Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

dangerousdane

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Aug 16, 2015
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Could we be speculating about the wrong Gray/Grey from Port?

Robbie is a FA and is still a very good player, he would be very good in Blue for 2 years.
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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I get the feeling we will chance on ballers harder than small forwards, given our deficiencies

Who is to say a guy like Fisher, can't be a dangerous small forward, Cuners as well.

I don't have the same view as most, that small forwards are the priority
I just don’t understand this thinking. Why play a mid forward when you can play a forward forward. Imo most good small forwards are handy pinch hitting midfields anyway. If someone is going to play a majority forward than draft a forward.
 

HARKER

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I get the feeling we will chance on ballers harder than small forwards, given our deficiencies

Who is to say a guy like Fisher, can't be a dangerous small forward, Cuners as well.

I don't have the same view as most, that small forwards are the priority
The only reason I say small forwards, is to differentiate them from those that are ~192+

Maybe the better term is goal-kickers, whether they be 175 or 185. It doesn't matter if they know how to manufacture goals regularly and complement the trio of talls we're banking on taking us forward (McKay, CCurnow & McGovern)

I like the idea of Cuningham being involved in that mix because he has tricks, can take a mark, leads well and applies pressure - And can kick a goal.

I put this forward the other day given the connections we have with said players:
Cuningham CCurnow Martin
Papley McKay McGovern..........I just like the mix of attributes amongst this collective. It looks on paper as though it could create havoc.

What I don't want to see again though, is another 'creative' re-invention of the likes of this years one, in: ECurnow, Polson and Gibbons.
That's about as dead end as you can get. It was in February.
 

BluStreak

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There can be only 1
would have liked to see Daisy in the forward line more this season as I believe he has the tricks to manufacture goals.
He tries different things, knows where to get the ball and causes the opposition to second guess.

one example was his hand ball through legs to Dow (?) for a goal. It was a split sec opportunity that he took.
 

Arr0w

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The only reason I say small forwards, is to differentiate them from those that are ~192+

Maybe the better term is goal-kickers, whether they be 175 or 185. It doesn't matter if they know how to manufacture goals regularly and complement the trio of talls we're banking on taking us forward (McKay, CCurnow & McGovern)

I like the idea of Cuningham being involved in that mix because he has tricks, can take a mark, leads well and applies pressure - And can kick a goal.

I put this forward the other day given the connections we have with said players:
Cuningham CCurnow Martin
Papley McKay McGovern..........I just like the mix of attributes amongst this collective. It looks on paper as though it could create havoc.

What I don't want to see again though, is another 'creative' re-invention of the likes of this years one, in: ECurnow, Polson and Gibbons.
That's about as dead end as you can get. It was in February.
Recently, we have shown that we can kick big scores when we at least break even with forward 50 entries. Once inside 50, our conversion rate is high

Forgetting the names that are being circulated, if we could only add one quality mid or forward, I would target the mid.

Easier and more effective to push the likes of a Fisher etc foward, than push a 2nd string mid playing forward into the guts.
 

Iamcarlton

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Oct 11, 2015
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Cameron has Walters and Betts covered, in the now and moving forward

DeGoey I wouldn't really classify as a pure small forward

You have also strengthened my original post of not overpaying for a pure small forward, with both Ealters and Betts being much later picks
We've been going down the path of not overpaying for small forwards for years now and here we are with that area being the weakest on the list .
Clearly we aren't good at identifying and/or developing these players from later picks .
Time to get serious about this part of our list .
 

Iamcarlton

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I just don’t understand this thinking. Why play a mid forward when you can play a forward forward. Imo most good small forwards are handy pinch hitting midfields anyway. If someone is going to play a majority forward than draft a forward.
Because we have been generally crap at developing genuine small forwards of our own of late so imo the list management team are taking the safer option of selecting a mid to play forward so if he fails or is not quite up to scratch as a small forward can be used as a mid .

(Gibbons and Deluca)
 

HARKER

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Recently, we have shown that we can kick big scores when we at least break even with forward 50 entries. Once inside 50, our conversion rate is high
Forgetting the names that are being circulated, if we could only add one quality mid or forward, I would target the mid.
Easier and more effective to push the likes of a Fisher etc foward, than push a 2nd string mid playing forward into the guts.
Coniglio certainly does know how to manufacture a goal and maybe other mids will learn to do so also, but I just don't like the idea of dropping mids into holes, just because you have to find a home for them somewhere.

It can work and I'd sooner have ball-hunters (mids) and turn them into something else as opposed to the old, 'We'll make this HBF'er into a mid' idea, but in general I side with a 'horse for courses' outlook.....and there are many reasons for that, including TPP, which I'd gone into more detail previously.

In regards to your second sentence - It all depends and there may be many reasons for that being the case.
e.g. Coniglio or Papley? Which player would add more to the whole? Which could be of more value to the club for TPP reasons? Too hard.

Let's though say we get Coniglio and miss on Papley. What does that do to the way we utilise the mids we have?
Not going to try and play it out now and even so, it would clearly be subjective but would make for a reasonable discussion.
 

djholmes

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Ins for 2020: Coniglio (free agent), B. Hill (exchange for our 2019 1st Round Pick), S. Hill (free agent), Puopolo (free agent), T. Goldstein (free agent)

Outs for 2020: Lang, Lobbe, Polson, Fasolo, Phillips

Team for next season:

B: Plowman------------------Jones-----------------Williamson

H: Docherty----------------Weitering---------------Newman

C: *B.Hill--------------------Cripps-----------------O'Brien

H: Cuningham-------------McGovern---------------*S.Hill

F: *Puopolo---------------C.Curnow----------------McKay

Foll: Kreuzer, *Coniglio, Walsh

Bench: Marchbank, E.Curnow, Murphy, Setterfield

Emerg: *T. Goldstein, Goddard, Simpson, Thomas, Stocker, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Gibbons, Deluca, Kennedy, Silvagni, Garlett, Casboult, De Koning
 

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Aphrodite

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Michael Walters, Jordan DeGoey & Eddie Betts are still well in the conversation.



Carlton and Eddie Betts have shut down speculation of a potential homecoming for the ageing small forward.

Despite talks Betts, 32, is on the outer at Adelaide, the Blues will not be entertaining a play for their former goal sneak, who said rumours of his departure were "completely untrue".
“I'm contracted to the Adelaide Football Club and I'll be playing footy for the Adelaide Crows."
 

Aphrodite

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Ins for 2020: Coniglio (free agent), B. Hill (exchange for our 2019 1st Round Pick), S. Hill (free agent), Puopolo (free agent), T. Goldstein (free agent)

Outs for 2020: Lang, Lobbe, Polson, Fasolo, Phillips

Team for next season:

B: Plowman------------------Jones-----------------Williamson

H: Docherty----------------Weitering---------------Newman

C: *B.Hill--------------------Cripps-----------------O'Brien

H: Cuningham-------------McGovern---------------*S.Hill

F: *Puopolo---------------C.Curnow----------------McKay

Foll: Kreuzer, *Coniglio, Walsh

Bench: Marchbank, E.Curnow, Murphy, Setterfield

Emerg: *T. Goldstein, Goddard, Simpson, Thomas, Stocker, Dow, SPS, Fisher, Gibbons, Deluca, Kennedy, Silvagni, Garlett, Casboult, De Koning


WHAT! o_O
 

HalAlaric

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Coming to a close so thought I'd pop my two bob into how I see us going forward. All of below is based squarely off rumours, us being linked with certain players, and my own personal opinion.

DE LIST / RETIREES
D.THOMAS – M.LOBBE – A.FASOLO – T.BUGG – D.LANG – J.PICKETT

C.POLSON, J.GARLETT, & K.LEBOIS have a reprieve to find their footing next year although potentially all 3 could be added.

TRADES
CONIGLIO (RFA)
CARLTON #10-12 (ADELAIDE) + FUTURE 3RD ROUND to SYDNEY for T.PAPLEY & D.CAMERON

PICKS - (all picks are an approximate on where sides finish)
#38 // #47 (ADL) // #63 (GWS) // #83 (ADL)

After all this it's clear to see on paper we will be making great strides next year to play finals. Although I am biased I actually rate the team on a whole as one of the top 6 in the league and love the depth that we have been able to build on over the last 4 years. Yes, coaching strategy and player development will play a huge part in furthering my thoughts but the nucleus is there.

Carlton Blues (possible best 22)
FB: N.NEWMAN – J.WEITERING – L.PLOWMAN
HB: S.PETREVSKI-SETON – C.MARCHBANK – S.DOCHERTY
M: S.WALSH – P.CRIPPS – D.CUNINGHAM
F: M.KREUZER – S. CONIGLIO – E.CURNOW
HF: M.MURPHY – C.CURNOW – Z.FISHER
FF: M.MCGOVERN – H.MCKAY – T.PAPLEY
INT: W.SETTERFIELD – J.SILVAGNI – L.JONES – K.SIMPSON

Northern Blues
FB: A.SCHUMACHER – L.CASBOULT – H.MACREADIE
HB: M.COTTRELL – H.GODDARD – T.WILLIAMSON
M: L.STOCKER – M.KENNEDY – L.OBRIEN
F: D.CAMERON – P.DOW – J.DELUCA
HF: M.GIBBONS – A.PHILLIPS – K.LEBOIS
FF: P.KERR – T.DE KONING – M.OWIES
INT: B.SILVAGNI – F.O’DWYER – C.POLSON

Even if we fail to snare any of the above trade hypothetical it's obvious to see we are on the up with an extremely talented list. Would love to hear some supporters thoughts on our structures and possible rotations between forwards, mids and backs.

Sorry for the long winded post
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Because we have been generally crap at developing genuine small forwards of our own of late so imo the list management team are taking the safer option of selecting a mid to play forward so if he fails or is not quite up to scratch as a small forward can be used as a mid .

(Gibbons and Deluca)
Seems crazy imo and looking at nearly all the last 6 premieres their small forwards are traditional small forwards. Even De Goey and Stephenson were forwards before mids
 

Arr0w

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We've been going down the path of not overpaying for small forwards for years now and here we are with that area being the weakest on the list .
Clearly we aren't good at identifying and/or developing these players from later picks .
Time to get serious about this part of our list .
I don't agree it is our weakest, I think the midfield still need attention, which includes a ruckman
 

HARKER

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I don't agree it is our weakest, I think the midfield still need attention, which includes a ruckman
I don't completely agree, but nor would I claim to be right.
A ruckman is an absolute need now, even though Phillips did show more in his senior outings than for his Northern Blues ones.

This is a hard game to play and really makes for little sense, but simply on face value:

Would be better off with a netting of:
1. Coniglio, Ellis & Cameron
2. Papley, Martin & Cameron

Probably not the best offers there, but just as starters. Some can surely do better than me here?
 

Eiffel 65

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So you want to pick swap and get Jack Martin for essentially nothing at all? Interesting proposal.
Downgrade of firsts and maybe something else.

Either that or split say pick 8 for two picks in the late teens/early 20's and trade one of them for Martin.

He's only worth a late first/early second.

His form can't command anything near a top 10 pick, especially given he's out of contract and been dropped to the NEAFL.

As soon as you drop players, it devalues them.
 

Jimmyonesix

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Jun 7, 2019
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If we got cognilio as FA would GWS swap there 1st and there compo pick for Adelaide pick (8or 9) then we trade those two picks for Martin and papley — or would they be to cranky ?????
 

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