (pick 30)
Callam Brown (pick 35)
Jackson Ramsey (pick 38)

That is 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks - you don’t need to spend 4 years at the bottom. If we can add Cogs and play our cards well, we can turn this around without going the Carlton model.

*plus the intangibles that I mentioned!!
 

Bugs1977

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I forgot to put De Goey as a nailed early selection.

Point is they essentially have 4 players that have used that currency (Grundy, De Goey, Treloar, Adams), (Stephenson + Sier good selections but not bona fide stars yet) and others have been added from astute trading/recruiting. Pendlebury and Sidebottom were already there.

From a list perspective I would optimistically look at it like this:

Pendlebury + Sidebottom = Mitchell + O’Meara

Treloar + Adams = Wingard + Scully (optimistic - ideally we add Cogs here, and Wingard becomes more like our De Goey addition)

That leaves Grundy (pick 17) and De Goey (pick 5) as big holes in the top end of the list.

As I said, we need to nail the next two offseasons with our full compliment of picks available.

We’ve probably matched them in terms of later selections (Sicily, Worps, Hardwick), it’s the other value trades we also haven’t got in yet (Howe, Varcoe, Crisp etc).

For reference - Collingwood drafted the following players with 1st/2nd round picks through this period, that were not part of the GF side:

Matthew Scharenberg (pick 5)
Darcy Moore (pick 9)
Ben Kennedy (pick 19)
Tim Broomhead (pick 20)
Sam McLarty (pick 30)
Callam Brown (pick 35)
Jackson Ramsey (pick 38)

That is 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks - you don’t need to spend 4 years at the bottom. If we can add Cogs and play our cards well, we can turn this around without going the Carlton model.

*plus the intangibles that I mentioned!!
Something I think you’ve missed which needs to brought up is that Moore / Brown we’re FS picks. The fact they had a right to pick these guys first shouldn’t be understated.

Other than that I think you’ve brought up a great comparison with the Collingwood rebuild on the fly model. Good job 👍🏽
 

Rioli magic

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Something I think you’ve missed which needs to brought up is that Moore / Brown we’re FS picks. The fact they had a right to pick these guys first shouldn’t be understated.

Other than that I think you’ve brought up a great comparison with the Collingwood rebuild on the fly model. Good job 👍🏽
Cheers! I was really just looking at the team that got to last years GF (I think that counts as a successful rebuild!), which neither of these two players were actually a part of, so not really a key part of the rebuild in my opinion (just massive bonuses picked up along the way). Good selections with a discount added, hopefully we do the same this year with Maginness.
 

Bugs1977

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Cheers! I was really just looking at the team that got to last years GF (I think that counts as a successful rebuild!), which neither of these two players were actually a part of, so not really a key part of the rebuild in my opinion (just massive bonuses picked up along the way). Good selections with a discount added, hopefully we do the same this year with Maginness.
Yep our FS picks for whatever reason have not worked out in our favour so hopefully that corrects itself soon starting with Finn.
 

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Dewnior

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For reference - Collingwood drafted the following players with 1st/2nd round picks through this period, that were not part of the GF side:

Matthew Scharenberg (pick 5)
Darcy Moore (pick 9)
Ben Kennedy (pick 19)
Tim Broomhead (pick 20)
Sam McLarty (pick 30)
Callam Brown (pick 35)
Jackson Ramsey (pick 38)

That is 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks - you don’t need to spend 4 years at the bottom. If we can add Cogs and play our cards well, we can turn this around without going the Carlton model.

*plus the intangibles that I mentioned!!
You omitted Maynard, Sier, De Goey & Stevenson
 

Rioli magic

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You omitted Maynard, Sier, De Goey & Stevenson
All played in the GF, along with Grundy. I was pointing out they haven’t nailed every early selection since 2012 to build the team that made the 2018 GF, despite only having Pendles and Sidebottom carried over from 2011. All of those I listed were early picks who didn’t play, half not even on the list anymore - basically 4 years worth of 1st/2nd rd selections that weren’t required to build a GF team.

Those not listed (Grundy, De Goey etc - and Treloar!) were all fantastic use of their early selections!
 

Dewnior

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All played in the GF, along with Grundy. I was pointing out they haven’t nailed every early selection since 2012 to build the team that made the 2018 GF, despite only having Pendles and Sidebottom carried over from 2011. All of those I listed were early picks who didn’t play, half not even on the list anymore - basically 4 years worth of 1st/2nd rd selections that weren’t required to build a GF team.

Those not listed (Grundy, De Goey etc - and Treloar!) were all fantastic use of their early selections!
I don't understand your point. All of those players were depth that played games during the period you mentioned that helped elevate the team to a GF.
 

Rioli magic

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I don't understand your point. All of those players were depth that played games during the period you mentioned that helped elevate the team to a GF.
Yes ok, every player who plays a game between a clubs grand final appearances helped elevate the team to get them there...

McLarty never played a game and was delisted
Ramsey was delisted in 2017 after 17 career games
Kennedy played 25 games before being traded in 2015 and then being delisted by Melbourne
Sharenberg has played 30 games in 5 1/2 years due to injuries
Brown had played 13 career games

...all vital to Collingwood’s rebuild, much like Garry Moss helped elevate Hawthorn to 4 premierships by playing 14 games between 2007 and 2010.
 

Howe Amazing

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Pies have lost to injury: Eliot, Wells, Adams, Beams, and defenders in Dunn, Kelly, Langdon.

I think they miss Dunn who was excellent before injury, but Roughead has proven a strong replacement. They also have Goldsack, and Landgdon is obviously best 22.

They could play Quaynor, who has huge expectations.

Aish, Brown, Greenwood, Daicos, Crisp, Phillips, Wills, are on the fringe.

Their depth is incredible.
Every other club should be picking apart Pies, Tigers, Giants and Cats lists to offer more money to bring them back to the pack
 

SuperSic

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I forgot to put De Goey as a nailed early selection.

Point is they essentially have 4 players that have used that currency (Grundy, De Goey, Treloar, Adams), (Stephenson + Sier good selections but not bona fide stars yet) and others have been added from astute trading/recruiting. Pendlebury and Sidebottom were already there.

From a list perspective I would optimistically look at it like this:

Pendlebury + Sidebottom = Mitchell + O’Meara

Treloar + Adams = Wingard + Scully (optimistic - ideally we add Cogs here, and Wingard becomes more like our De Goey addition)

That leaves Grundy (pick 17) and De Goey (pick 5) as big holes in the top end of the list.

As I said, we need to nail the next two offseasons with our full compliment of picks available.

We’ve probably matched them in terms of later selections (Sicily, Worps, Hardwick), it’s the other value trades we also haven’t got in yet (Howe, Varcoe, Crisp etc).

For reference - Collingwood drafted the following players with 1st/2nd round picks through this period, that were not part of the GF side:

Matthew Scharenberg (pick 5)
Darcy Moore (pick 9)
Ben Kennedy (pick 19)
Tim Broomhead (pick 20)
Sam McLarty (pick 30)
Callam Brown (pick 35)
Jackson Ramsey (pick 38)

That is 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks - you don’t need to spend 4 years at the bottom. If we can add Cogs and play our cards well, we can turn this around without going the Carlton model.

*plus the intangibles that I mentioned!!
Good comparison but there is one key mistake here. You say we haven’t got the “value trades (Howe, Varcoe, Crisp etc.)”. I would strongly argue that Impey, Henderson and Scrimshaw fall perfectly in this category.

Sure there might be a few more to come but if Minchington gets fit and we pick up someone of the Day or Brodie value type then we have already nailed this category.
 

Brant

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We need a nut-case defensive FP to replace Popeye as he transitions out.

A team-first player that values tackles & goal assists & score involvements & 1%'ers more than kicking his own goals.
 

HODGEYROAD

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I forgot to put De Goey as a nailed early selection.

Point is they essentially have 4 players that have used that currency (Grundy, De Goey, Treloar, Adams), (Stephenson + Sier good selections but not bona fide stars yet) and others have been added from astute trading/recruiting. Pendlebury and Sidebottom were already there.

From a list perspective I would optimistically look at it like this:

Pendlebury + Sidebottom = Mitchell + O’Meara

Treloar + Adams = Wingard + Scully (optimistic - ideally we add Cogs here, and Wingard becomes more like our De Goey addition)

That leaves Grundy (pick 17) and De Goey (pick 5) as big holes in the top end of the list.

As I said, we need to nail the next two offseasons with our full compliment of picks available.

We’ve probably matched them in terms of later selections (Sicily, Worps, Hardwick), it’s the other value trades we also haven’t got in yet (Howe, Varcoe, Crisp etc).

For reference - Collingwood drafted the following players with 1st/2nd round picks through this period, that were not part of the GF side:

Matthew Scharenberg (pick 5)
Darcy Moore (pick 9)
Ben Kennedy (pick 19)
Tim Broomhead (pick 20)
Sam McLarty (pick 30)
Callam Brown (pick 35)
Jackson Ramsey (pick 38)

That is 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks - you don’t need to spend 4 years at the bottom. If we can add Cogs and play our cards well, we can turn this around without going the Carlton model.

*plus the intangibles that I mentioned!!
Hopefully but as things stand Wingard is absolutely miles off giving Treloar and or JDG output.
 

TheFourPillars

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Hopefully but as things stand Wingard is absolutely miles off giving Treloar and or JDG output.
Dont you remember the pies were struggling to score not too long ago and for the very same reasons ball movement. JDG output directly correlates with his side. If we were a better team and i mean team becuase there are many that are still trying to fit in we would score more. Its just a work in progress we see glimpses of game play which are exciting
 

rogiebear93

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Dont you remember the pies were struggling to score not too long ago and for the very same reasons ball movement. JDG output directly correlates with his side. If we were a better team and i mean team becuase there are many that are still trying to fit in we would score more. Its just a work in progress we see glimpses of game play which are exciting
Exactly, it's painful watching Chad try to navigate a congested forward line where he runs into an oppo player every time he moves.
 

HODGEYROAD

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Dont you remember the pies were struggling to score not too long ago and for the very same reasons ball movement. JDG output directly correlates with his side. If we were a better team and i mean team becuase there are many that are still trying to fit in we would score more. Its just a work in progress we see glimpses of game play which are exciting
Yeah I don't disagree with that tbh, I've said numerous times in a few threads that our midfield / ball movement is hot garbage.
 

rei154

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Have seen a few posts on Facebook about a Bruest/Melbourne trade. What would we have to get to make this worth it for us?
I'd want either a late first/ early second round pick instead of a player from Melbourne, especially as Bruest fills a big-ish hole in the Melbourne forward line and they think they're right in the mix for a premiership.
 
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