Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

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Jimmae

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I don't see why we need a fourth ruck on the list.

Kreuzer, Pittonet and TDK should be more than enough for 2020.
2nds in 2020:

FB: BSOS Macreadie <???>
HB: Newnes Goddard Newman
C: Polson Lang Martin
HF: Owies TDK <???>
FF: Kennedy Casboult <???>

R: Pittonet Stocker Gibbons

Int: Finbar, Cottrell, <???>, <???>

SOS talked about TDK as a forward/ruck when drafted, and I'm sure Teague is locked into that idea as well. Whoever the fu** put him into a program where he now looks like he added 5kg of muscle to each arse cheek needs to revisit their understanding of his athletic traits.

We can, and should, draft a long term lead ruck. Levi might be out the door at the end of next year, and Kreuzer won't be around forever. Pittonet has potential, but he could just as easily have hit his ceiling. It's worth investing in a kid.

I could live with Gould or Kemp at 15, but I’d be unhappy with Sharp at 20.

I don’t see him being anything other than an unaccountable HBF type at senior level IMO.
If you're viewing him through the lens of a defender, he'll always look bad because he's an outside mid who needs to develop his contested game a tiny bit more to fit into an AFL midfield.

WA had a glut of midfield options, so there's a solid chance he was pushed to one side at the request of recruiters.
 

Jeremias

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2nds in 2020:

FB: BSOS Macreadie <???>
HB: Newnes Goddard Newman
C: Polson Lang Martin
HF: Owies TDK <???>
FF: Kennedy Casboult <???>

R: Pittonet Stocker Gibbons

Int: Finbar, Cottrell, <???>, <???>

SOS talked about TDK as a forward/ruck when drafted, and I'm sure Teague is locked into that idea as well. Whoever the fu** put him into a program where he now looks like he added 5kg of muscle to each arse cheek needs to revisit their understanding of his athletic traits.

We can, and should, draft a long term lead ruck. Levi might be out the door at the end of next year, and Kreuzer won't be around forever. Pittonet has potential, but he could just as easily have hit his ceiling. It's worth investing in a kid.
There was an interview recently where Agresta (I think) was asked about TDK and where he sees Tom playing in 2020 and beyond.

His answer was in the ruck, and he was pretty emphatic about it too.

There is no reason why we need another specialist ruck, especially given we have a few others who can pinch hit in there if and when needed.

If we're that worried about it, we can always add one to the Northern Blues squad.
 

Jimmae

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There was an interview recently where Agresta (I think) was asked about TDK and where he sees Tom playing in 2020 and beyond.

His answer was in the ruck, and he was pretty emphatic about it too.

There is no reason why we need another specialist ruck, especially given we have a few others who can pinch hit in there if and when needed.

If we're that worried about it, we can always add one to the Northern Blues squad.
Agresta has a nasty habit of filling me with zero confidence about his abilities.

We 100% should be looking at a young tall forward or ruck to develop, and I think TDK has an amazing skill set as a forward.
 

Jeremias

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Agresta has a nasty habit of filling me with zero confidence about his abilities.
Not sure why. He doesn't spend a lot of time in the public eye so I've got no idea what you'd be basing your opinion on.

We 100% should be looking at a young tall forward or ruck to develop, and I think TDK has an amazing skill set as a forward.
Don't think we need another tall forward, though I'm not completely opposed to one. A ruck though would be a complete waste given what we've got at our disposal, and it could be detrimental if indeed we do see Tom as a ruck going forward.

We had too many in 2019 with Kreuzer, Lobbe, Phillips and TKD. Kreuzer, Pittonet and TDK is a much better balance, and I'd expect to see the Northern Blues benefit immediately from shedding one from the list.
 

Bamboo Harvester

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Agresta has a nasty habit of filling me with zero confidence about his abilities.

We 100% should be looking at a young tall forward or ruck to develop, and I think TDK has an amazing skill set as a forward.
I think you may be a little hard on Agresta, but the proof of the pud will be in the eating I guess.

I agree with you 100% that we should be looking at a young ruck to develop - I've banged on about it in previous threads....AP and Lobbe gone, so we're down to an aging/injury prone Krooz along with Pittonet, and TDK who is a forward/ruck along the lines of Cas.

Get a young ruck like now to develop over the next 3-4 years like a Ben Kelly....who would cost us jack shizen in the ND.
 

TerryWallet

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I don't know how many times the club have to say it, or demonstrate it with its actions, that they see TDK as a developing ruckman who they're happy with.

We have 3 ruckmen on our list, Kruezer(30), Pittonet(23) and TDK(20). Then we have a forward/ruck relief in McKay(22) and a pinch hit ruck in Casboult(30).

We have this area well covered . When one of the older 2 leave or if one of the younger ones proves he's no good, well then we'll replace them. But at the moment we've got it right imo.
 

Jimmae

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I haven't seen a single match played by TDK that has left me saying "that's a full time ruck."

Literally not a single game, not even a single quarter. Do people really believe that he was being held back from the position that much?
 

TerryWallet

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I haven't seen a single match played by TDK that has left me saying "that's a full time ruck."

Literally not a single game, not even a single quarter. Do people really believe that he was being held back from the position that much?

Our List Manager literally said 2 weeks ago, and strongly, when directly asked if we saw TDK as more a forward or a ruck that we see TDK as a developing ruckman and that we are very happy with him.
 

HARKER

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Agresta has a nasty habit of filling me with zero confidence about his abilities.

We 100% should be looking at a young tall forward or ruck to develop, and I think TDK has an amazing skill set as a forward.
Agresta has a nasty habit?
Don't you think it may be you that has the 'nasty habit' of being affected, rather than Agresta.

Upon my viewing I can see why we'd want TDK as a ruckman first.
Good leap, competitive in the air and and very competitive on the ground thereafter.
Mobile around the ground and has the smarts to get to the right spots, unlike Phillips.

Of course he has work to do but wouldn't that be the case with most young ruck-men.
We don't need another 18-20 year old and we didn't really address immediate ruck needs via this trade period, but it also made sense not to given there wasn't anything 'special' around. That may change as soon as next year though.
 

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HARKER

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Kennedy gets some very harsh criticism, he’s never going to be a A grader, but he has some really good traits, he’s actually a pretty good kick off both feet, has a very good footy IQ, he does a lot of team effort based things like block smoother tackle, think the fact that he’s struggled to stay on the park has really hurt him, still think he can be a handy role player, inside mid rotation that can bash crash and do some of the hard stuff, then go forward and get a adventurous match up.
Kennedy may have started this season behind the eight-ball for injury, but he was bad early on.
There was little sign of any midfield ability at all and it had little to do with injury but more to do with positioning.

Anyway, it's a big pre-season coming up for him, as if he doesn't make impact early, he could easily be left behind.
Not sure a forward spot will be his go going forward - It may be but I doubt it given the types we already have involved.
Midfield or bust it seems to me.
 

Doro

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Kennedy may have started this season behind the eight-ball for injury, but he was bad early on.
There was little sign of any midfield ability at all and it had little to do with injury but more to do with positioning.

Anyway, it's a big pre-season coming up for him, as if he doesn't make impact early, he could easily be left behind.
Not sure a forward spot will be his go going forward - It may be but I doubt it given the types we already have involved.
Midfield or bust it seems to me.
I think with our battles to kick goals over recent years that you play people where they add value. Kennedy has shown the knack of kicking goals, so should play where he can do that. I think he gets too exposed for leg speed at the top level when playing midfield -fighting with JSOS and Cas for the 3rd tall/bench spot when we are fully fit.
 

HARKER

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I think with our battles to kick goals over recent years that you play people where they add value. Kennedy has shown the knack of kicking goals, so should play where he can do that. I think he gets too exposed for leg speed at the top level when playing midfield -fighting with JSOS and Cas for the 3rd tall/bench spot when we are fully fit.
# 11 GWS - Matt Kennedy (NSW / 187cm / 84kg)


Really shot out as a prospect this year and will build on an already deep midfield unit for the Giants. In saying that he is equally as good off HB and has shown real promise as a medium forward as well which is an area the Giants need help in. Strong powerful kid with pace and poise and an excellent decision maker. Loves the rough and tumble and already has a decent body shape on him which should see him able to play pretty quickly. I really like the way he moves and takes the game on. Aggressive runner and elite ball user on either side and loves finishing off with a goal.


Taken from a Phantom Draft and agree with the 'strong and powerful, but where's this pace and excellent decision making?
He could even get away without the pace if his decision making was excellent.....but it just hasn't been.
 

Doro

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# 11 GWS - Matt Kennedy (NSW / 187cm / 84kg)


Really shot out as a prospect this year and will build on an already deep midfield unit for the Giants. In saying that he is equally as good off HB and has shown real promise as a medium forward as well which is an area the Giants need help in. Strong powerful kid with pace and poise and an excellent decision maker. Loves the rough and tumble and already has a decent body shape on him which should see him able to play pretty quickly. I really like the way he moves and takes the game on. Aggressive runner and elite ball user on either side and loves finishing off with a goal.

Taken from a Phantom Draft and agree with the 'strong and powerful, but where's this pace and excellent decision making?
He could even get away without the pace if his decision making was excellent.....but it just hasn't been.
Not sure where the observation of pace came from, he tested slow in the combine and hasn't shown anything other than pedestrian speed since. Haven't noticed any issues with his decision making.
 

murphster

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Not sure where the observation of pace came from, he tested slow in the combine and hasn't shown anything other than pedestrian speed since. Haven't noticed any issues with his decision making.
Kennedy is one that could really benefit by putting in some extra time with Diesel in the pre season to work on his positioning and how to use his bulk better in the contest, no reason why he couldn’t develop into the help that Cripps needs.
 

HARKER

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Kennedy is one that could really benefit by putting in some extra time with Diesel in the pre season to work on his positioning and how to use his bulk better in the contest, no reason why he couldn’t develop into the help that Cripps needs.
This would make for a very good start, but surely he isn't anywhere near as bad as he was in the first half of the year - Maybe it was a confidence thing.

Right now though, there may not be too many of us having him a senior-team starter, next year. Plenty of time for that to change though.
 

Doro

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Kennedy is one that could really benefit by putting in some extra time with Diesel in the pre season to work on his positioning and how to use his bulk better in the contest, no reason why he couldn’t develop into the help that Cripps needs.
I think his blocking and tackling are fine, just doesn't have the time with the ball to overcome his leg speed deficiency at this level. His marking and kicking for goal are what might help him hold a spot in the 22.
 

Jeremias

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I haven't seen a single match played by TDK that has left me saying "that's a full time ruck."

Literally not a single game, not even a single quarter. Do people really believe that he was being held back from the position that much?
Jim, the kid is 203cm and won't turn 21 until mid way through next year.

He has been on the list for two years now and has missed a fair chunk of footy through injury. Not sure he'd have even featured in 25 games over the two seasons.

Given for most of that time he's had to compete with both Lobbe and Phillips for time in the ruck, it shouldn't be overly surprising that (a) he hasn't spent a heap of time in the ruck, or (b) that he hasn't stood out in that position.

So yeah, given the circumstances I'd absolutely say he has been held back from the position to this point in his career.

With one less ruck on the list in 2020 - at least, one less experienced ruck - hopefully that will change in 2020. Expect to see him spend a fair bit more time in the ruck next year.
 

FRUMPY

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Jim, the kid is 203cm and won't turn 21 until mid way through next year.

He has been on the list for two years now and has missed a fair chunk of footy through injury. Not sure he'd have even featured in 25 games over the two seasons.

Given for most of that time he's had to compete with both Lobbe and Phillips for time in the ruck, it shouldn't be overly surprising that (a) he hasn't spent a heap of time in the ruck, or (b) that he hasn't stood out in that position.

So yeah, given the circumstances I'd absolutely say he has been held back from the position to this point in his career.

With one less ruck on the list in 2020 - at least, one less experienced ruck - hopefully that will change in 2020. Expect to see him spend a fair bit more time in the ruck next year.
Wasn't going to play much ruck after getting his injury - just needed to get games into him without the bashing of a ruckman
 

Arr0w

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I haven't seen a single match played by TDK that has left me saying "that's a full time ruck."

Literally not a single game, not even a single quarter. Do people really believe that he was being held back from the position that much?
He will predominantly play as a ruckman
 

Jeremias

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Wasn't going to play much ruck after getting his injury - just needed to get games into him without the bashing of a ruckman
The injury would not have helped his cause. Being an under-developed tall with two experienced rucks alongside wouldn't have helped either.

That doesn't tell us anything about where we see him featuring long-term, but an emphatic answer from the list manager certainly does.
 

FRUMPY

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The injury would not have helped his cause. Being an under-developed tall with two experienced rucks alongside wouldn't have helped either.

That doesn't tell us anything about where we see him featuring long-term, but an emphatic answer from the list manager certainly does.
Just want to see him play 8+ games next year at AFL level (and deserve the 8+ games on performance)
 

Jeremias

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Just want to see him play 8+ games next year at AFL level (and deserve the 8+ games on performance)
I am not too fussed about the number of senior games he plays in 2020. He is still a kid and is behind Kreuzer and Pittonet.

Above all else I want him to remain fit and healthy throughout the year. If he can play most games and feature heavily in the ruck in those games, I will be very happy.
 

Matty411

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If Gray is going to Sydney as reported in that DFA article on afl.com.au... I wonder if we would go down the Menzel path.

I know the last Menzel we had didn't end up well, but if Dan is fit... could we?! Is he worth the 1 year contract? I suppose he could bond with Doc at least...
 

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