Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[smashbox gill]

TDK is going to be an absolute gun. He’s definately more ruck than forward with his aggression/competitiveness/athletic ability. He would almost be wasted up forward.

He will be the new generation type ruckman - think Rowan Marshall from St Kilda

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Petruccelle likes WC, but apparently is homesick

Whether that leads to asking for a trade is unknown

Need more Italians playing at Carlton.

 

[AB_Blue]

Need more Italians playing at Carlton.

Is bloody quick

I wonder if he could be an option if Papley isn’t available ?

Betts to mentor


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[JohnnyFontane90]

From the Port Board yesterday. Pretty much what I've been saying.

I'm not saying sam gray is a superstar or anything but only port supporters opinions from before he looked like leaving should be valid.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

...

TL;DR: The club is in good hands. In SOS/Agresta we trust.

Pfft. Ferris's was better.
Sakc.

 

[Matty411]

Pfft. Ferris's was better.
Sakc.

I said the exact same thing, so agree with you!

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Is bloody quick

I wonder if he could be an option if Papley isn’t available ?

Betts to mentor


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He was one who piqued my interest in his draft year. They should have consulted me.

 

[true blue19]

Don’t think McKay is a priority.

A 200 cm key defender is probably the last thing we need. But if he's cheap enough I probably would trade for him.

 

[Blues_Man]

Yeh, if you want Butler and he nominates Carlton then Richmond will make it happen without too much fuss. Watch the last quarter of the VFL match against Essendon last Saturday if you want to see him at his best. Reports are suggesting the Doggies are leading the chase for Martin. You'll probably have to pay overs to get Papley out of Sydney so I'd be surprised if that one happens. Good luck on your trade targets.

Some of your mates on the Tigers board aren't as welcoming of this news ..I don't think i will venture back into that cesspool too soon

 

[Blue since 72]

Is anyone else concerned about Martin's inconsistency?

Has been this way his whole career. Understand the allure but is it something we're prepared to put up with over a season?

 

[Blues_Man]

Is anyone else concerned about Martin's inconsistency?

Has been this way his whole career. Understand the allure but is it something we're prepared to put up with over a season?

Yes a little ..he hasn't set the world on fire yet..i'm loathe to offer up too much to get him

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Is anyone else concerned about Martin's inconsistency?

Has been this way his whole career. Understand the allure but is it something we're prepared to put up with over a season?

I haven’t followed his career that closely. I’ve seen him do things on a footy field that only the elite can achieve.

Here are his stats. I think you’ll be surprised.

AFL Tables - Jack Martin - Stats - Statistics

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Challenging gbatman's word limit. For those who are interested in some insights, have a quick read below or listen for yourself. Not a whole lot was given away, but another good indictment of the club's direction and good to hear first-hand from a key member of the list management/recruiting team about the draft/process and the way they see Carlton FC in the wider landscape.

Mick Agresta on Road to the Draft

On relationship/role dynamic with SOS and Paul (Brodie):

• Paul responsible for draft/final order along with Dale Harris and Michael Jordan, who focus purely on the draft
• SOS and Mick look after List strategy and TPP (total player payments/salary cap) – with Agresta also looking after Pro scouting
• With List Strategy, they’re looking at 3-5 years with TPP particularly

On splitting time/focus between what’s happening on field (at Carlton) and U18:

• Part of the team that travels around with the Nationals
• Attend key games
• Have weekly sit in on all recruiting meetings, so knows exactly what’s going on
• Lot of time (far too much) on compliance and in front of a spreadsheet

On how he views the Blues season:

• Really tough situation, particularly middle part
• To club’s credit, they’ve been great – especially Teaguey, who’s been unbelievable
• Few other clubs not in finals were limping through to the end of year, while our players/staff didn’t want it to end

On this year’s draft pool:

• Doesn’t have the top-end tall talent, but depth in the draft and talent in most rounds
• The weekend’s game (Nationals) highlighted that
• Comparing this years top to last, the Key position talent isn’t there, but is depth in the rucks and midfield
• NAB league between Gippsland and Oakley – loved the game, couldn’t wait to write report and loved watching kids stand up
• Finals game boosts players prospects when they step up

On Carlton’s draft board:

• Not settled on order, but think we have the pool set
• Number of interviews still to do, psych test etc
• Combine intense with interviews, long days, stressful but good insight into draftees
• Teague involved in it all – are on same page about it and DT wants to get involved but trusts/supports the List Mgmt team

On personal draft philosophy/key characteristics:

• Think it gets back to how competitive they are (not just physical side, can be running or skills)

On Sam Walsh:

• Were always set on Sam, didn’t actively seek trade for #1 but had lot of work to do in trades
• Was our pick a long way out
• Favourite memory was combine interview – only time saw him nervous. Had 3 recruiters, coach, Bolts, Murph in the room
• Coming from Swans, Heeney and Mills were unbelievably prepared first year players, but never seen anything like Sam. From the day he started training, he went 100%, kept getting himself up, adapting, getting better. Just an amazing player.
• Area of growth, will have some downtimes and will have to learn with not always being the best player and dealing with these times

On Stocker trade/2018 Trade Deal:

• Had a number of players rated really highly, including Liam
• Worked out well for both clubs, Adelaide are really happy with top pick as are we
• Really, really happy with Liam’s year. Added string to his bow across half back and helped him
• Think he’d be right up there (in the draft order) against this year’s group

On Ben Silvagni’s year/progress:

• Had a really good year. Finding his feet but towards end of year, went forward and added spark, spunk and confidence. Made real progress.

On Mick Gibbons:

• Went into draft/rookie with open mind re keeping spot open, and always wanted to bring a few players
• Then had the Bugg situation, Doc and Pickett injuries
• Gibbons done well, 21 games and 21 different haircuts

On TDK:

• Gave a big wrap to Tom De Koning – special things for guy his size
• Sees him as a ruck

On Lochie O’Brien:

• Struggled with form early, but didn’t drop bundle
• Worked hard and got his rewards towards end of year

On Dow:

• Had some form issues and spent some time at VFL level but worked hard and got back, saw the real Paddy Dow

On Dow and TDK’s brothers in 2019 draft:

• Had VIC Country boys at Ikon and was nice to see brothers together – was a nice feeling and you’d hope they all end up together one day
• Both kids have talent but inconsistent, but are real top-end talents

On Walsh’s younger brothers:

• Close eye on Henry, very tall (already 203)
• Tommy U12 young but plenty of spunk

On Fish and SPS:

• Really come on, seen some real growth in both
• Samo went back and has elite foot skills
• Fish went forward and added another string to bow
• Both grown in back half of year
• SPS spoke about Russell influence. Really confidence Samo was going to have good year, did most of PS and was in good shape. Jack Russell had big impact on whole group.

On long-term list:

• Got a really talented spine, good midfield and some exciting forwards
• Not interested in ‘stage of rebuild’, rather enjoying footy and natural growth
• Buoyed by Brisbane’s story

On Cripps:

• Helps so much having him. Great person, great on-field leader – still young with a lot of footy left in him
• It does (help having him here as a pull for players to come to us) and having him commit long-term last year tells a story to opposition clubs that we think we’re on the right track.
• He’s been great for culture of the club. Enormous pressure on young, first-year captain, but he’s done a great job.

On Pick 8 and whether we’ll have it at end of trade period:

• Still a lot of water to go under the bridge
• We’re looking to improve our list anyway we can – trade/FA
• Pretty coy, not giving anything away

On whether last half of season make attracting players easier compared to last year:

• It’s gotta help. Winning helps. Everyone loves to win.
• But the positive vibe around the place with players having smiles on their faces. And players talk.
• We hope we’re a destination club

On Wishlist of players:

• Cain let the small forward cat out of the bag
• Confident in our list and natural growth
• Again, generic answers giving nothing away

On Papley and recruitment of players:

• Knows Tom well from recruitment at Sydney
• But respecting of opposition clubs and contracted players so wouldn’t discuss

On Martin:

• Not entirely correct (that club has met with Jack), but are planning to

On presentation to players:

• Very tailored to individuals that varies from player to player
• Will keep details to themselves

On general list and recruitment:

• Really comfortable with spine, midfield and list
• Can’t have enough good players, just want players who are the right fit and want to come to Carlton – be that forward, tall or midfielder
• More about needs and requirements rather than strict age-based

On next frontier of scouting:

• Data and analytics and information is becoming more important

Mick came across as very personable but shrewd and tight-lipped. Refused to give anything away, particularly discussion around contracted players or guys we might be targeting. No way any leaks come from him.

TL;DR: The club is in good hands. In SOS/Agresta we trust.

Thought Agresta made an interesting point about how he looks for competitiveness in potential draftees and how it can manifest itself in different ways.

The obvious is a player like Cripps who is just a contested ball beast but Agresta also used the example of Lochie O'Briens 'competitiveness' in how hard and aggressive he is prepared to run in a game.

 

[THE_GUN]

Is anyone else concerned about Martin's inconsistency?

Has been this way his whole career. Understand the allure but is it something we're prepared to put up with over a season?

Yes a little ..he hasn't set the world on fire yet..i'm loathe to offer up too much to get him

I haven’t followed his career that closely. I’ve seen him do things on a footy field that only the elite can achieve.

Here are his stats. I think you’ll be surprised.

AFL Tables - Jack Martin - Stats - Statistics

Would have to be concerning for a player in his 7th year
16 disposals and less than 1 goal a game

Midfield numbers are low if he is a midfielder but dont really see him as a small foward and his numbers in goals dont really reflect that either. looks like he averages 15-16 games a season.

I suppose playing in a weak team would contribute to that but you would be paying a top pick (looking like a mid 1st rounder) you would have the thought of hat he would become in your team based on potential.

But the $$$$ mentioned for the above stats are pretty high

 

[Blue since 72]

Would have to be concerning for a player in his 7th year
16 disposals and less than 1 goal a game

Midfield numbers are low if he is a midfielder but dont really see him as a small foward and his numbers in goals dont really reflect that either. looks like he averages 15-16 games a season.

I suppose playing in a weak team would contribute to that but you would be paying a top pick (looking like a mid 1st rounder) you would have the thought of hat he would become in your team based on potential.

But the $$$$ mentioned for the above stats are pretty high

Yeah looking at the stats Rmh posted I'm certainly a bit underwhelmed.

I understand the desire to add class in terms of skills but inconsistency is really frustrating and at his age potential shouldn't be a word used to describe him.

I guess it's a case of if the price is digestable you go for it and perhaps you're right, a weak team hasn't flattered him.

 

[Faz 2000]

We don’t need 30 touches from Martin or a player like him. We need 10-15 really good ones. I think he can do that.

We have a nice cake, need some icing.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

It would appear that things have gone backwards for Jack Martin over the last two seasons. 2016 and 2017 demonstrate a level of consistency which, for a guy in his early 20s, is really good and promising for his future. I reckon he will surprise at a new club.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

If Richmond didn’t get lynch and change there set up butler would still be getting a game — look what Lloyd has done at dogs— I prefer him to gray ..

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Richmond were that strong for small forwards they had butler Townsend rioli in the same VFL side this
Year

 

[THE_GUN]

If Richmond didn’t get lynch and change there set up butler would still be getting a game — look what Lloyd has done at dogs— I prefer him to gray ..

Butler was unlucky his form dropped off about the same time that Stack came on and as well as baker.

Butler is a good player with alot of upside still but unfortunately he has fallen out of favour with the MC and some supporters

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Butler was unlucky his form dropped off about the same time that Stack came on and as well as baker.

Butler is a good player with alot of upside still but unfortunately he has fallen out of favour with the MC and some supporters

Yeah, I reckons he'll be in the navy blue next year.....he showed his potential in 2017, and was in the AFL 22 Under 22 team last year.

Struggling this year for the Tiges because your blessed with a number of good players in that small forward role....but Balme has never been one to stifle the opportunities of players on the periphery. A current or future token 4th round pick would probably get the deal done.

 

[THE_GUN]

Yeah, I reckons he'll be in the navy blue next year.....he showed his potential in 2017, and was in the AFL 22 Under 22 team last year.

Struggling this year for the Tiges because your blessed with a number of good players in that small forward role....but Balme has never been one to stifle the opportunities of players on the periphery. A current or future token 4th round pick would probably get the deal done.

Correct i think either your pick #67 or exchange of #44 for our #72 or something like that

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Correct i think either your pick #67 or exchange of #44 for our #72 or something like that

 

[THE_GUN]

 

[Robert Heatley]

I would like to see a play for Jack Petruccelle. Damaging with his pace and in my opinion would be a great fit for us. I know hes contracted but a hearty and long term might work. I would estimate a 4 year deal at 400-500 might get it over the line.

I would happily float pick 8 so long as we also netted their pick 22 back. All in all it seems pretty win win with WC getting a top 10 pick to help secure Kelly as well as dropping Petruccelles wage he currently commands.
We on the other pick up a lightning fast small forward as well as pick 22 to then possibly on trade.

With our leftover picks (22, 39, 44, 67, 80) I would love to address some support for Cripps by trading for Sam Powell-Pepper with pick 22. Yes, he is a butcher and yes, he has had a few off field issues but he would add a hardness and aggression that it is my belief we severly lack.

Use 67 on Darcy Cameron and take 39, 44 & 80 to the draft.

Yes please to Petrucelle.