Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Macca43]

You seem to be arguing 2 different things. I seriously doubt we will get wines this year. So leave that alone.

But you're not taking those press releases at face value, surely?

As I said "definitive statements from all 3 parties involved that are incredibly hard to back away from and maintain credibility." Whether or not they are denying something that was true us irrelevant, you can't make such strident comments and do a complete 180.

"You seem to be arguing 2 different things. I seriously doubt we will get wines this year." No 1 thing, we will not be getting Wines this year so stop posting "rumours" that we will.

 

[jj1978]

Wines or no Wines, what I do believe is some other players saw the Cogs deal didn't happen, knew we had 1+ million in the kitty to spend and were seeking a top midfielder... not surprised if there were more than a couple round-about conversations about getting to the blues from many players.

 

[Aphrodite]

As I said "definitive statements from all 3 parties involved that are incredibly hard to back away from and maintain credibility." Whether or not they are denying something that was true us irrelevant, you can't make such strident comments and do a complete 180.

"You seem to be arguing 2 different things. I seriously doubt we will get wines this year." No 1 thing, we will not be getting Wines this year so stop posting "rumours" that we will.

Remember this ...

Giants refuse to deal big Boyd to Dogs

GREATER Western Sydney has point-blank refused to trade Tom Boyd, saying they will retain last year’s no. 1 selection even if it costs them outgoing Bulldog Ryan Griffen.

www.news.com.au

GWS boss David Matthews last night told the Herald Sun the Giants had ruled a line in the sand: Boyd will not leave the club.

“We are sincere in what we say — for the avoidance of doubt Tom Boyd is not going to be traded,’’ Matthews told the Herald Sun.

 

[Macca43]

Wines or no Wines, what I do believe is some other players saw the Cogs deal didn't happen, knew we had 1+ million in the kitty to spend and were seeking a top midfielder... not surprised if there were more than a couple round-about conversations about getting to the blues from many players.

Surely Wines is on a pretty good wicket already.

 

[Macca43]

Remember this ...

Giants refuse to deal big Boyd to Dogs

GREATER Western Sydney has point-blank refused to trade Tom Boyd, saying they will retain last year’s no. 1 selection even if it costs them outgoing Bulldog Ryan Griffen.

www.news.com.au

That was the club, we have the club, the agent and the receiving club all denying it was true. Throw on top that Boyd wasn't the club captain and this is a lot different to that.

Not to mention we don't have a Griffen or pick 6 to offer let alone both.

 

[FRUMPY]

That was the club, we have the club, the agent and the receiving club all denying it was true. Throw on top that Boyd wasn't the club captain and this is a lot different to that.

Not to mention we don't have a Griffen or pick 6 to offer let alone both.

You seem to be arguing with nobody who is saying we are getting wines......go and argue on the thread and with the people who are saying we are getting wines.......

 

[Stamos]

As I said "definitive statements from all 3 parties involved that are incredibly hard to back away from and maintain credibility." Whether or not they are denying something that was true us irrelevant, you can't make such strident comments and do a complete 180.

"You seem to be arguing 2 different things. I seriously doubt we will get wines this year." No 1 thing, we will not be getting Wines this year so stop posting "rumours" that we will.

The reason we won't be getting Wines has absolutely nothing to do with 'official statements', or credibility, or time left in the trade period, and everything to do with the currency we have, and how we rate/desire Wines.

If we changed our mind and said to Port you can have #9 and our future 1st it would 100% get done before 7:30 tomorrow.

 

[Macca43]

The reason we won't be getting Wines has absolutely nothing to do with 'official statements', or credibility, or time left in the trade period, and everything to do with the currency we have, and how we rate/desire Wines.

If we changed our mind and said to Port you can have #9 and our future 1st it would 100% get done before 7:30 tomorrow.

Sigh.

At the end of the day my original post saying we aren't getting Wines and can people stop pretending we are is accurate something you agree with. The fact I believe it is incredibly unlikely all 3 parities would issue statements denying the rumour only to reverse their position 24 hours later and that by the time we give up on Papley there won't be time to orchestrate a trade for Wines simply strengthen the part we both agree on - we don't have the capital or the desire to get him.

 

[Macca43]

You seem to be arguing with nobody who is saying we are getting wines......go and argue on the thread and with the people who are saying we are getting wines.......

I would if I could.

But why did Aph post the Boyd story if she wasn't suggesting it was still possible.

 

[Stamos]

The fact I believe it is incredibly unlikely all 3 parities would issue statements denying the rumour only to reverse their position 24 hours later and that by the time we give up on Papley there won't be time to orchestrate a trade for Wines simply strengthen the part we both agree on - we don't have the capital or the desire to get him.

No.
If we gave up on Papley, we would have both the time and the currency to do a deal.

 

[Macca43]

No.
If we gave up on Papley, we would have both the time and the currency to do a deal.

That is your belief and you are entitled to it, I believe differently, of course neither as of us think that we will give up on Papley we will never know who is correct, but my original statement is still correct.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

Wines or no Wines, what I do believe is some other players saw the Cogs deal didn't happen, knew we had 1+ million in the kitty to spend and were seeking a top midfielder... not surprised if there were more than a couple round-about conversations about getting to the blues from many players.

 

[gbatman]

We have probably been aware of what GCS and Sydney will accept for Martin and Papley for ages and we probably have that but...

We are probably waiting for other clubs to do trades and bring in picks so that we can get them for the best deal possible.

I just get the feeling there is going to be some club hoping to end up with multiple picks around the middle/end of the first round or early in the second round that will be willing to trade them for our pick 9 and perhaps something else from us.

I am guessing we are waiting for that to happen so that we can use pick 9 to get both Martin and Papley without using next year's first which would be awesome.

We already see a few clubs who have these picks. Geelong, Gold Coast, Port and Brisbane. I guess they don't want to deal with us or perhaps they are waiting for us or one of our trading partners to acquire picks so they can.

My guess is Sydney, Carlton and Essendon are waiting for someone to get another early second late/mid first to join in a 4 way trade.

Or perhaps we can do it with Geelong but just haven't yet. Maybe a piece is missing.

14, 9 to ess

31, 5 to geelong

24, Papley to carlton

17, Daniher to sydney

Then 24 for Martin.

or

Ess - 18, 9

Port - 5, 33

Carl - 29, Papley

Sydney - 12, Daniher

Then 29 or 29+ for Martin. Something like that.


I guess we need to wait and see what happens but gee if we get Martin and Papley for pick 9 (even with steak knife picks) that is well worth the wait.

I really hope people can see why clubs wait so long to do deals. Just never know what will pop up and allow you to do. Tomorrow should be exciting times.

If we go into next season with our first and second and future first and seconds that would be huge. Would bring about another big trade period and who knows, our future first and second could still do some damage in this years trade period as well. Massive day tomorrow if we could swing something like that.

Certainly makes getting a Wines very very achievable.

 

[Macca43]

We have probably been aware of what GCS and Sydney will accept for Martin and Papley for ages and we probably have that but...

We are probably waiting for other clubs to do trades and bring in picks so that we can get them for the best deal possible.

I just get the feeling there is going to be some club hoping to end up with multiple picks around the middle/end of the first round or early in the second round that will be willing to trade them for our pick 9 and perhaps something else from us.

I am guessing we are waiting for that to happen so that we can use pick 9 to get both Martin and Papley without using next year's first which would be awesome.

We already see a few clubs who have these picks. Geelong, Gold Coast, Port and Brisbane. I guess they don't want to deal with us or perhaps they are waiting for us or one of our trading partners to acquire picks so they can.

My guess is Sydney, Carlton and Essendon are waiting for someone to get another early second late/mid first to join in a 4 way trade.

Or perhaps we can do it with Geelong but just haven't yet. Maybe a piece is missing.

14, 9 to ess

31, 5 to geelong

24, Papley to carlton

17, Daniher to sydney

Then 24 for Martin.

or

Ess - 18, 9

Port - 5, 33

Carl - 29, Papley

Sydney - 12, Daniher

Then 29 or 29+ for Martin. Something like that.


I guess we need to wait and see what happens but gee if we get Martin and Papley for pick 9 (even with steak knife picks) that is well worth the wait.

I really hope people can see why clubs wait so long to do deals. Just never know what will pop up and allow you to do. Tomorrow should be exciting times.

If we go into next season with our first and second and future first and seconds that would be huge. Would bring about another big trade period and who knows, our future first and second could still do some damage in this years trade period as well. Massive day tomorrow if we could swing something like that.

Certainly makes getting a Wines very very achievable.

I said a couple of days ago Essendon should take 5 & 9 for Daniher and then add another pick in a deal with Geelong. The Blues could do it but I doubt the Swans would take less than 9

 

[LemmingMaster]

If we could somehow get back into the draft with a mid second round pick that would be handy.

I would not mind a Taylor, Williams, Bergman, Weightman, Taheny... One of those forwards that may drift on draft day.

Give them two years or so to learn from Eddie Betts and develop our next group.

Will Day is another guy that could drift and may be a worth while pick that takes a few years to develop.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Thought Blues fans might like a hawk fan’s 2 cents on Pittonet.

Pros:
Decent tap ruckman
Impossible to move
Agro, great tackler
Loves to show that he has +10cm and +20kg on the opposition’s resident tough guy.
Seems to make good decisions in general play

Cons:
Technically not a great kick
Isn’t a prolific mark at VFL level
He’s a chest marker, doesn’t extend the arms (leading some to joke/seriously suggest that his hands are too small)
Can spray a set shot
Needs to work on endurance

Overall he’s a good prospect because of his age. Plenty to work with, he’s improved every year. He’s clearly very durable because he rucks week in week out for box hill. If he simply improves his ability to mark the ball then he will be fantastic for the blues.

 

[Mezzoculo]

I’ll have to look that one one up.

It's the philosophical dilemma one faces when deciding which type of pet to choose at the petstore - cat or not cat.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

It's the philosophical dilemma one faces when deciding which type of pet to choose at the petstore - cat or not cat.

I’d be ****ed. I’d take one of each pet.

 

[gbatman]

Players who are poor marks rarely improve this skill. A little at most. Pittonet will fill our ruck quota and be handy backup.

Don't know if he will be as good or better than Phillip's. Phillip's was a good backup ruckman. Pittonet will do alright as our backup I think.

Would expect TDK to push ahead of him.

Happy for Phillip's to explore the opportunity to become a number one ruck in the AFL. He's nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be on here but he's unlikely to have the opportunity to be number one at Carlton.

 

[Red Bull]

Happy to replace Phillips with Pittonet.
Papley Martin Betts Pittonet and keeping our future 1st in hand would be a great result this week.

 

[BluStreak]

Thought Blues fans might like a hawk fan’s 2 cents on Pittonet.
Cons:
Technically not a great kick
Isn’t a prolific mark at VFL level
He’s a chest marker, doesn’t extend the arms (leading some to joke/seriously suggest that his hands are too small)
Can spray a set shot
Needs to work on endurance

One Liam Jones was a chest marker as well never extended his hands, did not make it as a forward. Has learnt to extend his arms and now excels as a defender.

 

[Nori]

Thought Blues fans might like a hawk fan’s 2 cents on Pittonet.

Pros:
Decent tap ruckman
Impossible to move
Agro, great tackler
Loves to show that he has +10cm and +20kg on the opposition’s resident tough guy.
Seems to make good decisions in general play

Cons:
Technically not a great kick
Isn’t a prolific mark at VFL level
He’s a chest marker, doesn’t extend the arms (leading some to joke/seriously suggest that his hands are too small)
Can spray a set shot
Needs to work on endurance

Overall he’s a good prospect because of his age. Plenty to work with, he’s improved every year. He’s clearly very durable because he rucks week in week out for box hill. If he simply improves his ability to mark the ball then he will be fantastic for the blues.

Carlton could really do with an aggressive big guy that throws his weight around. Nothing wrong with a bit of mongrel on the field. Hopefully he gets the chance to line up Mumford in 2020.

Phillips had almost zero physical presence around the ground!

 

[Red Bull]

Carlton could really do with an aggressive big guy that throws his weight around. Nothing wrong with a bit of mongrel on the field. Hopefully he gets the chance to line up Mumford in 2020.

Phillips had almost zero physical presence around the ground!

It’s an important point.
The ruckman should always have a physical presence and set the tone for the team.
Phillips was terrible in this regard and the North game this year still burns.
North came out to play that day with a clear mindset to physically intimidate our younger players.
At one point there was a physical scrimmage in our forward line and our youngsters were doing their best to fly the flag for each other.
Marley Williams, the small North defender, came aggressively at Phillips who was loitering passively on the outskirts of the dustup and to my absolute horror, Phillips offered no resistance and instead, turned and ran off towards the centre of the ground leaving his young teammates to face the physical onslaught themselves.
Needless to say, the tone of the game was set and North belted us all day.
I can’t say I’ve seen Pittonet play but he has had a decent grounding, is the right age, plays every week and reportedly brings a physical presence to the contest.
As a backup/bridging ruckman between Kreuzer and TDK, I’m happy to have Pittonet on board and he may even surprise.
Phillips won’t be missed.

 

[HARKER]

Phillips set the tone for his season early on, being next to useless early on in his Northern Blues games.

The form (or intent) picked up mid year but it was a very disinterested start to 2019 for Phillips.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Can't see Essendon parting with a third rounder for him either.