Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

tarczonandjane

Team Captain
Oct 3, 2015
478
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Dow just came off his second season. Of all our recent draftees, I reckon the only ones who had a good second season were Charlie and Fisher. Weitering’s second season was so inglorious that his thread became dedicated to his onfield facial expressions (sook was the constant word). JSOS was consigned by many posters to the dustbin of history. Harry was written off completely (despite almost not having a first season). Cuningham couldn’t find the ball, and was only selected because he played school footy with JSOS.

On those benchmarks, Dow had a better second season that any of them.
 

BigBreakfast

Team Captain
Sep 19, 2019
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Left footer count stands at.....Ten (10).
What about the Sam count?
Then again, only important count now is that in the win column. I am tipping 9 - 12 wins and knocking on the door to finals.
awe have sucked in the first handful of rounds in recent history, crucial we turn that around if we are going to contend for finals. Don’t want to play from behind the eight ball in the second half of the year.
 

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Coona Blues

Director of Coaching
Nov 3, 2011
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Gonna be a very interesting team selection come round 1. So many spots that could be filled by multiple players. Going to be stiff for some players.
Absolutely. I have thirty players who would not surprise if they were named round one. Three or four others that could elevate, or be in the mix if injury
intervenes (Pittonet)
 

murphster

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Oct 2, 2005
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I have been looking at Martins career averages to try and get a gauge on where he’s at in a development sense, now when I compare him against SPS and Fish they are pretty close in terms of most statistics and I think this gives us a pretty good gauge of where his development is at, and shows us the relative under development of a GC player, and how much growth Jack has in him once he is in a more professional high performance environment.

So if we say he is the equivalent of a fourth year player next year, rather than the seven year player he really is, it gives us a better understanding of the expectations we ourselves will place on him as a player, and I think if he out performs SPS and Fish all good and well that’s fantastic but if however he only performs on par with them then I think we can more easily understand the reasons for this, which in part is due to his lack of quality high performance development at the GC Suns and also maybe a lack of inspiration to develop on his part due to the poor environment.
 

Jimmae

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Nov 4, 2003
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I have Martin and Gibbons in outs LOB and Willo. C’mon Jim, Martin on $1 mill p.a. surely gets a gig in Rd1..

Willo will force his way in eventually after getting some continuity at the NB’s.

Whatever, will be disappointing if this squad can’t make the 8 this year, some serious talent on the park
If we're letting contract numbers (especially front-loaded ones) pick selections, we might as well pack up the club now.

I'd want him to get a lot fitter this pre-season before I drop him into the 22. Maybe it'll happen quickly, but maybe he'll be playing VFL for a month before he gets a gig. You're also pushing someone like Fisher, Simpson, SPS, Betts or O'Brien from the team to make that happen.

Reckon he began to establish himself through the back half of the season. No longer a question mark for mine, just how high the ceiling is.
All I'm saying is he seems a little more vulnerable than other names (subject to fitness).

Wow Jimmie,
Doc hasn’t played in 2 years, Willo much the same, Cunningham gets injured just thinking about playing,
Martin and Stocker in the VFL...
I guess I understand your theory though


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Your thoughts on Martin I understand, and I was careful with the opening words, but I'd like to see who you're taking out to be able to select Stocker.

New rookies and JM not there mate
Use the link in my signature, I suspect you've bookmarked a host I'm no longer using.
 
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Pafloyul

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Oct 6, 2004
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Make no mistake, we'll soon be wanting more talls and decent sized flankers (unless next year is all small forwards, once more) before we know it, that's because nothing is static. I don't even think we can fit all our midfielders into the one side. The depth of our talls is Goddard and Ben Silvagni, both backmen; the first is more of a fall back than anything else and the latter still very much an unknown quantity. If Charlie and McKay are both injured, it's a bit ugly.
 

Earls Smother

Rookie
Oct 4, 2019
31
97
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Carlton
Gonna be a very interesting team selection come round 1. So many spots that could be filled by multiple players. Going to be stiff for some players.
Agreed. Impossible to guess the exact 22 now.
Things will change in our general philosophy I think. People have banged on about our age profile in recent years (too young). We are not going to bring blokes like Martin and Newnes into the club to fix that, and then not pick them. 50/50 decisions will go the way of the player who most helps us win on that day (as opposed to youth development) - which early in the season will see some of our promising youth in the 2's.
The speed of the game in the early rounds (Judd commented on this - before niggles etc. slow things down) might see someone who is nominally "best 22" not there until rounds 5 or 6. JSOS may well fit this category.
The good thing is we now have options. We will not have to panic and play Marchy, Harry, Charlie etc. if there are fitter blokes ready to go.
 

shagger

Team Captain
Jan 8, 2004
552
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Dow finished the season as a 19 year old. He's shown more than enough glimpses that he could be an extremely competent AFL midfielder. Consider Brodie Kemp probably won't play an AFL or VFL game until he is 19. We're too keen to throw youngsters on the scrap heap.
Yes his kicking can be wayward but his technique is actually quite good. Another season in the system and the opportunity to adapt to the pressure, scrutiny and pace of the game could make all the difference.
 

Earls Smother

Rookie
Oct 4, 2019
31
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Carlton
Make no mistake, we'll soon be wanting more talls and decent sized flankers (unless next year is all small forwards, once more) before we know it, that's because nothing is static. I don't even think we can fit all our midfielders into the one side. The depth of our talls is Goddard and Ben Silvagni, both backmen; the first is more of a fall back than anything else and the latter still very much an unknown quantity. If Charlie and McKay are both injured, it's a bit ugly.
We are ok in this regard.
HF: Martin Casboult Cuningham
FF: Betts Gov TDK/Kennedy/JSOS/Murph depending on whether we want a tall, mid-size, small.
Not the disaster it might have been in recent years.
 

Mr_Plow

That name again...
May 18, 2008
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Make no mistake, we'll soon be wanting more talls and decent sized flankers (unless next year is all small forwards, once more) before we know it, that's because nothing is static. I don't even think we can fit all our midfielders into the one side. The depth of our talls is Goddard and Ben Silvagni, both backmen; the first is more of a fall back than anything else and the latter still very much an unknown quantity. If Charlie and McKay are both injured, it's a bit ugly.
Would think that it is a bit ugly if any team loses their top 2 KPFs.

We actually have incredible depth in that position, not many clubs have players of the calibre of Casboult and McGovern to roll out in the event of an emergency.
 

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Coona Blues

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Make no mistake, we'll soon be wanting more talls and decent sized flankers (unless next year is all small forwards, once more) before we know it, that's because nothing is static. I don't even think we can fit all our midfielders into the one side. The depth of our talls is Goddard and Ben Silvagni, both backmen; the first is more of a fall back than anything else and the latter still very much an unknown quantity. If Charlie and McKay are both injured, it's a bit ugly.
"Make no mistake.....our depth of talls…"

Our depth of talls in defence Jones (29 by 1/3/'20 contracted 3 years), Casboult (29), Goddard (23 rookie), Marchbank (23), Weitering (22), Macreadie (21),
Ben Silvagni (19) plus Kemp (18), Plowman (25), Jack Silvagni (22) and McGovern (25) as 3rd tall options. Granted Macreadie has disappointed, largely due to his injury issues, and needs a massive 2020.

Goddard is not rated by many, but is dominant in the VFL and a young leader. We have the wonderful option of having as a rookie for another two years. His body is still improving from significant injury (think of D.Thomas progression after ankle). Without improving he is a good fall back option if multiple injuries hit, while being a cornerstone of our VFL team, allowing BSOS and Macreadie time to mature and develop. My Blue tinted glasses have him an improving player, putting pressure on for a top team spot. His agility may remain an issue at the higher level, but we have time to find out about him and the youngsters. For the record.

I have very high hopes for young Ben, more athleticism and pace than his "big" brother, it will be interesting which end of the ground he ends up settling at, but it would seem there will be more opportunity in defence as Jones and Casboult move in to their thirties.

The rucks have Matt Kreuzer still leading the way, despite injury concerns and now being on the wrong side of 30. Realistically has another year or two, at the outside three to play. I share the high hopes for TDK as a developing ruck/forward. Out of the shadow of Phillips and Lobbe and guaranteed a decent share of ruck minutes with Pittonet in 2020 to continue his development. His "star" may rise very quickly if opportunity presents through injury to our key forwards to allow him progression as a forward/ruck support for MK (or Pittonet). Pittonet is a very capable developing ruckman, and may be somewhat undersold by supporters, I am sure he sees himself as a genuine chance for the no. 1 spot, and will be given ample opportunity to state his case. Levi, of course remains as a second ruck option and "break glass" back up if injury hits hard. I am almost certain we will try to draft Henry Walsh (or perhaps unheralded Josh Cripps will stake a claim) next season.

Injury aside, opportunities in our forward line will be pretty scarce for a decade. Charlie (22), Harry (22) and McGovern (25) will be very hard to displace when fit. Levi has plenty of credentials for a spot at 29, with his ability to play at both ends and in the ruck, now likely to keep him on the list for the foreseeable future. TDK (20) is being groomed as more ruck than forward, but certainly likely to hold down a key spot or forward/ruck spot if required. Kemp (18) from 2021 is likely to be in the mould of Charlie if utilised forward. We have BSOS as a possible candidate for a key forward spot if the opportunity arises. JSOS (22) is a 3rd tall option, with Crippa (24) being dangerous drifting/resting forward, even Kennedy (22) offers a smaller marking option.

This coming season will be a pivotal one for many of the bigger boys BSOS will need to consolidate, continue his development, and perhaps lock in to a position. Macreadie can no longer survive on potential, perform or perish methinks, we have too many other options if he has another sub par or injury affected year. Even Marchbank needs some continuity or may come under scrutiny. We also need to ascertain if he is a KPP option of settles as that 3rd tall interceptor. I like Goddard more than most, and see him at least playing out his three years as a rookie back up/VFL pillar, I have hope that his mobility may improve to make him a genuine AFL option.

The time for potentially trading Levi has passed, both the club and more importantly him have committed, he is, at worst, three tiered back up for three years or so. Single year contracts are a little harsh for such a great servant, but it allows us to manage the $'s depending on his tenure in the top team. Kreuze is year to year, even week to week. The addition of a mature option like Pittonet, at 23 either gives us a genuine first ruck candidate for 8-10 years or a bankable back up to the developing TDK as MK potentially enters his twilight. The development of the two young rucks will surely play a part in decisions over how long Kreuzer continues to play. I see next draft period as the perfect time to bring in a project ruck, and Henry Walsh has the profile, the genes and the added security angle to lock his brother in. Fair to say, we should have more confirmation whether or not TDK is indeed a ruckman first by the end of 2020.

I am not sure how Tom Silvagni is developing, but fair to say if he is similar to his brothers should earn a spot on the list for 2021, offering another tall option. I prefer not to judge on scuttlebutt and innuendo, plenty were offering negatives on Ben, and he is developing just fine. There are a couple of other father/son options who may come under consideration next year, so we may look at one "top end" talent trade and/or draft and fill up on "relatives" thereafter. Likely that Papley will again enter discussions, and we may target GWS free agents or kids slipping out the "back door". We went a little speculative in the draft this year, I firmly believe we will be very target oriented next time around.
 

Dravid's in

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Absolutely. I have thirty players who would not surprise if they were named round one. Three or four others that could elevate, or be in the mix if injury
intervenes (Pittonet)
I have 30 as well.

Forget the positions, and last few names, but wouldn't be shocked to see any in Round 1.

Marchbank Jones Simpson
Plowman Weitering Docherty
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin Curnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Kreuzer Murphy E.Curnow

I/C SPS, Newnes, Fisher, Newman, JSOS, Kennedy, Dow, Williamson, Casboult, OBrien, Gibbons, Stocker

Then a next group is the 31-40.

Pittonet, TDK, Lang, Goddard, Cottrell, Polson, Owies, Macreadie, Finbar, BSOS

And then the 5 new draftees.

Kemp, Philp, Ramsey, Phillips, Honey
 

DirkDiggler

Team Captain
Feb 28, 2008
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I have 30 as well.

Forget the positions, and last few names, but wouldn't be shocked to see any in Round 1.

Marchbank Jones Simpson
Plowman Weitering Docherty
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin Curnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Kreuzer Murphy E.Curnow

I/C SPS, Newnes, Fisher, Newman, JSOS, Kennedy, Dow, Williamson, Casboult, OBrien, Gibbons, Stocker

Then a next group is the 31-40.

Pittonet, TDK, Lang, Goddard, Cottrell, Polson, Owies, Macreadie, Finbar, BSOS

And then the 5 new draftees.

Kemp, Philp, Ramsey, Phillips, Honey
Your preferred backline looks both slow and ineffective by foot. Opposition small forwards would a field day with mismatch. Apart from Docherty and Weits the others in my opinion cannot effectively rebound. We need to tidy up defensive turnovers as a matter of priority
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
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I have 30 as well.

Forget the positions, and last few names, but wouldn't be shocked to see any in Round 1.

Marchbank Jones Simpson
Plowman Weitering Docherty
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin Curnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Kreuzer Murphy E.Curnow

I/C SPS, Newnes, Fisher, Newman, JSOS, Kennedy, Dow, Williamson, Casboult, OBrien, Gibbons, Stocker

Then a next group is the 31-40.

Pittonet, TDK, Lang, Goddard, Cottrell, Polson, Owies, Macreadie, Finbar, BSOS

And then the 5 new draftees.

Kemp, Philp, Ramsey, Phillips, Honey
Reckon Samo is more locked into the back 6 than Simmo, but that's the back 7 picked.
 

Accidental genius

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2018
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Dow finished the season as a 19 year old. He's shown more than enough glimpses that he could be an extremely competent AFL midfielder. Consider Brodie Kemp probably won't play an AFL or VFL game until he is 19. We're too keen to throw youngsters on the scrap heap.
Yes his kicking can be wayward but his technique is actually quite good. Another season in the system and the opportunity to adapt to the pressure, scrutiny and pace of the game could make all the difference.
He just needs to take a bit more time to decide and follow through with his disposals. To me that’s half his problem. Maybe when he develops a bit more strength and bulks up he will be more confident to hang on that split second longer.

I have no doubt he will be a champion.
 

Doro

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He just needs to take a bit more time to decide and follow through with his disposals. To me that’s half his problem. Maybe when he develops a bit more strength and bulks up he will be more confident to hang on that split second longer.

I have no doubt he will be a champion.
Dow's biggest issue currently would be what I would classify as 'situational anxiety'. Thinking and worrying about it all a bit too much- the kicking issues are all related to this. Probably needs to stop analysing everything and just go out and have fun. He's got plenty of ability to work with.
 

windows1

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Sep 8, 2018
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In my long life I can’t recall being ‘interested’ in SO many players. It’s a lot easier for me to list who I won’t bother with than who I will. And I’m not focusing on them not out of disdain but rather just don’t have the bandwidth!

Lang
Polson
Finbar
Goddard

Maybe Macreadie is close to that group.

Even the oldies interest me. How are Kreuzer, Simmo and Murph hanging on? What’s this Newnes like? Is Casboult as fit as he was last year? Is Cripps moving better with the reduced weight?

Like it’s an incredible list now. So much depth and talent. Flexibility. Points of summer intrigue:

- will Setters lock down a Central on ball role?
- is Kennedy going to force out someone on the half forward line?
- has LOB strengthened up his body enough to make it a real contest for wing with Newnes?
- are Philp and Ramsay fit enough to push for games?
- is Stocker genuinely in the mix now?
- is Cunners back to full fitness?
- can MCG hold his own in runs?
- is Dow fit and strong enough now?
- did SPS and SOs step it up again? Fitness wise?
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
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I have 30 as well.

Forget the positions, and last few names, but wouldn't be shocked to see any in Round 1.

Marchbank Jones Simpson
Plowman Weitering Docherty
Walsh Cripps Setterfield
Martin Curnow Cuningham
Betts McKay McGovern
Kreuzer Murphy E.Curnow

I/C SPS, Newnes, Fisher, Newman, JSOS, Kennedy, Dow, Williamson, Casboult, OBrien, Gibbons, Stocker

Then a next group is the 31-40.

Pittonet, TDK, Lang, Goddard, Cottrell, Polson, Owies, Macreadie, Finbar, BSOS

And then the 5 new draftees.

Kemp, Philp, Ramsey, Phillips, Honey
Im of the opinion if he is still in the 22 for round 1 then Teague isn't making the decisions he should be making now.
 

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