List Mgmt. 2019 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

Mr Magic

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Hey all, thought I'd jump in and give my yearly contribution.

I'm feeling confident Cogs re-signs with us, not claiming to have elite inside sources but have heard from a few that make me confident enough.

From an academy point of view Green is obviously our main man, and it looks like there's been plenty of talk about him on here. My biggest concern is if he fills a role that we're already stacked for but competition for spots is healthy so it shouldn't be an issue.Liam Delahunty has flown under the radar this year but has been impactful both as a forward and defender, looks more comfortable up forward but I prefer him in defence. James Peatliong has also improved from last year and is one I think we should consider in the rookie draft

In the open draft I think we need a focus on a Heath Shaw replacement and some true Wingers. If we could trade up and secure Lachlan Ash or Hayden Young that'd really sure us up for defenders, with either of those two being ready to step up immediately. If we don't trade up and have to match a bid for Green, our first open pick will likely be from 13-20, so possibly a Gould, Rivers or Day could be considered

Lol, what do you think Whitfield, Kelly, Deledio and others are on the flanks???
 

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PMBangers

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Lol, what do you think Whitfield, Kelly, Deledio and others are on the flanks???
Whitfield, Kelly and Deledio aren't wingers at all. Whitters used to be but I can't recall seeing him play wing all year. Dont think Kelly has ever spent a significant amount of time on the wing either and Lids is retiring this year or next, but what would I know :think::infodeskperson:

Cumming will fit into the backline
I don't rate Cumming particularly highly, especially if the possibility to get an Ash or Young is there
 

dlanod

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Whitfield, Kelly and Deledio aren't wingers at all. Whitters used to be but I can't recall seeing him play wing all year. Dont think Kelly has ever spent a significant amount of time on the wing either and Lids is retiring this year or next, but what would I know :think::infodeskperson:
Feel free to ignore him. He's barely coherent at the best of times.
 

Orange Agent

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Whitfield, Kelly and Deledio aren't wingers at all. Whitters used to be but I can't recall seeing him play wing all year. Dont think Kelly has ever spent a significant amount of time on the wing either and Lids is retiring this year or next, but what would I know :think::infodeskperson:


I don't rate Cumming particularly highly, especially if the possibility to get an Ash or Young is there
He's not really a Heater type but I think Perryman can take over from him.
 

fridgeman

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What would you expect back if Coniglio wants to go to West Coast and they trade for him? Would Brander be on your list since he's a former academy boy?
He is a free agent and so doesn’t require a trade and I think if he wants to go he will leave as a free agent but in terms of trades if in the unlikely event that situation does happen I would think it would take 2 top 10 picks with 1 ideally top 5. And it could be that a 3rd club takes Brander and the eagles first rounder to get a pick the Giants would be happy with but Brander although a pick 13 he has not been seen enough to be of high trade value with only 3 games imo it would not make sense for the Eagles to use him in a trade with the risk all passed onto the club taking him

I think what the club is after will became clear when we find out who is leaving the club but I could see the club picking up 2 rucks over the trade draft period even if only one of Mumford and Simpson retire
 

Callums_Guns

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Career best form in a remarkably complex career - gets another year
Good on him.

FANTASTIC NEWS !!!! Just absolutely brilliant had a stellar season thus far and dont think has been beaten in any of his roles this year.

So happy he doesnt go through the rookie draft the end of this season :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu:

Bring on 100 games next season.
 

fridgeman

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From the AFL.com.au article
Only really the one target for the club but it will be interesting to see what happens with the ruck merry go round and if one falls out at the right price for the Giants

PADDY RYDER (PORT ADELAIDE)
Draft picks:
Late second-round/early third-round pick
Value on open market: $400,000-500,000 per season
Seeking a two-year deal and currently exploring the market. Starts next year as a 32-year-old so his trade value isn't through the roof, but could command a handsome wage, especially if there's more than one bidder.

What do people think of the values of the listed below in terms of salary and trade/compensation value?
For Coniglio I think and hope he re-signs but if he is tempted by money I cant see Carlton or the Saints with any chance as them securing a coach first is more important and indicates an unstable environment which is not a sign that a club will challenge for a flag over the next 2-3 years

I could see Tomlinson getting a 5 year deal worth 2.5m which would hopefully be enough for a end of 1st round compensation with his durability and versatility I could see 2-3 Vic clubs interested
Patton to maybe get a farewell game in seniors but I think they will protect him to make sure he can get a new contract somewhere and either a 2/3/4 rd pick upgrade and he gets a 2 year contract and I would be happy for him
The club had to overpay to get Bonar to sign an extension and I can see him being a success but he will need opportunities which the club cannot guarantee and maybe the Saints or Carlton will be able to offer him opportunities and a high 2nd rd pick this year or next

STEPHEN CONIGLIO (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks
: First-round pick (compensation)
Value on open market: $1.1m-1.3m per seasonShould he move, would be a long-term deal upwards of $1 million per season. Would be the easiest of all free agency decisions to award a first-round pick to the Giants.
ADAM TOMLINSON (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
End of first-round or second-round pick (compensation)
Value on open market: $500,000-600,000 per seasonKey-position player adds more value to any move. Has been durable and missed just one game in three years so clubs won't hesitate on a long-term deal. A four or five-year deal could determine what the Giants are left with.
JONATHON PATTON (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
Third-round pick
Value on open market: $550,000-650,000 per season
Sounds like plenty but that's the ballpark of his existing deal for 2020. The Giants tried to offload Patton last year, but he appears destined for the Hawks this time around. Like Scully, expect the remaining salary to be smoothed out by adding a second or third year. Doesn't have the value to be demanding a strong pick.
AIDEN BONAR (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
Early second-round pick
Value on open market: $350,000-450,000 per season
Much like Will Setterfield (GWS to Carlton) last year, Victorian clubs are circling halfway into a healthy four-year deal that was topped up handsomely for seasons 2020 and 2021.
 

Danny88

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From the AFL.com.au article
Only really the one target for the club but it will be interesting to see what happens with the ruck merry go round and if one falls out at the right price for the Giants

PADDY RYDER (PORT ADELAIDE)
Draft picks:
Late second-round/early third-round pick
Value on open market: $400,000-500,000 per season
Seeking a two-year deal and currently exploring the market. Starts next year as a 32-year-old so his trade value isn't through the roof, but could command a handsome wage, especially if there's more than one bidder.

What do people think of the values of the listed below in terms of salary and trade/compensation value?
For Coniglio I think and hope he re-signs but if he is tempted by money I cant see Carlton or the Saints with any chance as them securing a coach first is more important and indicates an unstable environment which is not a sign that a club will challenge for a flag over the next 2-3 years

I could see Tomlinson getting a 5 year deal worth 2.5m which would hopefully be enough for a end of 1st round compensation with his durability and versatility I could see 2-3 Vic clubs interested
Patton to maybe get a farewell game in seniors but I think they will protect him to make sure he can get a new contract somewhere and either a 2/3/4 rd pick upgrade and he gets a 2 year contract and I would be happy for him
The club had to overpay to get Bonar to sign an extension and I can see him being a success but he will need opportunities which the club cannot guarantee and maybe the Saints or Carlton will be able to offer him opportunities and a high 2nd rd pick this year or next

STEPHEN CONIGLIO (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks
: First-round pick (compensation)
Value on open market: $1.1m-1.3m per seasonShould he move, would be a long-term deal upwards of $1 million per season. Would be the easiest of all free agency decisions to award a first-round pick to the Giants.
ADAM TOMLINSON (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
End of first-round or second-round pick (compensation)
Value on open market: $500,000-600,000 per seasonKey-position player adds more value to any move. Has been durable and missed just one game in three years so clubs won't hesitate on a long-term deal. A four or five-year deal could determine what the Giants are left with.
JONATHON PATTON (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
Third-round pick
Value on open market: $550,000-650,000 per season
Sounds like plenty but that's the ballpark of his existing deal for 2020. The Giants tried to offload Patton last year, but he appears destined for the Hawks this time around. Like Scully, expect the remaining salary to be smoothed out by adding a second or third year. Doesn't have the value to be demanding a strong pick.
AIDEN BONAR (GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY)
Draft picks:
Early second-round pick
Value on open market: $350,000-450,000 per season
Much like Will Setterfield (GWS to Carlton) last year, Victorian clubs are circling halfway into a healthy four-year deal that was topped up handsomely for seasons 2020 and 2021.
I think AT and cogs stay but maybe Patton and bonnar go

Those getting regular games rarely leave unless big $$ are offered. Big $$ probably are offered to them but that’s my hunch

The more I think about Ryder the more I think it’s a bad idea. He will be 32 and want a two year deal.... he has only just made it back into a struggling port side. I’m not sure he is the answer
 

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Callums_Guns

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I think the following players

Patton
Bonar
Buntine - may be re-drafted through rookie list and take the spot from Reid
1 of Lids or Heater pending on outcome of injuries back end of season if any and results from Sept
Sheridan - will be interesting if offer another year or similar to Buntine and put on rookie list for 2020

If Tomlinson if tests the market will be offered big $$$ from Vic so will be interesting 1 in the coming months if we can secure for less
 

Callums_Guns

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I think AT and cogs stay but maybe Patton and bonnar go

Those getting regular games rarely leave unless big $$ are offered. Big $$ probably are offered to them but that’s my hunch

The more I think about Ryder the more I think it’s a bad idea. He will be 32 and want a two year deal.... he has only just made it back into a struggling port side. I’m not sure he is the answer
We do need a top ruckman next season to take over, will be interesting to see what the club can pull off come come October

Ryder had a year off that is probably the only upside, if we can trade for mid - late 20's ruckman would be good
 

Mr Magic

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I think AT and cogs stay but maybe Patton and bonnar go

Those getting regular games rarely leave unless big $$ are offered. Big $$ probably are offered to them but that’s my hunch

The more I think about Ryder the more I think it’s a bad idea. He will be 32 and want a two year deal.... he has only just made it back into a struggling port side. I’m not sure he is the answer
Agree about Ryder. Maybe even try Jacobs the Adelaide ruckman that cannot get a gig. I think they would have to be better options.

If GWS wins this year or gets very close it might help lure other prospects. Even a younger prospect might be the go that is not far off breaking out
 

Danny88

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I think the following players

Patton
Bonar
Buntine - may be re-drafted through rookie list and take the spot from Reid
1 of Lids or Heater pending on outcome of injuries back end of season if any and results from Sept
Sheridan - will be interesting if offer another year or similar to Buntine and put on rookie list for 2020

If Tomlinson if tests the market will be offered big $$$ from Vic so will be interesting 1 in the coming months if we can secure for less
TBH all three of bonnar Patton and buntine would attract offers on the open market and there is absolutely no way they would be at GWS as rookies next year
 

Callums_Guns

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Patton we know will pretty certain be moved on reluctantly due to the size of his contract, time on the park etc etc

Bonar also likely to be traded unable to crack in the side however i highly rate, but would say both his manager and himself would like to test the waters in the trade period

You would think min.4 players need to come off the main list prior to the draft

Both Lids and Heater we wont know until end of the season and ball is probably in their court at the moment while they are healthy but the next 2 months will be interesting

Almost leaves Sheridan, Simpson and Buntine

Simpson wont be known until after trade period

Interesting times i will be more at ease like most others once Cogs puts pen to paper. Keep hearing it close.....fingers crossed not to far way
 

Danny88

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Last night confirmed Ryder needs to be out of calculations for our ruck problem
Next year. Likewise so should sauce Jacobs. These guys can’t get a run with struggling clubs atm so why would we want them?

I’m in favour of Cameron from the swans- get him in and give him an extended go
 

General Giant

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Last night confirmed Ryder needs to be out of calculations for our ruck problem
Next year. Likewise so should sauce Jacobs. These guys can’t get a run with struggling clubs atm so why would we want them?

I’m in favour of Cameron from the swans- get him in and give him an extended go
Agree.
Although still think Ceglar will be part of a Patton trade which could help.
 

Giant Strides

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So, currently we have 8 players out of contract this year on the main list. Given that we have only 39 mainlist players, we only need to shed two players to make room for the national draft (but I'd suggest realistically it will be 3-4). Of the 8, we obviously want to re-sign Cogs, but the remaining 7 are probably all expendable. 2 as potential retirements (Shaw, Lids) - plus Mummy of the rookie list; the others would be initiated by delisting, free agency departure or trades. In order of "expendableness", I'd suggest they are: Sheridan, Buntine, Keeffe, Simpson, Deledio, Tomlinson, Shaw.

Two other players are rumoured about moving (Patton and Bonar). I'd opine, though - as I do every year - that we want to be as stable as possible in player movement so I hope we don't lose 6 or 7. And we only have 4 significant picks - 2 firsts, a third and a fourth. Of the rookie list, we could upgrade anywhere between 1 and 3 players if we need to close mainlist gaps (Reid, Sproule & Stein IMHO) and only want to use a rookie list on someone (e.g. Peatling or Delahunty). I believe that Sproule and Stein will have both spent 3 years on the rookie list (both Cat B) so presume that we need to either upgrade them to the main list or de-list and re-list them. I'm not sure if either would be likely to have suitors if we did de-list them.

The big issue amongst the trade discussion that we don't know is the TPP situation. If there was no pressure on money, I wouldn't suggest we should lose Patton with his big $ contract, but if there is then I understand why we would. (Basically, if we're going to give Patton away for a 3rd round pick due to his big remaining contract and injury history, then we'd be better to just let his contract run out and trade him next year.) Similarly, I wouldn't be moving Bonar on even if he did want out - he's a potential Cogs replacement in terms of speed/forward capacity if we did happen to lose Cogs. The only reason to move Bonar is to get a high-ish draft pick (most likely second round though), also having decided that he won't work out in the Sydney environment.

One clear requirement is for a viable first grade ruckman while Flynn recovers from his ACL and Briggs develops. I'd also like a defender (essentially a Heath Shaw replacement) and a winger.

Of the academy crop, only Tom Green is a guaranteed pick up. To be honest, if we don't lose Cogs, we probably don't absolutely need a pure contested mid such as Green is, but I can't see that we'd overlook him. Peatling and Delahunty the other possibles, but late main draft selections or rookie list.

There's really 4 scenarios that we need to end up considering, caused by two essential alternative axes - winning the flag or not (in the former case I'd think Shaw, Lids & Mummy all retire, but not in the latter case) and secondly whether Cogs leaves or not (giving us at least another first round pick).

In reagrds the ruck situation, personally, I'm not a Ceglar fan, nor a Darcy Cameron fan. Neither I think is good enough to be the main ruck. But I'm not sure who we could get who's reasonable if we don't think Ryder is a goer. Perhaps we could entice Stef Martin from Brisbane for a two year contract, if the Lions think that Archie Smith & Oscar McInerny are ready? Yet his hitouts are less than both Dawson & Mummy's stats, but obviously better around the ground (which are the former two players' biggest deficiency).

I'm not keen to push Tommo out the door, being a great utility asset for us over the years, but I agree that his contract value shouldn't be that huge, and that could cause him to depart to someone who is prepared to pay more - likely only getting us a second round pick in free agency compensation.

A fairly complex situation for us; interesting to see how it plays out.
 

Danny88

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So, currently we have 8 players out of contract this year on the main list. Given that we have only 39 mainlist players, we only need to shed two players to make room for the national draft (but I'd suggest realistically it will be 3-4). Of the 8, we obviously want to re-sign Cogs, but the remaining 7 are probably all expendable. 2 as potential retirements (Shaw, Lids) - plus Mummy of the rookie list; the others would be initiated by delisting, free agency departure or trades. In order of "expendableness", I'd suggest they are: Sheridan, Buntine, Keeffe, Simpson, Deledio, Tomlinson, Shaw.

Two other players are rumoured about moving (Patton and Bonar). I'd opine, though - as I do every year - that we want to be as stable as possible in player movement so I hope we don't lose 6 or 7. And we only have 4 significant picks - 2 firsts, a third and a fourth. Of the rookie list, we could upgrade anywhere between 1 and 3 players if we need to close mainlist gaps (Reid, Sproule & Stein IMHO) and only want to use a rookie list on someone (e.g. Peatling or Delahunty). I believe that Sproule and Stein will have both spent 3 years on the rookie list (both Cat B) so presume that we need to either upgrade them to the main list or de-list and re-list them. I'm not sure if either would be likely to have suitors if we did de-list them.

The big issue amongst the trade discussion that we don't know is the TPP situation. If there was no pressure on money, I wouldn't suggest we should lose Patton with his big $ contract, but if there is then I understand why we would. (Basically, if we're going to give Patton away for a 3rd round pick due to his big remaining contract and injury history, then we'd be better to just let his contract run out and trade him next year.) Similarly, I wouldn't be moving Bonar on even if he did want out - he's a potential Cogs replacement in terms of speed/forward capacity if we did happen to lose Cogs. The only reason to move Bonar is to get a high-ish draft pick (most likely second round though), also having decided that he won't work out in the Sydney environment.

One clear requirement is for a viable first grade ruckman while Flynn recovers from his ACL and Briggs develops. I'd also like a defender (essentially a Heath Shaw replacement) and a winger.

Of the academy crop, only Tom Green is a guaranteed pick up. To be honest, if we don't lose Cogs, we probably don't absolutely need a pure contested mid such as Green is, but I can't see that we'd overlook him. Peatling and Delahunty the other possibles, but late main draft selections or rookie list.

There's really 4 scenarios that we need to end up considering, caused by two essential alternative axes - winning the flag or not (in the former case I'd think Shaw, Lids & Mummy all retire, but not in the latter case) and secondly whether Cogs leaves or not (giving us at least another first round pick).

In reagrds the ruck situation, personally, I'm not a Ceglar fan, nor a Darcy Cameron fan. Neither I think is good enough to be the main ruck. But I'm not sure who we could get who's reasonable if we don't think Ryder is a goer. Perhaps we could entice Stef Martin from Brisbane for a two year contract, if the Lions think that Archie Smith & Oscar McInerny are ready? Yet his hitouts are less than both Dawson & Mummy's stats, but obviously better around the ground (which are the former two players' biggest deficiency).

I'm not keen to push Tommo out the door, being a great utility asset for us over the years, but I agree that his contract value shouldn't be that huge, and that could cause him to depart to someone who is prepared to pay more - likely only getting us a second round pick in free agency compensation.

A fairly complex situation for us; interesting to see how it plays out.
Great summary. I think the ruck scouting situation has changed a lot. With flynn doing his ACL we move from a ruck on the outer at the end of their career to trying to lure a genuine ruck who has An upside. This is why I think I like Cameron- he is the right age profile to have a decent upside as he nears his prime years.

Doubt Martin leaves the lions- they would want him and he wouldn’t want to leave their success
 

Giant Strides

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With Flynn doing his ACL we move from a ruck on the outer at the end of their career to trying to lure a genuine ruck who has An upside. This is why I think I like Cameron- he is the right age profile to have a decent upside as he nears his prime years.

Doubt Martin leaves the lions- they would want him and he wouldn’t want to leave their success.
The ruck dilemma. If they're first ruck at either a good club or on decent coin, they won't leave. A second ruck won't leave if they think the first ruck will retire or be moved on in a year or two. But you're often unsure if the second ruck is anything decent. A veteran ruck might leave if pushed out for a decent second ruck. But then they might be past it and you've wasted your $, picks & effort. Add in the difficulty of getting someone to move to Sydney. It leaves pretty few options for us.

Cameron's stats aren't good - he's an average ruck on what he's done to date. Could he get better? Possibly, but I'm not sure it's worth what we might have to pay to get him. I agree Martin probably doesn't want to leave and Brisbane probably doesn't give him up. It probably does leave Ceglar - if he's even willing to come - as one of the few viable options. Preuss might have been an option last year, but either we weren't interested or he was keener to head to Melbourne.

I'd suggest then if Mummy retires then we'd keep Simpson on the books, along with Briggs, and whoever we can get. Keeffe would be the "emergency ruck" while Flynn is recovering next year. The biggest question mark for trade time it would seem.
 

Giant Pete

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What do you think about re-signing Heater and Lids?
Personally I’d rather us put our money into younger guys.
I’d also trade out Bonar and Tomlinson. That will give us two second rounders and more cash. I know just everyone would disagree with trading out those two.
Also Mummy is cooked imo. There’s more cash.
Patton’s off to the Hawks, so there’s even more cash!

Tall Backs: Davis Corr Taylor Haynes Keeffe Stein Idun

Small backs: Williams Kennedy Cumming Brown Reid Perryman

Mids: Ward Cogs Kelly Whitfield Taranto Hopper Caldwell OHalloran DeBoer Lloyd Sheridan Shipley Hately

Small Forwards: Daniels Langdon Hill Greene

Tall Forwards: JC, Finlayson, HH, Sproule

Rucks: Simpson, Briggs, Flynn

The biggest gap on our list will be Ruck. Mummy gone, Simpson back up at best and Flynn out for the season. Briggs barely plays in there at neafl. We should be going hard after a good ruck (not Ryder).
 

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