Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[JohnnyFontane90]

We need senior players between 23-27 years old who have played over 100 games at least 4 of them as we are far too young.No point in picking up another 18 year old hence why some posters here have said we aren’t using our first pick at the draft(whatever that pick is)Need experience solid players.

IMO the time where this was needed was last year and this year.

by next year dow, fisher, SPS, setterfield, cuningham and walsh should all be better than competent 4 quarter midfielders capable of contested and uncontested stuff.

taranto and hopper did most of the contested heavy lifting against us and they're taken in the same draft as SPS & setterfield and kennedy respectively.

we just need o'brien, stocker and kennedy to come along for the ride as well.

but we do need to draft some high end quality small forwards

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Meh!. I think his performance as List Manager is very much over rated.

I'll go with good!

 

[Soapy V]

Out of interest: We have 1 player drafted between the 2008 draft and 2014 draft left on our list in Cripps.

Does anyone know what the least amount of draft picks another side has in that time?

That’s our underlining issue.

Shows what we had to work with at the start of this rebuild. Go through every deal and who we have brought in especially with what we had to deal with and its impressive

 

[Blues_fest]

I’m more frustrated with blues supporters than the group.

If the entitled cry baby supporters cause the coach to be sacked instead of sticking fat and enduring our progress and development and subconscious understanding of the game plan will be affected and the rebuild process will be longer.

Personally I would give the current coaching team til end 2020 guaranteed.

Yes it’s extra frustrating because we’ve already had to endure the pagan era, the horrific drafting in the ratts and malhouse era’s.. so I get everyone is exhausted, but we can’t judge this rebuild by the three shitty attempts prior. Pagan tried to avoid a rebuild with old bodies, ratts got given 4000 hbf’s and had to make them midfielders and Malthouse didn’t have much to work with or help either.

But the pain of those eras finally made entitled Carlton rebuild properly. We’ve finally got some great drafts in a row and a management team that seems aligned.

we’ve seen what we are capable of this year.

We’re capable of some great footy, the kids are developing and we’ve had injuries to the few experienced heads we have.

Our midfield are teenagers playing men and yes we can add bigger bodies in there but are we band-aiding the situation doing that.

Adding our stronger bodies doesn’t guarantee a win because our stronger bodies aren’t world beaters and have their own limitations. Why not as we are doing put games into the midfielders we believe will take us to #17.

From the age:

“The Blues don’t lack talent, they lack experienced talent. The team thrashed by the Giants had only four players with 100-plus games – Dale Thomas, Matthew Kreuzer, Ed Curnow and Murphy – plus Cripps (89 games), while 12 players had played fewer than 50 games (with Sam Petrevski-Seton on 51).”

__








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

IMO the time where this was needed was last year and this year.

by next year dow, fisher, SPS, setterfield, cuningham and walsh should all be better than competent 4 quarter midfielders capable of contested and uncontested stuff.

taranto and hopper did most of the contested heavy lifting against us and they're taken in the same draft as SPS & setterfield and kennedy respectively.

we just need o'brien, stocker and kennedy to come along for the ride as well.

but we do need to draft some high end quality small forwards

Id sooner have Taranto and Hopper in our team well ahead of those three you mentioned.

We need to trade and draft two experienced small forwards.

I 100% agree we need the 23 - 27 year age players brought in in the previous two trade periods. Spent far too long drafting kids, and drafting some that were wrong to begin with.

 

[Soapy V]

Id sooner have Taranto and Hopper in our team well ahead of those three you mentioned.

We need to trade and draft two experienced small forwards.

I 100% agree we need the 23 - 27 year age players brought in in the previous two trade periods. Spent far too long drafting kids, and drafting some that were wrong to begin with.

So getting Walsh BSOS & Stocker was wrong. Should have taken mature players with those picks?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

So getting Walsh BSOS & Stocker was wrong. Should have taken mature players with those picks?

Did I say that? Nope, I didn't.

 

[Soapy V]

Did I say that? Nope, I didn't.

You said we spent far too long drafting kids. So when would you have stopped?

If we were looking to have some wins now I may agree BUT I go along with SOS's comments

"I can build a side for finals quite quickly but we are building a list for Flags and long term success and it takes time"

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You said we spent far too long drafting kids. So when would you have stopped?

If we were looking to have some wins now I may agree BUT I go along with SOS's comments

"I can build a side for finals quite quickly but we are building a list for Flags and long term success and it takes time"

I hate that quote. It’s a complete cop out and if we don’t win a flag it can only come back and bite him on the bum.

 

[thylacine60]

why? you mean like "we want to win a flag" will?

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

You said we spent far too long drafting kids. So when would you have stopped?

If we were looking to have some wins now I may agree BUT I go along with SOS's comments

"I can build a side for finals quite quickly but we are building a list for Flags and long term success and it takes time"

I'll say it again, I don't believe SOS has done anywhere near as good a job as people have made out he has. This list as its presently constructed, wont win a flag, let alone multiple flags IMO.

 

[Soapy V]

I'll say it again, I don't believe SOS has done anywhere near as good a job as people have made out he has. This list as its presently constructed, wont win a flag, let alone multiple flags IMO.

Luckily it isn’t finished then

 

[PrendersBigEngine]

Lets not forget that Tim Kelly walked into a midfield of Danger, Selwood and Ablett. 3 of best ever. Add Duncan and a few others. Dow walked into a midfield that contained Cripper and a few kids with promise. Cant compare the two. Swap the two and story is way different.

 

[PrendersBigEngine]

Will be interesting to follow. Would be a good replacement for Murphy.

Next week T (Saints game).

Hindsight recruiting at its absolute finest.

Dow was in the conversation throughout that year for pick 1, we'd have been very heavily criticized for taking a 23 year old at that stage of our rebuild.

Kelly's a star but it would have been completely irresponsible to take him, particularly considering we know there's a very strong desire to return home.

 

[PrendersBigEngine]

Woops. Still some learning to do.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

why? you mean like "we want to win a flag" will?

why? you mean like "we want to win a flag" will?

It’s just a ridiculous statement. Look at Richmond, Adelaide, Collingwood and West Coast the last four grand final teams and now Geelong have all built from the middle of the table. you don’t have to build a side that had our 2nd worst season ever to win flags.
It’s the easiest way to get talent. Get a horrible side and get the best picks possible and be in a position where you can pay kids like Marchbank, Setterfield, Pickett ect more than they are worth to gain more young talent. ATM all he is doing is building a huge amount of young top end talent but neglecting so much in doing so. Have a look at GC list and what they will bring in again at the end of this offseason. It’s a similar list to our kids and I don’t expect them to just become a powerhouse of the comp because some things are more important than kids taken at the pointy end of the draft.
The thing is he knows this and that’s why he completely changed his attack last offseason by going all out on Shiel and MM and will again this off season.

 

[OldCarltonKnows]

I hope Paddy Dow proves me wrong......but Tim Kelly would have been a better pick

Did you dream this up all by yourself?

 

[crippamagic33]

Is owies going to receive another year on rookie list or will he get the flick ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Coona Blues]

Is owies going to receive another year on rookie list or will he get the flick ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Owies is a Category B rookie who concentrated on a basketball after playing good footy at the highest level possible as an early teenager.
His pre season was punctuated by soft tissue injuries (hamstring) which is understandable under a heavy load after not kicking for 4-5 years. He
is just now getting some continuity and showing some very good signs despite being a relatively small sample. He has already shown as much for
the Northern Blues as LeBois playing his 3rd year on the Cat A rookie list.

Absolutely will be staying around IMO.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Some facts about the players I think will be a big part of our future and are all 22 and under

Weitering - 65 games
Charlie - 53
SPS - 51
Silvagni - 48
Marchbank - 42
Fisher - 43
Kennedy - 31
Dow - 27
McKay - 24
LOB - 24
Garlett - 30
Cuningham - 20
Williamson - 17
Polson - 16
Macreadie - 9
Walsh - 9
Setterfield - 8
Stocker - 3
TDK - 2

Doesn't include

Gibbons - 23 years old and 9 games
Goddard - 22 & 10
Kerr - 20 & 4
Pickett 22 & 17

Newman has only 38 games, Lang 55, Phillips 39 and McGovern 56. Not exactly seasoned professionals.

Plus we have Finbar Cottrell LeBois Owies Schumacher BSOS that haven't even played yet


That is a ridiculously young and inexperienced list. No wonder we struggle to win games.

There is 13 games left this year. Even if they all played all the games for the rest of the year most will still be well under 50 games heading into 2020. Even if most play 15-20 games in 2020 we will still have several with less than 50 games. That's if things go well!

Makes it hard to play well consistently with so many so young. This will take time. It can't be rushed. I wish it could. Adding some mature quality players will help and a lot but until this young group ALL get to the 50 plus game mark we will really have a lot of ups and downs and will not be a finals side.

Just a bit of perspective based on facts.

We had 13 players in their 4th or less years ...

Weitering, McKay, Charlie, JSOS
SPS, Fisher, Setterfield, Macreadie
Dow, O’Brien
Walsh, Stocker, Gibbons

McGovern is 24, Cripps too, Marchbank is 22.

Newman the one other player in the 24-28 age bracket.

That dearth in the 24-28 bracket are our dead draft years ... Bootsma, Lucas, Menzel, Watson, Boekhorst, Yarran ...

Then it is Ed, Thomas, Kreuzer, Casboult and Murphy. They had a collective good year in 2017 along with Gibbs and Wright, but their impact is waning.

Club has to stay the course with no quick fixes and IMO find 4 strong bodies.

 

[thylacine60]

Is owies going to receive another year on rookie list or will he get the flick ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

sounds like a voice over to next week's episode of OWIESMAN!!! STAY TUNED!!

 

[Pafloyul]

It’s just a ridiculous statement. Look at Richmond, Adelaide, Collingwood and West Coast the last four grand final teams and now Geelong have all built from the middle of the table. you don’t have to build a side that had our 2nd worst season ever to win flags.
It’s the easiest way to get talent. Get a horrible side and get the best picks possible and be in a position where you can pay kids like Marchbank, Setterfield, Pickett ect more than they are worth to gain more young talent. ATM all he is doing is building a huge amount of young top end talent but neglecting so much in doing so. Have a look at GC list and what they will bring in again at the end of this offseason. It’s a similar list to our kids and I don’t expect them to just become a powerhouse of the comp because some things are more important than kids taken at the pointy end of the draft.
The thing is he knows this and that’s why he completely changed his attack last offseason by going all out on Shiel and MM and will again this off season.

Apples versus oranges, we were starting pretty much from scratch so there's a possibility that we would have been ill-prepared to take the club any further once we had made the finals. Having said that, I think our rebuild, on paper, has been a mixed bag.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Is owies going to receive another year on rookie list or will he get the flick ?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Keep him on for sure. If you take on a Cat B rookie, you need to give them a few years.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I'll say it again, I don't believe SOS has done anywhere near as good a job as people have made out he has. This list as its presently constructed, wont win a flag, let alone multiple flags IMO.

I think the list is shaping well. There is one thing, however, that needs to change. It's the composition of KPP's vs smaller players on our list.

We've currently got:

Tall Forwards x 7
Tall Defenders x 7
Rucks x 4 (includes De Koning)

That's probably at least one too many in each category, especially given the way the game is going with teams opting for smaller, faster lineups.

Take out three talls and add three hard running players and our list will be more balanced. We'll also be less likely to face the proposition of having to replace smalls with talls because that's all we've got to choose from.

I like what we're doing. Just some minor tweaks needed. Hopefully no more than 5 list changes. Up to two trades and three in the national draft.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agree mostly but not sure about Robbo. I think it was right for both of us.

Some people seem to focus on any mistakes. There have been some, no doubt but look what we started with and look what we have brought in in just 3 years. It's an amazing transformation.

Our weakness is mostly experience and a few positions. We are mostly pretty good.

People also need to remember we aren't finished. It will be 2-3 years more before we really step up. In that times there will be around 15-20 list changes. The good thing is that we already have the young talent and as we step up in 2-3 years most will be close to 100 games.

I dont think either SOS or Bolton will have that long soap, If there is not a considerable improvement in 2020 5th year of the rebuild and to wait another 2 years wont cut it.

Then you have other problems where you will have alot of the talented players that you mention coming to free agency area and with no success they will be 1. Looking at big big offers for MacKay , Curnow , Fisher ,Cripps tc and also 2. These same players will be looking to play in a sucessfull team , Its all good saying anybody can build a list to play finals but there are no guarantee's any club is going to win a flag as with GWS with probably 3 times the talent and a better age group and with still a pocket full of picks still in the bank and yet to make a flag in their 8th year.

I really cant see the natives staying Calm for another 3 years