Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

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murphbf08

Team Captain
Nov 18, 2007
410
359
hawthorn
AFL Club
Carlton
Is anybody able to let us know, how many list spots we have atm. So far we have thomas,fasolo,pickett,garlett,lobbe,kerr,schumacher and lebois off the list thats 8. Just not sure how it works with the likes of deluca and gibbons joining us half way through the year, and we have 5 on the rookie list already? I'm just trying to work out how many players we will probably be trading for and how many we'll take in the draft.
 

Coona Blues

Director of Coaching
Nov 3, 2011
2,365
5,733
Bundaberg, Qld
AFL Club
Carlton
Is anybody able to let us know, how many list spots we have atm. So far we have thomas,fasolo,pickett,garlett,lobbe,kerr,schumacher and lebois off the list thats 8. Just not sure how it works with the likes of deluca and gibbons joining us half way through the year, and we have 5 on the rookie list already? I'm just trying to work out how many players we will probably be trading for and how many we'll take in the draft.
As it sits, Lebois leaving has us with the standard four rookies plus Owies as a category B. No rookie vacancy unless we promote someone or alter our divide.
Seven spots vacant on the main list at the moment, with three of them required for draft (and/or rookie upgrade)
 

The Bighouse

Premiership Player
Jun 28, 2009
4,487
4,612
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
On the fence with Betts.
Can find an argument for him and can just as easily find an argument against him.

What happens, happens but the supporters best not to expect too much from Eddie, should we acquire him.
I'd be happy with a dozen or so reasonable games and a bit of magic here and there. That would do.
Yeah, about right with a dozen “quality” games from himself. If we win those though, that’s borderline finals...

I think the basis could more well be the mentoring off-field and forward line teachings/nous brought to the club - including a coaching role post hanging up the boots.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,971
70,093
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Is anybody able to let us know, how many list spots we have atm. So far we have thomas,fasolo,pickett,garlett,lobbe,kerr,schumacher and lebois off the list thats 8. Just not sure how it works with the likes of deluca and gibbons joining us half way through the year, and we have 5 on the rookie list already? I'm just trying to work out how many players we will probably be trading for and how many we'll take in the draft.
33 currently on the main list
4 Cat A rookies
1 Cat B rookie

All depends on which break up we opt for now: 38/6/1 - 39/5/1 - 40/4/1

I doubt we'll be picking up 7 players by trade and draft to go onto the main list though.
Best guess would be 3 players via trade and 3 players at the ND, leaving one selection at RD.
Of course this changes should Casboult or Phillips move on, or should we have to trade a player.

Still unsure as to why we had to quit Schumacher so quickly.
 

The Bighouse

Premiership Player
Jun 28, 2009
4,487
4,612
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Is anybody able to let us know, how many list spots we have atm. So far we have thomas,fasolo,pickett,garlett,lobbe,kerr,schumacher and lebois off the list thats 8. Just not sure how it works with the likes of deluca and gibbons joining us half way through the year, and we have 5 on the rookie list already? I'm just trying to work out how many players we will probably be trading for and how many we'll take in the draft.
At this stage in limbo unless others are traded.
Rookies: Deluca, Cottrell
OOC: Casboult (trigger), Phillips

Retired (5): Thomas, Fasolo, Lobbe, Pickett, Bugg
Delisted (4): Schumacher, Garlett, Kerr, Lebois

Senior List = 33 (incl Cas/Flip)
Rookies = 2 Gibbons, Goddard
Cat B = Owies

So 9 spots to sign up currently, incl carryover rookies.
-1 for Jack Martin
 

Garters

Debutant
Apr 12, 2019
110
297
AFL Club
Carlton
What I want to see from the CFC is that once a player comes to us, they become the better player.
Hard to say whether we now have the right formula in place with Teague & Russell, but it's what we need to show for future players wanting to come to us.
No team can get this right 100% of the time, but we have to become more of a Hawthorn in this department than a Melbourne.


Re. Cameron:
What is it exactly do we see in a 24/5 year old that has a history of having played 1 AFL game?
Even when he had the door open to him this year, Sydney opted for non-ruckman in front of him. What do we see?
Re Cameron, I have never seen him play to be honest, (was probably getting a haircut
or something that game/career to date) Ruckman are strange beasts though and is the one key position that never develops as a normal footballer should/is expected to) That's why it is such a merry go round early days. If you can get him in cheap and he is a developed frame, at 25 he should be coming into the window where he could potentially come good. High risk, inexpensive, potentially high reward. Cost is key. The list is long of Rucks coming from nowhere to play a key role once a bit older.
 

BlueTongue

Premiership Player
Oct 23, 2009
3,271
2,437
The Void
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
#Teague2020
Eddie over Butler all day long. Its not even a debate I would suggest.
Yep. I can't see why we are breaking balls to get a small forward in ahead of (still) the best crumbing forward in the game. We don't lose with Eddie. He will bring back those members from the wilderness and boost membership numbers. He will play the role we need for a couple of years until he retires, and it's time to get someone else, at which point I suspect we'll have a lot more players lining up to come to the club. When he's finished, he will be a great person to keep on for player development not to mention while he's playing. All this I for (I suspect) very low cost to the club.

We can't throw away a massive opportunity like that.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,971
70,093
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
I really don't like the idea of recruiting a player that played 'x' role and turned them into a player that plays the 'y' role...........but -
If we are taking on Papley and Martin and then still reeling in Butler and maybe even Betts, something has to give.

Is it possible that we've sold the notion of Martin playing in our backline?
I'm likely miles off, but I can now see Martin being that exit-player we've been craving for and especially so as Simpson will surely be in his last year and output may drop-off through the course of the year. Maybe?
 

The Bighouse

Premiership Player
Jun 28, 2009
4,487
4,612
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
I really don't like the idea of recruiting a player that played 'x' role and turned them into a player that plays the 'y' role...........but -
If we are taking on Papley and Martin and then still reeling in Butler and maybe even Betts, something has to give.

Is it possible that we've sold the notion of Martin playing in our backline?
I'm likely miles off, but I can now see Martin being that exit-player we've been craving for and especially so as Simpson will surely be in his last year and output may drop-off through the course of the year. Maybe?
Thought it was raised by someone a while back that J.Martin could be direct replacement for Daisy..?

There’s also Papley as a majority midfielder.
 

Dravid's in

All Australian
May 10, 2001
806
3,585
Adelaide
AFL Club
Carlton
I really don't like the idea of recruiting a player that played 'x' role and turned them into a player that plays the 'y' role...........but -
If we are taking on Papley and Martin and then still reeling in Butler and maybe even Betts, something has to give.

Is it possible that we've sold the notion of Martin playing in our backline?
I'm likely miles off, but I can now see Martin being that exit-player we've been craving for and especially so as Simpson will surely be in his last year and output may drop-off through the course of the year. Maybe?
 

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Kramer1

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
8,983
14,125
AFL Club
Carlton
I really don't like the idea of recruiting a player that played 'x' role and turned them into a player that plays the 'y' role...........but -
If we are taking on Papley and Martin and then still reeling in Butler and maybe even Betts, something has to give.

Is it possible that we've sold the notion of Martin playing in our backline?
I'm likely miles off, but I can now see Martin being that exit-player we've been craving for and especially so as Simpson will surely be in his last year and output may drop-off through the course of the year. Maybe?
Or we are aiming to return SPS to the midfield. Martin makes sense across a number of scenarios.
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
7,352
20,754
AFL Club
Carlton
I really don't like the idea of recruiting a player that played 'x' role and turned them into a player that plays the 'y' role...........but -
If we are taking on Papley and Martin and then still reeling in Butler and maybe even Betts, something has to give.

Is it possible that we've sold the notion of Martin playing in our backline?
I'm likely miles off, but I can now see Martin being that exit-player we've been craving for and especially so as Simpson will surely be in his last year and output may drop-off through the course of the year. Maybe?
Martin high HF/wing.
Papley deep forward with stints up the ground.
Betts/Butler pistols at dawn for the other forward pocket, or both getting games should Cuningham have another injury-affected season.

I'd hope if we're bringing Butler in he's not getting promised senior game time. The contract and trade terms to get him across wouldn't be indicative of a walk-up start, so he'd be leaving a club where he's behind 5 or 6 other blokes, to be in the only 3-4 in that role instead. Better odds of getting a game, but no guarantees.

I don't think any club in the comp would be able to give him a better shot than he'd get at Carlton, but it would be up to him to earn it.
 

BlueJet

Premiership Player
Aug 16, 2009
4,569
3,712
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
North Ballarat
We all love Eddie, however, given we aren't yet in "win now" mode, Butler or another small forward with a bit more tread on the tyres would likely be preferable from a list management perspective.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Kramer1

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
8,983
14,125
AFL Club
Carlton
Why would we? He has played far better playing of halfback than he has through the midfield.
Far better or is it just a bit easier for him to find the ball? Still think his most inflential work is in the middle, his best game was in the middle, and maybe another pre season gets him there permanently.

Plus the imminent return of Docherty and likely inclusion of Martin causes a reshuffle.
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
5,488
7,234
AFL Club
Carlton
Far better or us it just a bit easier for him to find the ball? Still think his most inflential work is in the middle, and maybe another pre season gets him there permanently.

Plus the imminent return of Docherty and likely inclusion if Martin causes a reshuffle.
I certainly don't see Martin playing off half back. I also am far from bullish about Docherty's return. He wont have played for more than two years. Far from convinced he will be anything like he was previously.
 

Christou2Kouta

Team Captain
Jul 7, 2018
420
1,454
AFL Club
Carlton
Legit getting excited by our 2020 prospects with Martin and Papley hopefully joining the team. We already have so much improvement in our forwards just from getting a full preseason/season into/out of Charlie, Harry, Gov and Cuningham. Just imagining two other dangerous smalls who like kicking goals along with a full preseason under Teague who can develop and train up his more attacking game style... just give us the cup.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Kramer1

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 8, 2007
8,983
14,125
AFL Club
Carlton
I certainly don't see Martin playing off half back. I also am far from bullish about Docherty's return. He wont have played for more than two years. Far from convinced he will be anything like he was previously.
How Doc returns isn't the question...yet. If he gets through pre season he will have a spot waiting, and will be given time to make it his again.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Premiership Player
Apr 20, 2006
4,428
4,539
AFL Club
Carlton
Say if we have all 8 of MM, Curnow, McKay, Papley, Cuningham, Butler, Betts and Martin in the same side. Assuming be just rotate starting mids from the bench, maybe HB.
Then let’s pretend a game goes for 100min. If the six starting forwards play 80min each game time than we are left with 120min of game time to share between two of the above 8 who started on the bench, then assume players like Papley and Martin play 60min each forward and 20 min each up the ground then that pretty much equals all 8 playing 80% game time in the forward line. Proper forwards playing forward.
It can work. Also if say Harry chops out in the ruck for say 15% of the game that gives us 15% of game time to try another player down there, maybe Cripps forward for example. Same goes if we want to push MM back. Plenty of ways to make it work. I actually love it because we will have specialist players in every position.
 

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