Opinion - 2019 lineup | Page 14 | BigFooty

Opinion 2019 lineup

Discussion in 'Western Bulldogs' started by fronkalicious, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Golden_6

    Golden_6 Premiership Player

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    FB: Morris, Naughton, Crozier
    HB: Wood, Cordy, JJ
    C: Hunter, Libba, Macrae
    HF: McLean, Schache, Gowers
    FF: Wallis, Boyd, Cavarra
    R: English, Dunkley, Bont
    INT: Suckling, Richards, Daniel, Williams.

    Emergency: Lipinski, Trengove, Picken, Dickson, Greene, Dale, Jong, Lloyd, Duryea, Dale, B Smith

    I think we will be batting a lot deeper next year. Trengove, Dickson, Duryea and Lloyd give us some mature depth in all areas of the ground and some impressive youngsters like Smith, Lipinski and Greene will be there to push their case.

    I left Picken out because he's a BIG unknown at this point.
     
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  2. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Norm Smith Medallist

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    Wallis kicked 20 Goals 3 Behinds from his 18 Games he had 143 kicks and 242 handballs a lot of people could be remembering
    the first North Melbourne game where he cost us the game with his late brain fart. Wallis is easy to replace and is not a first
    choice mid that is his main issue.
     
  3. Dannnnnnnnnn

    Dannnnnnnnnn Moderator

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    Two players kicked more goals than him in 2018. One of them is the best player in the team (Bontempelli) and the other is one of the first forwards selected in the team by many (Gowers). In 2017, two players kicked more than Wallis' 20 goals: one is gone (Stringer) and the other has serious question marks on him (Picken). In our premiership year, only three players did it: Stringer, Bontempelli, and Dickson (again, question marks).

    I'm interested to know who easily replaces one of the only players who has reliably kicked goals for us in years.
     
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  4. House_of_Dahl

    House_of_Dahl Premiership Player

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    Well yeah this is true, but what is also true is that you are saying Wallis is a must pick forward. We have a paradox here - both make sense if worded one way but not the other
     
  5. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Norm Smith Medallist

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    Easton Wood Dannnnnnnnnn. ;) Only kidding, Gowers kicked 26 Goals and 20 Behinds and probably as many out on the
    full, Bontempelli kicked 22 Goals and 16 Behinds. My main concern with Wallis is purely volume meaning 23 attempts in
    18 Games or 20 Goals and 3 Behinds yes that conversion and reliability is awesome, but can he access those running
    through the fifty goals like Richards, Williams, Johannisen and even Suckling probably not. Their combined tally for the
    year was 27 Goals and 30 Behinds or 57 attempts on goal. I wish Gowers could convert as well as Wallis, but the sad
    fact is he can't. Josh Schache kicked 17 Goals and 11 Behinds from 13 Games so five more attempts on goal from five
    less games and he was hitting up to the wings quite a lot. If you look to Collingwood with De Goey, Stephenson and
    Hoskin-Elliott that is the point I am trying to make Wallis does not have the same dynamic. They kicked 48, 42 and
    38 Goals for the year which is both unconventional and difficult to defend.
     
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  6. Whoyagot

    Whoyagot Debutant

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    I reckon you’re on the money here. Wallis is damn accurate when he gets the opportunities to kick them but he lacks the dynamic physical attributes to give himself those consistent opportunities. He just doesn’t have that advantage, whether it be pace, height, leap or agility that he can turn to regularly. I reckon that’d be the main reasoning behind him not making some people’s best 22. On the midfield front I’d say he’s behind a number of players as well. Regardless though, I love his toughness and his class so he’s just on the cusp of my best 22 and I reckon if he stays fit he’ll play regularly next year as that supporting mid forward.
     
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  7. Dannnnnnnnnn

    Dannnnnnnnnn Moderator

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    There are two elements of your argument that I agree with: (1) Wallis lacks the dynamism to generate a large number of opportunities on goal; and (2) Wallis is not exactly the type of forward that excels in the current climate.

    In an ideal world, we would have a De Goey, a Stephenson, a Hoskin-Elliott. We don't, though. As it stands, Wallis put together one of the better goal-scoring seasons in our recent history. Was it with an underwhelming total? Yes, but that's irrelevant when almost nobody bettered it. Did it come through making the most of limited opportunities? Yes, but Schache having five more shots at goal doesn't change the fact that Wallis outscored him by three goals. Dunkley having three more scoring shots doesn't change the fact that Wallis outscored him by 9 goals.

    By the way - Wallis had 11 goal assists in 2018, which rated him second at the Dogs.

    Maybe Wallis isn't best 22 by the end of the year. Maybe guys like Cavarra, Greene and Lloyd offer more. Right now, though, I don't understand how "maybe" can be rated ahead of "has done it at AFL level."

    Until others show that they can generate more goals at the level than Wallis can, I don't agree with his omission.
     
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  8. Lindsay_Gilbee

    Lindsay_Gilbee Club Legend

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    How many goes do people think we can get out of our forwards? I'd be hoping this is what the players are aiming for.

    Wallis - 25
    Gowers - 25
    Schache - 30
    Boyd - 20
    Lloyd - 30
    McLean - 20
    Cavarra - 20
    Dickson - 30
    Bontempelli - 20

    We really are built like the 06-09 dogs unless Boyd or Schache break out. I think McLean is the wildcard. He can win our goalkicking if he plays mostly forward. Guess we're gonna need our midfielders and blokes like JJ, Suckling, Williams, Richards to be getting a couple of goals between them a game to put up decent scores.
     
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  9. Dry Rot

    Dry Rot My hat is better than yours

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    Gee I hate well reasoned posts backed up by stats.

    Why didn't you just abuse the last guy who posted on the thread?
     
  10. CaptainMurphy

    CaptainMurphy Premium Platinum

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    Bailey Smith will play every game he's fit for next year, mark my words. He's in so few teams on here.
     
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  11. Prochard123

    Prochard123 Premiership Player

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    Hey guys do you see Dunkley remaining in the primary midfield rotation next year or will he get more forward time with libba coming back and possibly bont playing more mid?

    Thanks
     

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  12. Virgin Dog

    Virgin Dog Team Captain

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    At the rate Schache was scoring between Round 14 (Geelong game) and Round 23 (Richmond game), if he kept up that form he'd be on track for ~37 goals next season with no improvement. I think he should be aiming for 40+ at minimum, and I think he's more than capable of that
     
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  13. Virgin Dog

    Virgin Dog Team Captain

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    It's really hard to say at this point. Midfielder Dunkley >>>> Forward Dunkley, but it's fairly dependent on whether Libba is back at his best, and whether our forward line is performing well enough without Bont. If we struggle up forward again, I can see Bont becoming something close to 50-50 mid-forward (I guess similar to De Goey? Not sure exactly how much time he plays in each spot) which frees up time for Dunkley in the middle.

    In the latter half of the season, Dunkley was absolutely insane in the midfield, so I'd hate to pull him out of there now. I honestly see him as a walk up start for our midfield, and would rather see him rotate in and out of their with Bont (resting forward)
     
  14. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Norm Smith Medallist

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    Your argument is sound Dannnnnnnnnn, as usual. For us to move up the ladder and contend we have to have more than 153 Goal
    assists in the season and must make more of the AFL imposed 6,6,6 set up at the start and reset of games. No more Melbourne
    starting two extra players at half back who run through the square to provide a surge outnumber, it will be an interesting visual
    season next year to see the unintended effects of their rule changes. This is a representation of average goal assists per game
    expressed as a ladder from the 2018 season.
    Melbourne- 10.52
    Geelong- 9.61
    Richmond- 9.58
    Essendon- 9.14
    Brisbane- 9.09
    West Coast- 9.04
    Collingwood- 9.04
    North Melb- 8.82

    GWS- 8.58
    Hawthorn- 8.46
    Port Adelaide- 8.32
    Adelaide- 8.27
    Sydney- 7.52
    Fremantle- 7.27
    St Kilda- 7.27
    Bulldogs- 6.95
    Carlton- 5.18
    Gold Coast- 4.68

    Will the new rules favour the kicking sides ? Will West Coast a kicking side winning the flag change the coaches perceptions ?
    Will the new rules favour certain attributes and nullify other players without those attributes ?
    Try to think ahead when picking your side, for me that was pace agility and ability overhead or constant involvement. No one
    knows how it's going to look and how periodic isolation will effect certain players who benefit from a herd mentality.
     
  15. Whoyagot

    Whoyagot Debutant

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    I see him playing more midfield where he was really impressive in the back half of this season with stints resting forward where he can use his strong marking.

    I’d say structure wise we’ll hopefully look pretty similar to Melbourne next year with a tonne of inside mids rotating through the contest and resting forward. Assuming Libba gets back to his best I’d say he and Macrae would be our two most dominant mids in terms of minutes at the contest while players like bont, Dunkley, McLean, Wallis and Williams will have a bit more of an even split between mid and forward.
     
  16. The Original Swooper

    The Original Swooper Premiership Player

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    For those condemning Wallis as an automatic best 22 inclusion. He has been added to the leadership group. So his team mates and the coaching group obviously think higher of him than many of you folk.
     
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  17. Virgin Dog

    Virgin Dog Team Captain

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    If we play him in the midfield, I struggle to find a spot in the 22 for him. If we continue to use him as a pressure half-forward, then he's an immediate lock for me. I genuinely think he's elite in that position, and the statistics generally agree with me.

    We could end up with something that almost resembles a forward line next year:

    CHF: Wallis - Schache - McLean

    FF: Cavarra - Boyd - Gowers

    Wallis, Schache and Gowers are all very capable forwards, while the other 3 will have question marks but I see no reason why they couldn't perform
     
  18. Testekill

    Testekill Don't look at me like that

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    Reckon he'll be in our primary rotation; our midfield only looked back at its best when we had him being the inside bull.
     
  19. House_of_Dahl

    House_of_Dahl Premiership Player

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    Yeah but to be fair so was Redpath

    and was Roughy too?
     
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  20. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Norm Smith Medallist

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    No one is condemning Mitch Wallis, I want a different dynamic and more volume and Dannnnnnnnnn is correctly pointing
    out that currently there is no one better. Bulldogs 101, making limited players elite. Rinse and repeat. :(
     
  21. The Original Swooper

    The Original Swooper Premiership Player

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    With Libba returning and the growth of Williams and Dunkley as mids, I see it as a no brainer that Wally becomes predominantly a small forward. With full focus on that role he has the smarts to grow the number of opportunities he can create.
     
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  22. doggies ftw

    doggies ftw Brownlow Medallist

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    To add to this, if Dunkley plays as good as he was playing in the back half of the year (or even improves as we can expect) and Libba returns to anywhere near his best the flow on effects to the rest of our midfield will be incredible. When was the last time we had two genuine inside mids as good as those two at their best carrying the grunt work. We saw how much difference Dunks made to Bont being allowed to play more outside late last year and that's ideally what we want. Macrae, McLean, Hunter, Bont will all be allowed the freedom to win more clean ball in space and we will be 100x better because of it.

    This is before factoring in West (whose hands and vision on the inside are comparable to Libba IMO) and Smith too. Our midfield is starting to take incredible shape. Best in the league within 2 years IMO.

    Inside - Libba, Dunkley, West
    Burst mids - Williams, Smith (Red soon)
    Inside/outside links - McLean, Macrae (Lipinski soon)
    Outside - Bont, Hunter

    Perfect mix
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 12:12 PM
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  23. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Norm Smith Medallist

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    As long as he does not go full Gia and have his opponent kick the first three goals at the other end, then you have to kick
    three just to break even. Did you think Daniel Cross was the best winger ever to play the game ? Mitch Wallis kicked
    three goals back to back in Rounds 16 & 17 we lost those games by a combined 111 Points like it or not forwards are
    your first line of defence in the modern game. Wallis could be like Sam Menegola from Geelong who is slow as treacle,
    but kicks a lot of goals. Wallis lacks menegola's ability in the air though which Gowers has big time and generates a
    lot of scoring attempts from it. Balance is football these days and probably explains why we tried so many of our
    defenders forward last year with some success, touch Wood.
     
  24. House_of_Dahl

    House_of_Dahl Premiership Player

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    I know I'm one eyed and all, but that is an effin brilliant midfield. Prefer Bont not being purely outside though. He's one player I'd be happy just saying - play wherever you think you're needed mate.
     
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  25. doggiesmrx

    doggiesmrx Premiership Player

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    Does Trengove in leadership group mean he’s a lock to play every week?
     
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