Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

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DangerousD

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Looking at West Coast today and their Premiership winning side last year, i see a very even side across the whole ground, they have some really good players but not many star players, which many here seem to be obsessed over when targeting players for trade. Out of curiosity do West Coast have player in the top 15-20 in the comp?

Im not sure if its because they are from WA and don't get a lot of exposure and credit here or if its a delimitate approach to have solid players in as many positions as possible but i think they are a good reference when talking about trading, we don't need 10 star players, just good players in the right positions.
 

jonesyy12

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Looking at West Coast today and their Premiership winning side last year, i see a very even side across the whole ground, they have some really good players but not many star players, which many here seem to be obsessed over when targeting players for trade. Out of curiosity do West Coast have player in the top 15-20 in the comp?

Im not sure if its because they are from WA and don't get a lot of exposure and credit here or if its a delimitate approach to have solid players in as many positions as possible but i think they are a good reference when talking about trading, we don't need 10 star players, just good players in the right positions.
uhhh.. Gaff, McGovern not top 20 players??
 

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DangerousD

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uhhh.. Gaff, McGovern not top 20 players??
Depends how you rate players and positions. Gov is a beast of an intercept defender but i wouldn't put him in the top 20 players in the comp. Where do you rank them?

My point was mainly that they have a few stars as you would say but generally they are just a very even team.

FYI

Gaff didn't play in the GF
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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I'm sorry everyone, but I cannot abide Schumacher and Goddard getting contracts for next year. I'm not going to put today's result on them, but they are not even good depth for an AFL team, let alone prospects with significant upside.

Schumacher has almost zero physicality to his game, and Goddard has even less speed, and it hurts their ability to provide defensive cover for the team. Long kicks, but not enough of a consistent combination of zip and precision. Between the two of them, it honestly looks like Schumacher sneaks Goddard his card for the weights room, so no one tracking the logs realises he's never set foot in the place.

Lang and Garlett aren't doing themselves massive favours either, but at least they have the raw athletic tools to work with.

We probably need to clear out 3 of them along with Fasolo, Le Bois and Kerr, then get one of Polson and O'Dwyer onto the rookie list. That opens up some exciting opportunities for us through the draft and free agency periods.

EDIT: I've left out Phillips and Lobbe, who are arguably a foregone conclusion.
Pickett Garlett Lang Lobbe Fasolo Kerr Phillips Lebois gone, Polson contracted but should be moved on imo
Schumaker and O'Dwyer safe for now Goddard atm looks a VFL player at best probably stays from strong NB's season
Simpson and Thomas are a lock to go on one more ...
 

Jeremias

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I wouldn't put them in the top 15

Either way, i was more highlighting the fact they are a very even side across the ground and when we talk about trades that we don't just need stars and A graders
Reckon both would certainly be top 20.

More relevant I would have thought, is where the players rate, relative to others in their position.

Gaff is probably the best wing in the game, and Gov the best intercept defender. There would be a few more up there too.

But you are right, there is more to this game than just having star power, though that does help. West Coast are as mature and well drilled a side as there is, hence their win last year, and why it is hard to see them not going deep again in 2019.

Edit: Forgot about Yeo who would be up there also. Shuey excellent as well but I don't consider him elite.
 

DangerousD

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Pickett Garlett Lang Lobbe Fasolo Kerr Phillips Lebois gone, Polson contracted but should be moved on imo
Schumaker and O'Dwyer safe for now Goddard atm looks a VFL player at best probably stays from strong NB's season
Simpson and Thomas are a lock to go on one more ...
Thats 8 before you add Polson so i doubt we will cut that deep. As we don't have a 2nd round pick or a 4th? I doubt we cut 8 either, obviously will depend on trades.

But i won't be losing any sleep losing anyone on your list
 

DangerousD

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Reckon both would certainly be top 20.

More relevant I would have thought, is where the players rate, relative to others in their position.

Gaff is probably the best wing in the game, and Gov the best intercept defender. There would be a few more up there too.

But you are right, there is more to this game than just having star power, though that does help. West Coast are as mature and well drilled a side as there is, hence their win last year, and why it is hard to see them not going deep again in 2019.

Edit: Forgot about Yeo who would be up there also. Shuey excellent as well but I don't consider him elite.
According to AFL rankings Yeo is 15th and Schuey 21. But you're right in his position Gov is top notch and they won it without Gaff and Nic Nat last year which shows great depth.

I think we sometimes get caught up in what makes a great side and what will get us to our next premiership and it doesn't need to be elite players but just good players who do their jobs.
 

Opine

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Pickett Garlett Lang Lobbe Fasolo Kerr Phillips Lebois gone, Polson contracted but should be moved on imo
Schumaker and O'Dwyer safe for now Goddard atm looks a VFL player at best probably stays from strong NB's season
Simpson and Thomas are a lock to go on one more ...
Phillips? Has been excellent in both of the last 2 games. No way will he be dropped.
I also doubt Lang will be dropped; nor should he imo.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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Thats 8 before you add Polson so i doubt we will cut that deep. As we don't have a 2nd round pick or a 4th? I doubt we cut 8 either, obviously will depend on trades.

But i won't be losing any sleep losing anyone on your list
Lebois is the rookie so that's 7 senior list spots, I'd be upgrading Gibbons so then it's all up to SOS and the boys through the trade period of what they get done, who knows what they can get done? and also any free agents we hopefully can get in "COGS" 🤤 Hopefully we can keep Casboult too... yeah maybe 6/7 changes ...
 

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Stamos

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Pickett is already gone, replaced by DeLuca. Won’t be counted in the coming list changes.

I think it will be 6-7, depending on who we can trade in.
 

DangerousD

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Pickett is already gone, replaced by DeLuca. Won’t be counted in the coming list changes.

I think it will be 6-7, depending on who we can trade in.
Has Deluca definitely got a senior spot? Or is he a rookie? Strange if Gibbons needs upgrading but Deluca doesn't. Did Deluca get 2 years?
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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Phillips? Has been excellent in both of the last 2 games. No way will he be dropped.
I also doubt Lang will be dropped; nor should he imo.
Phillips has been ok last 2weeks but if we can't find another couple of ruck upgrades for Lobbe and him at the end of the year he'll get another season.
Lang imo is not much chop there would be much better players who we could get into the club for a player of his limitations he certainly should be giving it more of a red hot crack than he does...
 

agro

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Pickett Garlett Lang Lobbe Fasolo Kerr Phillips Lebois gone, Polson contracted but should be moved on imo
Schumaker and O'Dwyer safe for now Goddard atm looks a VFL player at best probably stays from strong NB's season
Simpson and Thomas are a lock to go on one more ...

The Polson two year contract goes right up there with the doozies of giving Marcus Davies and Aaron Joseph two year deals.

:rolleyes:
 

Blueboys11

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No idea on his contract status, but Shumachers game today ranks as one of the worst debut games ive ever seen. Staggered if he is sighted again this season, and even more staggered if he is anywhere near an AFL list next year
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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The Polson two year contract goes right up there with the doozies of giving Marcus Davies and Aaron Joseph two year deals.

:rolleyes:
Honestly i always knew they were playing him out of position as a small pressure forward in the seniors, just hasn't got any forward nous to play the position at all, but thought he looked good early days in the VFL onball so had the impression he would be developed back at the NB's in that position, but his game has unfortunately gone backwards..
 

Jimmae

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Try to avoid hot takes on first gamers...Simmo rule.
Check out the footage of Simmo as a junior, and tell me you cannot see he was going to be a decent player. You cannot say the same thing for Schumacher's tape. The only way I see it working out for him is if he puts on 5 kilos in the next pre-season and transforms into a solid inside midfielder, but I would still put him on the rookie list at best.

Pickett Garlett Lang Lobbe Fasolo Kerr Phillips Lebois gone, Polson contracted but should be moved on imo
Schumaker and O'Dwyer safe for now Goddard atm looks a VFL player at best probably stays from strong NB's season
Simpson and Thomas are a lock to go on one more ...
Pickett was replaced by Deluca.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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Check out the footage of Simmo as a junior, and tell me you cannot see he was going to be a decent player. You cannot say the same thing for Schumacher's tape. The only way I see it working out for him is if he puts on 5 kilos in the next pre-season and transforms into a solid inside midfielder, but I would still put him on the rookie list at best.


Pickett was replaced by Deluca.
We still determine whether he goes onto the senior list at the seasons end or rookied don't we?
 

Jeremias

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According to AFL rankings Yeo is 15th and Schuey 21. But you're right in his position Gov is top notch and they won it without Gaff and Nic Nat last year which shows great depth.

I think we sometimes get caught up in what makes a great side and what will get us to our next premiership and it doesn't need to be elite players but just good players who do their jobs.
It all comes back to the age old consideration - a champion team vs a team of champions.

Premiership sides are generally those who get everything working best in that particular year, not who has the most talented list.

There is a reason why Richmond, West Coast, Bulldogs have all won flags in recent seasons, whilst GWS has consistently fallen short.

Elite talent is always welcome - we are obviously keen on Coniglio and rightly so - but you cannot afford to just look at the top end of your list, you must also constantly look to raise the floor and improve the bottom end.

And it is for that exact reason why I see value in so many players who may become available at the end of the year, for various reasons.

It just comes down to price.
 

therubbernub

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Yes but 4 of them are ruck type players that generally come on later and play til their older . Also two-three of them are depth players and not best 22 <i would be much more concerned if they were core best 22 running players
 
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