Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Sector 7G]

Gibbons is a near archetypal 'Richmond' player and on field antagonist. The grass isn't always greener, jezzman.

Does anyone here think that Castagna would still be on our list after 5 years with his disposal? Suits Tigers game plan and because they are winning him continually missing goals gets a pass.

 

[Stamos]

Does anyone here think that Castagna would still be on our list after 5 years with his disposal? Suits Tigers game plan and because they are winning him continually missing goals gets a pass.

Imagine they got rolled and he managed 0.5 from 6 shots

 

[blue_trinity]

Imagine they got rolled and he managed 0.5 from 6 shots

+ 1 on the full

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Gun Swans forward reveals his preferred club

Papley at centre of tug-of-war over future

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[thylacine60]

^^^^^
breaking

 

[therubbernub]

The main reason we do not risk personality traits is the fact that our list manager has 2 of his sons on our list, and potentially another in a couple of years .


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[therubbernub]

Before Richmond, it was Hawthorn with elite keepings off and before that Geelong with an elite rebounding defense and midfielders running in waves. I am happy for us to develop our own plan, built off coaches' ideas and leveraging our talent profile.

errr yes but that takes discipline and time. And not to deviate from the plan. BB was doing that and ran out of time. What if DT sits down and looks at our strengths and weaknesses and comes up with a new game plan that he thinks will ultimately win a flag based on our list strengths, and then loses the first 6 games in 2020?
Couldnt happen? Look back on the tigers starts to the year under Hardwick- would we have had the same courage and patience?

 

[therubbernub]

Agree. Still think we need a few more explosive types however. We have built a great base to work from, now we hunt for our needs.

We had garlett and pickett- didnt work out

 

[therubbernub]

Pickett played 1 game.......in a loaded team

and how often do mercurial type players get off the chain in their first few games , only to come down to earth once the opposition work out how to negate them.

 

[therubbernub]

Gun Swans forward reveals his preferred club

Papley at centre of tug-of-war over future

wwos.nine.com.au

And they said he would never nominate....

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

We had garlett and pickett- didnt work out

Try, try again.

 

[JustaBattler]

What if anything does chasing Papley/Martin/Butler and even Betts have to say about Kennedy/Cuningham/Fisher/Dow/SPS?

Gibbons has out delivered on his 'cost' - others have way under delivered in 2019. Forced to choose I reckon Gibbons hard running is a greater attribute than Fisher's dinky jinks or Dow's fumbles and hacks with ball in hand - Dow cost pick 3 or 4 didn't he?

I'd have Gibbons playing ahead of Fisher/Dow right now anywhere on the park. SPS has somewhat redeemed himself off HBF under Teague - but that wasn't really what he was recruited for was it? Cuningham and Kennedy have had the injury horrors for a couple of years - will they, like Marchbank and Williamson get their bodies right for 2020 or not?

I'm not a buyer of the desperate for genuine small forwards equals Papley or Martin - yes Betts is a specialist small forward but teh first two I reckon will be keeping a few of the class pets out for a long time.

 

[HaydossJ]

What if anything does chasing Papley/Martin/Butler and even Betts have to say about Kennedy/Cuningham/Fisher/Dow/SPS?

Gibbons has out delivered on his 'cost' - others have way under delivered in 2019. Forced to choose I reckon Gibbons hard running is a greater attribute than Fisher's dinky jinks or Dow's fumbles and hacks with ball in hand - Dow cost pick 3 or 4 didn't he?

I'd have Gibbons playing ahead of Fisher/Dow right now anywhere on the park. SPS has somewhat redeemed himself off HBF under Teague - but that wasn't really what he was recruited for was it? Cuningham and Kennedy have had the injury horrors for a couple of years - will they, like Marchbank and Williamson get their bodies right for 2020 or not?

I'm not a buyer of the desperate for genuine small forwards equals Papley or Martin - yes Betts is a specialist small forward but teh first two I reckon will be keeping a few of the class pets out for a long time.

It's a great problem to have.

 

[Blue__Balls]

What if anything does chasing Papley/Martin/Butler and even Betts have to say about Kennedy/Cuningham/Fisher/Dow/SPS?

Gibbons has out delivered on his 'cost' - others have way under delivered in 2019. Forced to choose I reckon Gibbons hard running is a greater attribute than Fisher's dinky jinks or Dow's fumbles and hacks with ball in hand - Dow cost pick 3 or 4 didn't he?

I'd have Gibbons playing ahead of Fisher/Dow right now anywhere on the park. SPS has somewhat redeemed himself off HBF under Teague - but that wasn't really what he was recruited for was it? Cuningham and Kennedy have had the injury horrors for a couple of years - will they, like Marchbank and Williamson get their bodies right for 2020 or not?

I'm not a buyer of the desperate for genuine small forwards equals Papley or Martin - yes Betts is a specialist small forward but teh first two I reckon will be keeping a few of the class pets out for a long time.

Says they're young players who have more developing to do before they're ready to win a flag for Carlton.

That's OK.

Most of those blokes you named are positional question marks.

Kennedy - picked him up as a big-bodied mid, but now he's maybe more a Caddy-style forward.
Cuningham - picked his up as a burst mid, but now he's maybe more a De Goey-style forward.
Fisher - picked him up as an inside/outside mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, probably still a midfielder long-term.
Dow - picked him up as an explosive clearance mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, certainly a midfielder long-term.
SPS - picked him up as a classy balanced mid, has been moved down back and impressed, could stay there or perhaps move back to the midfield.

If Papley and Martin keep two of those five out of the side for a while, good. That means our midfield is firing, our forward line is firing, and we have quality players waiting to step up to cover for injury, when Murphy, Curnow, Simpson, etc. retire or if someone gets lured away by an opposition club.

We just need to get our shit together on-field so those guys being held out of the side want to fight to be part of our success, not chase it somewhere else because we're still "battling".

 

[HaydossJ]

Assuming players that have nominated Carlton get to us in the trade period (not counting Butler yet as it hasn't been reported officially):

B: Newman Jones Plowman
HB: Docherty Weitering Marchbank
C: Setterfield Cripps Walsh
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy
HF: McGovern McKay Martin
F: Betts Curnow Papley
INT: SPS Silvagni Cuningham Simpson

EMG: Fisher Dow O'Brien Phillips

RES: Gibbons Kennedy Stocker Casboult Williamson TDK Lang Polson Macreadie Silvagni O'Dwyer

Let Dow & Stocker learn their craft in the 2s until they are ready to take over from Murphy & Curnow.

My biggest concern with the proposed 22 is are we happy with McKay chopping out for Kreuzer?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Assuming players that have nominated Carlton get to us in the trade period (not counting Butler yet as it hasn't been reported officially):

B: Newman Jones Plowman
HB: Docherty Weitering Marchbank
C: Setterfield Cripps Walsh
R: Kreuzer Curnow Murphy
HF: McGovern McKay Martin
F: Betts Curnow Papley
INT: SPS Silvagni Cuningham Simpson

EMG: Fisher Dow O'Brien Phillips

RES: Gibbons Kennedy Stocker Casboult Williamson TDK Lang Polson Macreadie Silvagni O'Dwyer

Let Dow & Stocker learn their craft in the 2s until they are ready to take over from Murphy & Curnow.

My biggest concern with the proposed 22 is are we happy with McKay chopping out for Kreuzer?

I'm fine with it.

Coming into his 5th season.

If Tim English can ruck full time against the best rucks in the comp without being reduced to a barely functional cripple, I'm fairly sure McKay can survive a dozen ruck contests per game. Not to say he'd win them, but at his size he's at least gotta be able to keep an opposition ruck honest if he's serious about being an AFL player.

 

[thylacine60]

errr yes but that takes discipline and time. And not to deviate from the plan. BB was doing that and ran out of time. What if DT sits down and looks at our strengths and weaknesses and comes up with a new game plan that he thinks will ultimately win a flag based on our list strengths, and then loses the first 6 games in 2020?
Couldnt happen? Look back on the tigers starts to the year under Hardwick- would we have had the same courage and patience?
View attachment 755934View attachment 755935View attachment 755936View attachment 755937View attachment 755938View attachment 755939

quality reporting right there...........

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Those bringing up players like Stack and Pickett, sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Richmond had zero luck with the Yarran trade. It is easier when you already have a premiership quality side to work from

Yep it’s called nothing to lose..

 

[JustaBattler]

Says they're young players who have more developing to do before they're ready to win a flag for Carlton.

That's OK.

Most of those blokes you named are positional question marks.

Kennedy - picked him up as a big-bodied mid, but now he's maybe more a Caddy-style forward.
Cuningham - picked his up as a burst mid, but now he's maybe more a De Goey-style forward.
Fisher - picked him up as an inside/outside mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, probably still a midfielder long-term.
Dow - picked him up as an explosive clearance mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, certainly a midfielder long-term.
SPS - picked him up as a classy balanced mid, has been moved down back and impressed, could stay there or perhaps move back to the midfield.

If Papley and Martin keep two of those five out of the side for a while, good. That means our midfield is firing, our forward line is firing, and we have quality players waiting to step up to cover for injury, when Murphy, Curnow, Simpson, etc. retire or if someone gets lured away by an opposition club.

We just need to get our s**t together on-field so those guys being held out of the side want to fight to be part of our success, not chase it somewhere else because we're still "battling".

Yep I can see a lot of VFL time for Kennedy/Fisher/Dow/LoB/Stocker and maybe even Cuningham in 2020.

 

[FRUMPY]

Says they're young players who have more developing to do before they're ready to win a flag for Carlton.

That's OK.

Most of those blokes you named are positional question marks.

Kennedy - picked him up as a big-bodied mid, but now he's maybe more a Caddy-style forward.
Cuningham - picked his up as a burst mid, but now he's maybe more a De Goey-style forward.
Fisher - picked him up as an inside/outside mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, probably still a midfielder long-term.
Dow - picked him up as an explosive clearance mid, has been moved forward and not impressed, certainly a midfielder long-term.
SPS - picked him up as a classy balanced mid, has been moved down back and impressed, could stay there or perhaps move back to the midfield.

If Papley and Martin keep two of those five out of the side for a while, good. That means our midfield is firing, our forward line is firing, and we have quality players waiting to step up to cover for injury, when Murphy, Curnow, Simpson, etc. retire or if someone gets lured away by an opposition club.

We just need to get our s**t together on-field so those guys being held out of the side want to fight to be part of our success, not chase it somewhere else because we're still "battling".

A De-Goey style forward...........not sure what you have seen but Cuningham is nothing like de-goey

 

[Blue__Balls]

A De-Goey style forward...........not sure what you have seen but Cuningham is nothing like de-goey

Exactly like for like, perhaps not. But I think both are players whose strength and acceleration make them dangerous around stoppages inside the forward 50. Best utilised hitting the packs at pace and coming out with the ball for a quick shot at goal.

See some similarities to Robbie Gray as well, though I think he's much more proficient on the lead than either Cunners or De Goey.

Definitely don't think Cunners has the marking ability in a one-on-one of someone in the Dusty Martin mold.

Just had a quick squizz at the AFL ratings list for small/medium forwards, and Jamie Cripps is maybe a better example of what I'm getting at. Again though, I think Cunners is less adept in the air on exposed form.

He's a bit of a hybrid type. Looks like he should be a midfielder, and can probably still become one, but seems better utilised as an impact player up forward with occasional stints on the ball later in games.

 

[FRUMPY]

Exactly like for like, perhaps not. But I think both are players whose strength and acceleration make them dangerous around stoppages inside the forward 50. Best utilised hitting the packs at pace and coming out with the ball for a quick shot at goal.

See some similarities to Robbie Gray as well, though I think he's much more proficient on the lead than either Cunners or De Goey.

Definitely don't think Cunners has the marking ability in a one-on-one of someone in the Dusty Martin mold.

Just had a quick squizz at the AFL ratings list for small/medium forwards, and Jamie Cripps is maybe a better example of what I'm getting at. Again though, I think Cunners is less adept in the air on exposed form.

He's a bit of a hybrid type. Looks like he should be a midfielder, and can probably still become one, but seems better utilised as an impact player up forward with occasional stints on the ball later in games.

Yeah I agree with some of what you say (not the degoey comparison - he is much better on the lead and better mark and overall a much better player). He should spend 70/30 split as a fwd/mid. Small burst in the middle but should be a half forward who is at the feet of Charlie and harry. Needs to find the ball another 5-8 times a game and obviously stop being injured. His roving work in JLT and a couple of times this year were sublime - that's his role as well as linking up through the middle at times

 

[AB_Blue]

I'm fine with it.

Coming into his 5th season.

If Tim English can ruck full time against the best rucks in the comp without being reduced to a barely functional cripple, I'm fairly sure McKay can survive a dozen ruck contests per game. Not to say he'd win them, but at his size he's at least gotta be able to keep an opposition ruck honest if he's serious about being an AFL player.

I actually think McKay enjoys that little 5 min burst on the ball.




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[bluebrew]

It does seem that DT saw things differently to BB and got our forwards working far better together. But DT probably couldnt change too much mid season. IMO he will be working hard to change up a lot of our structures in the preseason, which opens up a whole new game plan. I can see a scenario where DT still sees Charlies gut running as a huge advantage that need s exploiting in this new game plan. I have no doubt this will be DT's major focus- to turn us into a high scoring team- we have the competitions most exciting group of forwards, that should be our natural advantage- it just need direction. Eddie will be invaluable to this end and have in the forward line, because he already understands the DT philosophy from adelaide days.

And Mcgovern should fit that as well.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yeah I agree with some of what you say (not the degoey comparison - he is much better on the lead and better mark and overall a much better player). He should spend 70/30 split as a fwd/mid. Small burst in the middle but should be a half forward who is at the feet of Charlie and harry. Needs to find the ball another 5-8 times a game and obviously stop being injured. His roving work in JLT and a couple of times this year were sublime - that's his role as well as linking up through the middle at times

Exact player matches are difficult to agree on, for sure.

As a type - small crumbing forward with the ability to win some clearances when shifted on-ball. Don't think there are many players around who do it well and consistently, but he's got the tools. Just needs continuity and confidence.