Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[JohnnyFontane90]

Lyon's was already gone by the time Adelaide traded Gibbs. He was at GC


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he was being discussed as the steak knives in year 1 of the gibbs saga. adelaide wanted to offer him and a 1st. carlton refused and insisted on the 2 firsts which adelaide came up with the following year.

 

[PostPaolo]

Lyon's was already gone by the time Adelaide traded Gibbs. He was at GC


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Yep you're right, was thinking of the previous year when the Gibbs trade was first spoke of in 2016

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Ferrisb may be having a lend but basically right, we aren't necessarily too tall, we are too slow.

Slow in leg speed.
Also slow from brain to hand or foot!

 

[Sammo63]

Slow in leg speed.
Also slow from brain to hand or foot!

Slow from brain to hand and foot because their brain is overloaded trying to process the rubbish game plan or lack of !!!
They’d be much faster if they played some free flowing football....like the first half against Hawthorn....isn’t it ironic that after half time in that game it was a completely different team.
I wonder what was said in the rooms that day at the long change ??


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[gbatman]

We need a couple of players who can come in and average 25 possessions minimum and provide a strong physical presence around the ball. Quality tackling, an ability to win the footy and get a handball away effectively under pressure.

Add a couple of mature players with these qualities and it will turn our side around providing they are quality players.

Unfortunately these guys won't come cheap and I doubt will come in the preseason draft.

Another disadvantage of being a bottom side is that you need good players to make an impact. It's not like being a top side where you might need a ruck and half back who you can usually get cheap to plug a hole.

Lack of physical strength is starting to really stand out in our games.

You look at what Collingwood have done bringing in hard mature bodies from other clubs they have Greenwood, Hoskin-Elliott, Treloar, Crisp, Beams, Adams plus a whole heap of others.Half of Hawthorn's midfield is from other clubs.

We need to start trading picks and getting free agents to get some quality mature hard bodies into our midfield.

Lack of ability to lay quality tackles and lack of ability from our midfield as a whole to break a tackle and get a handball away is why we don't have a good handball game and that's why our forward line and midfield is not functioning.

 

[Soapy V]

We need a couple of players who can come in and average 25 possessions minimum and provide a strong physical presence around the ball. Quality tackling, an ability to win the footy and get a handball away effectively under pressure.

Add a couple of mature players with these qualities and it will turn our side around providing they are quality players.

Unfortunately these guys won't come cheap and I doubt will come in the preseason draft.

Another disadvantage of being a bottom side is that you need good players to make an impact. It's not like being a top side where you might need a ruck and half back who you can usually get cheap to plug a hole.

Lack of physical strength is starting to really stand out in our games.

You look at what Collingwood have done bringing in hard mature bodies from other clubs they have Greenwood, Hoskin-Elliott, Treloar, Crisp, Beams, Adams plus a whole heap of others.Half of Hawthorn's midfield is from other clubs.

We need to start trading picks and getting free agents to get some quality mature hard bodies into our midfield.

Lack of ability to lay quality tackles and lack of ability from our midfield as a whole to break a tackle and get a handball away is why we don't have a good handball game and that's why our forward line and midfield is not functioning.

100%. Put it down on paper and we have the young talent. What we need now is the hard mature bodies to help get them through.

We desperately need ball winners.

Names like you mentioned in Crisp, Greenwood didn't cost that much. Up to SOS & Co to get them. A gun would be awesome but getting the others will be just as important. We really don't need that much and hopefully we can get some quality late in the draft as well

 

[4thchicken]

It'd bring some great, open and kind discussion back into this place. We would gently point to their dropping him twice mid-year and hating on his skills/ability all year, and bring it down to a 3rd rounder or GTFO.

Done. Everyone's happy. Next, please.

Would love Gibbs back at the club to provide another mature body for a couple of years - perhaps for a future 4th round pick

 

[murphster]

Lyon's was already gone by the time Adelaide traded Gibbs. He was at GC


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First year Gibbs requested his trade Lyons was still there, I also thought at the time him and a first rounder would have been decent compo.

 

[murphster]

100%. Put it down on paper and we have the young talent. What we need now is the hard mature bodies to help get them through.

We desperately need ball winners.

Names like you mentioned in Crisp, Greenwood didn't cost that much. Up to SOS & Co to get them. A gun would be awesome but getting the others will be just as important. We really don't need that much and hopefully we can get some quality late in the draft as well

Need a mature body that wins 25+ disposals but most importantly 12-16 contested and between 5-8 clearances this is where our biggest hole is between Cripps and the rest. Maybe we should take a punt in the mid season draft and take a Jye Bolton, I would have said Marlion Pickett if not for his broken finger which will keep him out for 10 weeks. Desperate need ASAP if we want to start winning games this year, because if they sack Bolton at the end of the year I give up, because all the last 4 years will be wasted and it will be start again, I can’t take another Malthouse, Pagan it will kill me literally.

 

[gbatman]

Need a mature body that wins 25+ disposals but most importantly 12-16 contested and between 5-8 clearances this is where our biggest hole is between Cripps and the rest. Maybe we should take a punt in the mid season draft and take a Jye Bolton, I would have said Marlion Pickett if not for his broken finger which will keep him out for 10 weeks. Desperate need ASAP if we want to start winning games this year because if they sack Bolton at the end of the year I give up because all the last 4 years will be wasted and it will be start again, I can’t take another Malthouse, Pagan it will kill me literally.

True, that's what we need but will Jye Bolton average 25+ and do all this?

I don't think sacking Bolton would waste everything we have done, it would just do nothing. If anything it might deter people from wanting to be employed by an organisation which has become renowned for sacking it's employees and destabilise a few things.

In all honesty thought if we were to get a new coach I think they would just continue of from what we are already doing it would just run a risk of destabilise things for a while.

It's simple, the club just ignores the fans and bad press, continues on with it's plan and when things start coming good again everyone who's been bagging us and calling for sackings and what have you will come crawling back. Successful clubs have built sustained success by sticking to their plans and sticking with their people and ignoring the media and the complaining fans.

Losing is a symptom of what we are doing. It's a shame we have had to do it this way but with our past we have had no choice. We're losing, there will be criticism and complaints. In saying that if we end up with a new coach it probably won't be the end of the world. Obviously you run the risk of things become destabilised and the potential new coach being no good and losing players.

At this stage we aren't losing young players and that's the main reason why I think destabilising things would be a really bad idea.

 

[murphster]

Our other big problem which I also mentioned last year is our defensive running, our speed in attack is always way higher than our speed in defence and this needs to change now if we want to win games. On the weekend the only one that was good both ways was Gibbons who also covered the most distance on the field at 15.6km. The other area we are getting smashed in is sprint efforts and repeat sprint efforts which seems to be getting worse.

 

[Soapy V]

Need a mature body that wins 25+ disposals but most importantly 12-16 contested and between 5-8 clearances this is where our biggest hole is between Cripps and the rest. Maybe we should take a punt in the mid season draft and take a Jye Bolton, I would have said Marlion Pickett if not for his broken finger which will keep him out for 10 weeks. Desperate need ASAP if we want to start winning games this year because if they sack Bolton at the end of the year I give up because all the last 4 years will be wasted and it will be start again, I can’t take another Malthouse, Pagan it will kill me literally.

Yep. Don't need to be Guns but that would be better. IMO we have the elite players coming through.
We can get a number of very good players via trades/FA and also through the draft

I'd be going after Ellis & Cuningham with everything I had.
Touk Miller, Papely or Martin would be great
Is North going to rebuild? If so I'd go after Cunington. Perfect for us
Names like Jong Lester or Townsend as examples would be available fairly cheap. Big bodies who will do a job.
Jye Bolton or similar through the draft or rookies
We will also have the money and 2 possible first round picks to entice other clubs

I also believe we will bring in the right mature players over the next 2-3 seasons. Get 4-6 this year and we are in a good spot.

We don't need anymore youth. They just need help

 

[Bluechip66]

I think someone mentioned it before, but if kangas go for more youth and get rid of some older guys..
Anyone for.....Cunnington? Maybe even Higgins?
Bigger bodies to help Cripps

 

[Broadside]

I also believe we will bring in the right mature players over the next 2-3 seasons. Get 4-6 this year and we are in a good spot.

haven't we traded away some of this year's draft picks? let's say we get Adelaide's first pick -- call it pick 9, is that enough to get a Coniglio or similar quality? what is our next draft pick? round 3 I believe.

We really need a priority pick......23 wins in 5 years (assuming we get another 3 wins this season which seems a reach).

I don't see us having the currency to get one star and 2 really solid players onto our list unless we trade some quality.

 

[Soapy V]

haven't we traded away some of this year's draft picks? let's say we get Adelaide's first pick -- call it pick 9, is that enough to get a Coniglio or similar quality? what is our next draft pick? round 3 I believe.

We really need a priority pick......23 wins in 5 years (assuming we get another 3 wins this season which seems a reach).

We have a first round this year and a 3rd rounder plus later picks
Then we also have next years picks
I think we will go heavily will all up for grabs

 

[Broadside]

Okay pick 9 (Adelaide's) plus our next year's first round for an A grader. Assuming we can convince said player, not easy without more wins on the board.

Still very little currency beyond that.

 

[AB_Blue]

Yep. Don't need to be Guns but that would be better. IMO we have the elite players coming through.
We can get a number of very good players via trades/FA and also through the draft

I'd be going after Ellis & Cuningham with everything I had.
Touk Miller, Papely or Martin would be great
Is North going to rebuild? If so I'd go after Cunington. Perfect for us
Names like Jong Lester or Townsend as examples would be available fairly cheap. Big bodies who will do a job.
Jye Bolton or similar through the draft or rookies
We will also have the money and 2 possible first round picks to entice other clubs

I also believe we will bring in the right mature players over the next 2-3 seasons. Get 4-6 this year and we are in a good spot.

We don't need anymore youth. They just need help

Papley would be a dream
Ellis would be a decent get

Your right we need some experience around the ball. Drafting and playing kids is great but gifting kids games because we have no depth isn’t so good.

Dow & O’Brien (sorry soap) has been gifted games this yea. I totally get why but it would be great if that wasn’t the case

Make em earn it


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[Healer]

Would love Gibbs back at the club to provide another mature body for a couple of years - perhaps for a future 4th round pick

I would not be too hot on Gibbs, outside player essentially. And if you look back at historical BF rhetoric, went missing too often.
Great footballer when he was young and gamer. Great last year with us but he does not offer what we need right now. Strong mature bodies that can do some heavy lifting and protecting.

 

[Soapy V]

Okay pick 9 (Adelaide's) plus our next year's first round for an A grader. Assuming we can convince said player, not easy without more wins on the board.

Still very little currency beyond that.

I hear this every year. We have heaps

If we offer up our first rounder and or next years clubs will come for it.

Would this years first get Cunnington and a later pick
Can we get Cuningham and/or Ellis as a FA
Other players like I mentioned will be cheap
Then there is the draft to get some mature players

At maximum we are talking 5-6. Not that hard

 

[Soapy V]

Papley would be a dream
Ellis would be a decent get

Your right we need some experience around the ball. Drafting and playing kids is great but gifting kids games because we have no depth isn’t so good.

Dow & O’Brien (sorry soap) has been gifted games this yea. I totally get why but it would be great if that wasn’t the case

Make em earn it


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They have been as have Fisher Cuningham etc. It's all part of the rebuild.

Get the mature support and they can be rotated through and work on things in the reserves. When we can do that we are in a great position.

 

[Healer]

Cunnington would be enormous for us.

 

[Broadside]

I hear the every year. We have heaps

If we offer up our first rounder and or next years clubs will come for it.

Would this years first get Cunnington and a later pick
Can we get Cuningham and/or Ellis as a FA
Other players like I mentioned will be cheap
Then there is the draft to get some mature players

At maximum we are talking 5-6. Not that hard

I like your optimism but clearly it is very hard, the last 2 years end of season trading have shown it. We have chased players and missed out. That said I hadn't considered free agency end of this season which is a free hit for us to get another mature player and the time is very right.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I would not be too hot on Gibbs, outside player essentially. And if you look back at historical BF rhetoric, went missing too often.
Great footballer when he was young and gamer. Great last year with us but he does not offer what we need right now. Strong mature bodies that can do some heavy lifting and protecting.

would take gibbs back with open arms. he gets pushed to the outside at adelaide because they have the crouch brothers and Sloane but in 2017 he was a very complete midfielder. not gonna happen anyway

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

True, that's what we need but will Jye Bolton average 25+ and do all this?

I don't think sacking Bolton would waste everything we have done, it would just do nothing. If anything it might deter people from wanting to be employed by an organisation which has become renowned for sacking it's employees and destabilise a few things.

In all honesty thought if we were to get a new coach I think they would just continue of from what we are already doing it would just run a risk of destabilise things for a while.

It's simple, the club just ignores the fans and bad press, continues on with it's plan and when things start coming good again everyone who's been bagging us and calling for sackings and what have you will come crawling back. Successful clubs have built sustained success by sticking to their plans and sticking with their people and ignoring the media and the complaining fans.

Losing is a symptom of what we are doing. It's a shame we have had to do it this way but with our past we have had no choice. We're losing, there will be criticism and complaints. In saying that if we end up with a new coach it probably won't be the end of the world. Obviously you run the risk of things become destabilised and the potential new coach being no good and losing players.

At this stage we aren't losing young players and that's the main reason why I think destabilising things would be a really bad idea.

I don’t think we have to worry about losing the kids. They are in a dream environment where they are probably getting paid more than they would anywhere else, you are nearly guaranteed AFL games and you are at a big Melbourne club. They have time on their hands so winning isn’t as big of a priority as it is to older players.
Bolton certainly hasn’t lost this group yet though which is why he will most likely keep his job.
On successful clubs not changing personal I’m not sure about. hawthorn have lost nearly every assistant coach they have had. Geelong and Sydney changed coaches seamlessly. Even if Bolton stays on next you would imagine he and SOS are the only two blokes we haven’t changed over the last 4 years. Like getting Russell last year, change can sometimes be just what is needed.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Papley would be a dream
Ellis would be a decent get

Your right we need some experience around the ball. Drafting and playing kids is great but gifting kids games because we have no depth isn’t so good.

Dow & O’Brien (sorry soap) has been gifted games this yea. I totally get why but it would be great if that wasn’t the case

Make em earn it


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o'brien has been gifted games but dow is very much in the best 22. perhaps he's not quite ready to have such a big role in the midfield yet but he's in the team every day of the week.