Analysis 2019 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

Bloodied52

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Ahhh, refreshing to see a post by someone who gets it and sees the big picture. Well done.

IMO, given a half decent run with injuries, 2019 will be an improvement but 2020/2021 we will really see this list start to blossom as the bulk move around the 100 game mark.
..... And if we don't? I voted watch how he goes in 2019 in the Horse thread. This season will be a watershed for Horse.

Either we improve on 2018 or it is time to move him on. If we tread water or go backwards, I expect Horse will do the honorable thing and head to the paddock of his own volition.
 

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connolly

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If they're dicks about it ? Yes/no or maybe. Perhaps they just need to change the record. Point I was making was folks are entitled to have any opinion they want or they can have a mix of opinions.

As far as negatives opinions go, it's only annoying when they go on whingeing about the same thing over and over.

Basically, no-one likes a whiner.
Thank you Evelyn Beatrice Hall
 

connolly

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Talent is only good if it's available to play. Ours is also pretty short of experience even when it is. Roos had some brilliant forwards on hand in 2005. In 2018 we had an injured superstar and the youngest player in the league as our only talls plus a few young inexperienced medium and smalls. Personally I think they exceeded expectations.

If we can get anything like our full complement on the park in 2019 I suspect we'll see a much more offensive brand of footy. Let's see opposition teams match up with Buddy, Reid, Sinclair, Menzel plus (with a few more games into our less experienced crew) McCartin, Dawson, Papley, Hayward, Ronke and even Blakey. There's some talent.
He had three. A talented but undisciplined key forward who probably should have been suspended for the GF, an instinctive, lazy goal kicking genius and a brilliant player with a chronic knee injury. That forward line kicked 65, 56, 96 and 58 points in the four finals series games. A forward line that managed to o kick more than 10 goals in only one finals game and still won the premiership. It was a brilliant coaching performance. Don't even try to put Longmire in his league. Are you religious? Pray to the football gods that Franklin stays on the park.
 

Arwib

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The extraordinary feat that we achieved under the Roos game plan which was developed for the relatively limited list he had and specifically to win finals was that no team scored more than 10 goals against us in any finals game. This with a defense that had a recycled centre half back at 190 cms and a full back who was a recycled half forward flanker at 184 cms. Our tallest defender was LRT a rugby convert at 194 cms. The druggies had a midfield of Cousins, Kerr. Judd (at his peak), Fletcher and Embley up against Buchanon, Bolton, Williams (good player but aging) Kirk, Ablett and O'Keefe. In addition we had a brilliant ruck rover in Goodes, probably the only player we had who could match the Eagles midfield in skill and sheer brilliance. Without Roos game plan it would have been a slaughter. It was a brilliant coaching performance. Longmire is the reverse. He has had an outstanding list with genuine brilliance at both ends of the ground and employs a defensive grinding game plan.
I don't think we're going to again see the kind of massive tactical "first mover" advantages that accrued to innovative coaching staffs 10 and 15 years ago. With the size of football departments, with the extra funding to small clubs to fully pay them, and with the amount of vision and analysis that clubs do now, everyone these days understands flooding and rebounding, front-half presses, zonal defences, stacking or spreading stoppages.
 

Number37

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I don't think we're going to again see the kind of massive tactical "first mover" advantages that accrued to innovative coaching staffs 10 and 15 years ago. With the size of football departments, with the extra funding to small clubs to fully pay them, and with the amount of vision and analysis that clubs do now, everyone these days understands flooding and rebounding, front-half presses, zonal defences, stacking or spreading stoppages.
The Bigfooty commentariat have narrowed our issues down to Horse, John Longmire & the coach. Until either of those 3 turn into Clarkson we are apparently wasting our time with analysis.
 

Bloodied52

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I’m looking forward to Horse being our coach in 2019 & 2020.

I’m also looking forward to reading opinions throughout the year from those lemon sucking posters who can’t stand him.
Bring it on!
I am looking forward to a more successful season. If that happens he stays. Do not think there is any poster who cannot stand Horse. Everyone wants improvement, including the coach and his team.
 

TheMase

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I think the loss of Shaw from the coaches box will be significant.
On what basis?

2017 and 2018 a lot around here believe we under performed, and those are the two years he spent time as a senior coach after coaching the reserves in 2016.

You could be right. I personally don’t think it will be as significant but we will see I suppose...
 

Tedeski

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We’ve always been ok at finding assistants. Kennelly seems to go OK but ultimately it’s the on field coaches that make the biggest difference such as Hodge at Brisbane & we have one in Macca who will become an assistant for us upon retirement.
 

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connolly

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We’ve always been ok at finding assistants. Kennelly seems to go OK but ultimately it’s the on field coaches that make the biggest difference such as Hodge at Brisbane & we have one in Macca who will become an assistant for us upon retirement.
Hopefully this year. We never replaced Milceski who was with his precision kicking our prime mover out of defense up to the 2012 GF. He managed to do it without any histrionics and display. His surgical boot did the talking and the pointing.
 

connolly

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I’m looking forward to Horse being our coach in 2019 & 2020.

I’m also looking forward to reading opinions throughout the year from those lemon sucking posters who can’t stand him.
Bring it on!
You are such a fair person and I also hope we win the premiership. Humble pie will be eaten. However for all our sakes I also hope we don't crash under the weight of an outmoded and overly defensive game plan used by the most unimaginative coach since Phonse Kyne. There are some people on this board who are narrow minded, petty, mean, ungenerous, big noting, snivelling, smirking, sanctimonious, self aggrandisers who will batter you and the other Horsies remorselessly with "I told you so". I am one of them.
 

bungee

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..... And if we don't? I voted watch how he goes in 2019 in the Horse thread. This season will be a watershed for Horse.

Either we improve on 2018 or it is time to move him on. If we tread water or go backwards, I expect Horse will do the honorable thing and head to the paddock of his own volition.
I was talking about my confidence in this list.
 

bungee

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The Bigfooty commentariat have narrowed our issues down to Horse, John Longmire & the coach. Until either of those 3 turn into Clarkson we are apparently wasting our time with analysis.
I know you were being tongue-in-cheek but it's hard to talk about the list or best 22 on this thread or anything else on any other thread without it being derailed by the constant and often irrelevant Horse comments. Here are some examples of real comments and some I just made up (if Trump can do it....).

"How many goals will Buddy kick this year ?" "He'll never reach his potential under Horse".
"Can Aliir help fill the gap after Grundy retires ?" "He can't play his own game under Horse".
"Which players will debut this year ?" "Horse will run them into the ground"
"Who's in our best 22 ?" "Horse will play his favourites"
"Who'll be our main ruck this year ?" "Horse traded our best ruck".
"How many more goals will we get with Reid, Sinclair and Menzel in the forward line ?" "Horse plays ultra-defensive"
"What role will Papley play this year" "Horse will probably play him as a ruck"
"We beat the Premiers twice this year, and the runners up. We beat everyone in the finals except one" "Horse lost one game to the Suns"
"Where will we finish this year ?" "We'll never win a premiership while Horse isn't Clarko"
"What do you think of the new AFL rule changes ?""Horse won't change his game plan"
"How many nuns does it take to change a light bulb ?" "Horse should be using LEDs"

There are places for those who simply want to vent. Try the "Do you want to dump Horse" thread or even the coaching panel thread
 

Deccas

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Was watching a game from 1996 on Fox last night. We played the druggies before they were stoned.

There was this guy, big fella, seemed to stay in the forward 50 a lot for us.

What we did was kick it to him in a 1 on 1 contest because he was ahead of the play.

He then took marks or won the contest and kicked goals.

It was amazeballs.
Horse build a time machine back to the tactical era of two decades ago please.

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Tedeski

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You are such a fair person and I also hope we win the premiership. Humble pie will be eaten. However for all our sakes I also hope we don't crash under the weight of an outmoded and overly defensive game plan used by the most unimaginative coach since Phonse Kyne. There are some people on this board who are narrow minded, petty, mean, ungenerous, big noting, snivelling, smirking, sanctimonious, self aggrandisers who will batter you and the other Horsies remorselessly with "I told you so". I am one of them.
Oh well, Im not afraid to be wrong with my opinion. I am not in the business to offend anyone with my opinion though Connolly so I think hoping that Horse goes OK is fairly harmless & the issue would lie solely with anyone that attacks me unfairly for having that opinion.
At the very least, Horse is our coach & though it seemed we didn’t show anything new in game plan, we surprisingly had an amazing interstate record with such an inexperienced side. I think that’s kudos to Horse for at least blooding all these young players over the last 3 years.
 
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Oh well, Im not afraid to be wrong with my opinion. I am not in the business to offend anyone with my opinion though Connolly so I think hoping that Horse goes OK is fairly harmless & the issue would lie solely with anyone that attacks me unfairly for having that opinion.
At the very least, Horse is our coach & though it seemed we didn’t show anything new in game plan, we surprisingly had an amazing interstate record with such an inexperienced side. I think that’s kudos to Horse for at least blooding all these young players over the last 3 years.
I’m with you Ted. Many half-emptiers will point to the loss against GC as prime example but I prefer to look at the positives of our interstate record, our record against top 8 teams, perhaps even the fact that we were a bees dick from finishing top four. Given the alternatives, I am ecstatic that we have Horse at the helm.
 
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I know you were being tongue-in-cheek but it's hard to talk about the list or best 22 on this thread or anything else on any other thread without it being derailed by the constant and often irrelevant Horse comments. Here are some examples of real comments and some I just made up (if Trump can do it....).

"How many goals will Buddy kick this year ?" "He'll never reach his potential under Horse".
"Can Aliir help fill the gap after Grundy retires ?" "He can't play his own game under Horse".
"Which players will debut this year ?" "Horse will run them into the ground"
"Who's in our best 22 ?" "Horse will play his favourites"
"Who'll be our main ruck this year ?" "Horse traded our best ruck".
"How many more goals will we get with Reid, Sinclair and Menzel in the forward line ?" "Horse plays ultra-defensive"
"What role will Papley play this year" "Horse will probably play him as a ruck"
"We beat the Premiers twice this year, and the runners up. We beat everyone in the finals except one" "Horse lost one game to the Suns"
"Where will we finish this year ?" "We'll never win a premiership while Horse isn't Clarko"
"What do you think of the new AFL rule changes ?""Horse won't change his game plan"
"How many nuns does it take to change a light bulb ?" "Horse should be using LEDs"

There are places for those who simply want to vent. Try the "Do you want to dump Horse" thread or even the coaching panel thread
I am a fair way away. But on my machine the thread says "Game Plan". Why do you constantly claim (with tiresome strawmen devices) that discussion of the game plan and by logical inference the coaching ability and strategy isn't within the reference of the thread? Your defensive defense of the most defensive game plan since the Lacarno Pact defense is a credit to the defensive mindset.
 
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I don't mind either headline if we win. I loved the ugly dour Swans of 2005 with their low scoring games and defensive mindset. Whatever works. As long as we play to win.
I'm sorry but now is not the time for ugly, dour Swans. The game has moved on and any coach who is too defensive is going to find his team on the end of some floggings. The attacking teams, who also hold the ball in their forward half are starting to pick off the defensive teams. Take Bullies, they got flogged a few times playing ultra defensive.

You have to be inventive and stay ahead of the game or find yourself back with the pack.

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caesar88

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A whiz bang game plan would be wasted on a midfield that are incapable of hitting the side of a barn from 20m.
Not necessarily. I think back to the Melbourne game at the MCG. We relied on the simplest of ball movement, just 20-30m short passes, using those basic kicks to actually create space and we then carved up the Dees, who in theory were a nightmare team for us given their run and spread. But we flipped the tables on them and it worked in our favour, we would’ve won pretty comfortably were it not for being two men down most of the match.

For some reason that was the last time in 2019 that we saw any direct, confident passages of play from our boys. The great myth though is that we can’t nail basic kicks. That just isn’t true. The reason the chemistry between our mids and forwards is so poor is because our mids don’t lower their eyes and show the composure they did that day against the Dees. They just bomb it in the sky to Buddy (not a marking forward) and the smalls. When we want to, we’re as good as any at nailing basic kicks to our advantage. We just don’t do it enough.
 

Number37

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Not necessarily. I think back to the Melbourne game at the MCG. We relied on the simplest of ball movement, just 20-30m short passes, using those basic kicks to actually create space and we then carved up the Dees, who in theory were a nightmare team for us given their run and spread. But we flipped the tables on them and it worked in our favour, we would’ve won pretty comfortably were it not for being two men down most of the match.

For some reason that was the last time in 2019 that we saw any direct, confident passages of play from our boys. The great myth though is that we can’t nail basic kicks. That just isn’t true. The reason the chemistry between our mids and forwards is so poor is because our mids don’t lower their eyes and show the composure they did that day against the Dees. They just bomb it in the sky to Buddy (not a marking forward) and the smalls. When we want to, we’re as good as any at nailing basic kicks to our advantage. We just don’t do it enough.
Poor kicking a myth?

Without Lloyd's 30 20m kicks per game our DE would be <50%.
 

caesar88

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Poor kicking a myth?

Without Lloyd's 30 20m kicks per game our DE would be <50%.
I think this idea that we can't hit basic targets by foot is a myth. It's been seriously exaggerated on the back of two truly awful kicks in Hannebery and Jack, neither of whom are going to play a major part in our future, and truthfully haven't played a (beneficial) part in our past two seasons. Everyone else in the team is more than capable of hitting a target inside 50 when they lower their eyes and actually bother to find one to begin with.
 
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Oh well, Im not afraid to be wrong with my opinion. I am not in the business to offend anyone with my opinion though Connolly so I think hoping that Horse goes OK is fairly harmless & the issue would lie solely with anyone that attacks me unfairly for having that opinion.
At the very least, Horse is our coach & though it seemed we didn’t show anything new in game plan, we surprisingly had an amazing interstate record with such an inexperienced side. I think that’s kudos to Horse for at least blooding all these young players over the last 3 years.

Lets face it Ted Horse is a Lovely Fellow but he would be much more appealing to the masses if he showed us something different next year don't you think ?
 

Tedeski

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Lets face it Ted Horse is a Lovely Fellow but he would be much more appealing to the masses if he showed us something different next year don't you think ?
Of course he would. I’m not interested in how nice a fellow he is though. I’m interested in having the best available person for the job for season 2019. IMO that has to be Horse so as I said I will look forward to what the whole coaching panel comes up with in 2019 because it is after all the job of all our coaches. I’m personally not fussed but I am annoyed that some are happy to dump the coach without a suitable replacement at that point in time. That’s just nuts!
 
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