Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Red Bull]

A plan hatched well before the Stocker trade, I would have said.

It just has to be that way as when you knock over one domino, all the other have to be in line, as much as they possibly can be.
I just don't subscribe to a 'let's see what happens' scenario. If you don't have some idea as to what's likely to happen and why, then maybe List Management isn't for you.

When the trading around Gibbs happened, everyone was hot to use the picks on mids.
Silvagni selected De Koning which was a major surprise.
De Koning will be ready when Kreuzer finishes up.
You are correct, the Stocker trade was planned and the final analysis of it may prove to be the final piece of the puzzle ...

 

[Mr_Plow]

A plan hatched well before the Stocker trade, I would have said.

It just has to be that way as when you knock over one domino, all the other have to be in line, as much as they possibly can be.
I just don't subscribe to a 'let's see what happens' scenario. If you don't have some idea as to what's likely to happen and why, then maybe List Management isn't for you.

Just scrolling through it now and noting some other changes:

- Pretty sure Samo was previously 180cm, they've now given him 2 extra cm
- Macreadie listed at 198cm when he was previously around the 195-196cm mark
- Cuningham now 185cm, was originally listed at 183cm

 

[HARKER]

When the trading around Gibbs happened, everyone was hot to use the picks on mids.
Silvagni selected De Koning which was a major surprise.
De Koning will be ready when Kreuzer finishes up.
You are correct, the Stocker trade was planned and the final analysis of it may prove to be the final piece of the puzzle ...

De Koning is interesting and as you say, should he become Kreuzers deserved successor, we'd be miles in front.

I'm glad we didn't try and find another ruckman last year and would again be glad should we not this year.
We really need to get a handle on just how good DeKoning can become first and if he does make for a starting AFL ruck-man, alternating with McKay (who will get stronger) we could have ourselves quite a potent ruck/forward duo.
I know that an 'if' is attached, but you can almost see it as more than just a mere possibility.

Find another ruck-man in 2020 if we have to, but let's allow organic growth in what we have right now and if Phillips does stay fit, I have no problems with going into 2020 with Kreuzer & Phillips with De Koning and at a distance, McKay developing.

 

[Red Bull]

De Koning is interesting and as you say, should he become Kreuzers deserved successor, we'd be miles in front.

I'm glad we didn't try and find another ruckman last year and would again be glad should we not this year.
We really need to get a handle on just how good DeKoning can become first and if he does make for a starting AFL ruck-man, alternating with McKay (who will get stronger) we could have ourselves quite a potent ruck/forward duo.
I know that an 'if' is attached, but you can almost see it as more than just a mere possibility.

Find another ruck-man in 2020 if we have to, but let's allow organic growth in what we have right now and if Phillips does stay fit, I have no problems with going into 2020 with Kreuzer & Phillips with De Koning and at a distance, McKay developing.

I remember reading somewhere how happy the De Koning family are with everything Carlton.
De Koning’s father was a ruckman and apparently young Tom has played and been groomed as a ruckman from an early age.
I’ve been of the opinion since his drafting that he was strategically selected as the heir apparent to Kreuzer with McKay as his relief partner.
Two mobile/athletic left footers , both with a healthy dose of “competitiveness” together for a decade.
Now that’s a plan ...

 

[HARKER]

I remember reading somewhere how happy the De Koning family are with everything Carlton.
De Koning’s father was a ruckman and apparently young Tom has played and been groomed as a ruckman from an early age.
I’ve been of the opinion since his drafting that he was strategically selected as the heir apparent to Kreuzer with McKay as his relief partner.
Two mobile/athletic left footers , both with a healthy dose of “competitiveness” together for a decade.
Now that’s a plan ...

We may well look back on this and in 24 months time say, "What were we thinking?", but should this plan pay off, it will be a big pay-off.

 

[Soapy V]

When the trading around Gibbs happened, everyone was hot to use the picks on mids.
Silvagni selected De Koning which was a major surprise.
De Koning will be ready when Kreuzer finishes up.
You are correct, the Stocker trade was planned and the final analysis of it may prove to be the final piece of the puzzle ...

I just don't see DeKoning as a No.1 Ruck. IMO he is more McKay than Kruezer. I'm looking forward to McKay & TDK holding our 2 key forward posts and having a gun ruck. Both TDK & McKay can go into the ruck when needed

 

[Red Bull]

We may well look back on this and in 24 months time say, "What were we thinking?", but should this plan pay off, it will be a big pay-off.

Obviously plans don’t always play out as hoped and if so , a Nankervis type can usually be secured.
It just appears to me taking on board De Koning’s background, the ruck position will be plan A for him ...

 

[HARKER]

Obviously plans don’t always play out as hoped and if so , a Nankervis type can usually be secured.
It just appears to me taking on board De Koning’s background, the ruck position will be plan A for him ...

He's now listed at 203cm and still only 19 years of age and the ruck should be plan A for him.
Has all the tools to be competitive all around the ground and even if he's not the best ruck-man, he may be the best option for the way we want to play.

We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

 

[Doro]

SOS had his eyes on McGovern 2 years ago.
Had his eyes trained on Setterfield since 2016
Shiel for who knows how long.

We know how this works, as we've now been through it many time before.
List Management would well and truly have their premium targets at the top of the board already and if they didn't have; They'd be doing it wrong.

It's somewhat evident as to what types we'll be targeting, so when we do eventually acquire at least some of them, it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Yeah, point being that it needs to be a little fluid, adding Walsh and Setterfield last off season probably makes the need for an A grade mid via trade/ free agency less urgent. I think the quality pressure fwd becomes more of value to us.

 

[barass70]

I remember reading somewhere how happy the De Koning family are with everything Carlton.
De Koning’s father was a ruckman and apparently young Tom has played and been groomed as a ruckman from an early age.
I’ve been of the opinion since his drafting that he was strategically selected as the heir apparent to Kreuzer with McKay as his relief partner.
Two mobile/athletic left footers , both with a healthy dose of “competitiveness” together for a decade.
Now that’s a plan ...

Yes

 

[HARKER]

Yeah, point being that it needs to be a little fluid, adding Walsh and Setterfield last off season probably makes the need for an A grade mid via trade/ free agency less urgent. I think the quality pressure fwd becomes more of value to us.

Still seems to me that Billings could well be on our radar and even though there are reasons we may not be excited by that name just yet, he is a quality player at his best and it would be up to Bolton and co to get that best out of him.

We do though still require some speed, daring and pressure, back and forward.
The names we have just don't seem to be up to the task, to me. That may change, but a lot would have to change, for that to change.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Still seems to me that Billings could well be on our radar and even though there are reasons we may not be excited by that name just yet, he is a quality player at his best and it would be up to Bolton and co to get that best out of him.

We do though still require some speed, daring and pressure, back and forward.
The names we have just don't seem to be up to the task, to me. That may change, but a lot would have to change, for that to change.

If we had stolen that game. And we werent far off honestly in possibly our toughest game for the year against a very good side.
And its not far off where we will be grabbing these games and taking the points. Then you would be singing a different tune. Its all relative.
Patience grasshoppper......

 

[Smokey_22]

Just scrolling through it now and noting some other changes:

- Pretty sure Samo was previously 180cm, they've now given him 2 extra cm
- Macreadie listed at 198cm when he was previously around the 195-196cm mark
- Cuningham now 185cm, was originally listed at 183cm

Where is this information from?

 

[Iamcarlton]

Anything could happen but Marchy would most likely push Garlett out of the side and Plowman will play on a smaller opponent.

Plowman is actually more suited to smaller players. He had some really good contests against Martin on Thursday.

He's definitely a much better player on smaller/mid sized opponents than what he is on larger opponents. A lot of people on here mistake him for a KPD but I honestly don't think he is one.

Fasolo just needs a couple of games to find his feet. He pretty much missed the entire 2018 season so first game back was always going to be a tough one.

Once McGovern returns to full fitness, we'll look a lot more dangerous in our forward half.

Fasolo atm may as well be classed as having Casboult in the side along side our 3 talls forward thats how much he contributed at ground level against Richmond .
Similar to Pickett last year needs atleast 4-6 proper reserves games to get up to speed imo .

 

[feffs93]

Honestly cant see where JSOS fits into the team now, I see him playing 5 games max this season pending injuries.

 

[thylacine60]

his injury was the worsest timing..........

 

[Eiffel 65]

i saw him grab his back after a marking attempt. Wouldnt be surprised if there is still a niggle there

I hope not. It will be a long season if that injury lingers for 22 rounds.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I’d love to use our first on Billings from the Saints. He is exactly what we need and I reckon he’d entertain coming if we have a promising season.

Would also love a FA midfielder to keep adding to our midfield stocks, of the names available Liberatore, Newnes and Sexton would all add something for us without coming at a massive cost. Obviously Coniglio if he’s willing to come. Targeting free agents seems a no brainer now we have all our young guys sewn up long term.

We should have a plethora of lower picks this year and with those we should target a much needed small forward/s.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Just scrolling through it now and noting some other changes:

- Pretty sure Samo was previously 180cm, they've now given him 2 extra cm
- Macreadie listed at 198cm when he was previously around the 195-196cm mark
- Cuningham now 185cm, was originally listed at 183cm

Probably took them with shoes on like basketballers do.
I don’t believe a lot of the players heights, I still remember Carrots adding two inches to his height as a joke and that’s what he was listed at.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

De Koning is interesting and as you say, should he become Kreuzers deserved successor, we'd be miles in front.

I'm glad we didn't try and find another ruckman last year and would again be glad should we not this year.
We really need to get a handle on just how good DeKoning can become first and if he does make for a starting AFL ruck-man, alternating with McKay (who will get stronger) we could have ourselves quite a potent ruck/forward duo.
I know that an 'if' is attached, but you can almost see it as more than just a mere possibility.

Find another ruck-man in 2020 if we have to, but let's allow organic growth in what we have right now and if Phillips does stay fit, I have no problems with going into 2020 with Kreuzer & Phillips with De Koning and at a distance, McKay developing.

At the moment we have three key ruckman in Krooz, Lobbe and AP, who's age profile don't match our midfield. In 3 or 4 years time when we're really hitting our straps, its likely that none of these will still be on our list....the youngest being AP at 30/31 and likely still injury prone.

DeKoning looks like he's becoming a young bull and will be around 22-23 when our mids are tearing the oppo to shreds. Hopefully he'll be the likely successor, but we desperately need a 2nd young ruck to develop as well while we still have Krooz and co on board. I'd actually be surprised if both AP and Lobbe are both on our list in 2020, it'll be one or the other.

One possibility could be to dangle our 1st rounder (with exchange of other picks) to WCE to coax Bailey Williams across, will be a gun. Although highly unlikely, they'd be desperate to get another high draft pick to trade to Cats in order to get Tim Kelly over, so SOS could potentially negotiate a good deal. Just a thought.

Of course the following year, there'll be a kid named Henry Walsh in the draft

 

[Blue and Blue]

At the moment we have three key ruckman in Krooz, Lobbe and AP, who's age profile don't match our midfield. In 3 or 4 years time when we're really hitting our straps, its likely that none of these will still be on our list....the youngest being AP at 30/31 and likely still injury prone.

DeKoning looks like he's becoming a young bull and will be around 22-23 when our mids are tearing the oppo to shreds. Hopefully he'll be the likely successor, but we desperately need a 2nd young ruck to develop as well while we still have Krooz and co on board. I'd actually be surprised if both AP and Lobbe are both on our list in 2020, it'll be one or the other.

One possibility could be to dangle our 1st rounder (with exchange of other picks) to WCE to coax Bailey Williams across, will be a gun. Although highly unlikely, they'd be desperate to get another high draft pick to trade to Cats in order to get Tim Kelly over, so SOS could potentially negotiate a good deal. Just a thought.

Of course the following year, there'll be a kid named Henry Walsh in the draft

I would think this fairly accurate. We are almost at that point to bring in a ruckman that cant get a game elsewhere. But younger then Lobbe was and better. All sides have done it on the road to sucess. Its the one position where the draft is rarely much help. But it will cost us.

 

[skadoosh]

Things I'd like to see the team develop over this season in no particular order:
- Tall forwards to learn how to work together, no more leading into the same space. Create decoy runs in the 50 to allow more space for the other talls.
- Small forwards to stay on the ground and crumb and spoilt balls or spilt marks. Continue with manic running and pressure in the forward 50
- Defenders must ensure they impact the contest if leaving their man, in no way should the ball fly over the top
- Midfielders to work both ways and to lower the eyes when delivering into the forward line. Kick into space to force the forwards to run. Only bomb it in as a last resort.
- Communication is vital out in the field. At no point should our player running with the ball be caught from behind. They must know when they are hot. And this leads onto putting on an effective shepherd. No half-hearted nudges. You take the opposition player out of the equation. Put them off balance. Spread your arms wide to physically block them.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Honestly cant see where JSOS fits into the team now, I see him playing 5 games max this season pending injuries.

Too many want to pigeon hole players. I can’t accept this statement for any of our players. Get out there and do your best. You’ll be rewarded with games. JSOS will play plenty of games this season.

 

[Arr0w]

Interesting JLT

Standouts:
Weitering (BOG for mine), SPS, Cuners, Walsh and Jones

Surprisedly Good: (For various reasons)
Thomas, Garlett, Setters, McKay, Newman ( off a little today)

Rusty:
Fish, Murphy, Plow, Ed ( please no more as a forward)

Building:
Dow

Ready to explode
McGovern

Amazing how much of this transferred

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Amazing how much of this transferred

wow, great call Arr0w.
Apart from SPS, who didn't have a standout game, and Murph who was 'surprisingly good', they are all ticks.
Dow especially we can see building, and by the end of the year could really have a breakout season.
Gov just settling into the team, will be a hard match up for the oppo during the year as Chuck and H hit their straps