Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Bamboo Harvester]

Didn't realise he beat Ed in the pre-season time trial! Dam he can seriously run.

Given they were supplement picks, SOS seems to have done well to land Gibbons and Cottrell. I don't see the posters questioning SOS' drafting giving him any credit for that, Gibbons has played every game and looks good.

So we have Cottrell who beat Ed in the time trial and Gibbons who is in the top handful for km's covered in the AFL...along with Walsh.
I like that we've brought in 3 endurance beasts.

Just a question if anyone can assist.

Gibbo has played all games for us this year, improving every game, and right now looks pretty likely to play until the end of the year.

My question is: can rookies play an unlimited number of games during the year? The answer is probably 'yes', but I remember a number of years back, * had a player named Damien Peverill who came in off the rookie list when they had a long term injury during the year. Played some great football, but had to go back into the magoo's when the injured player returned. I assume the rules have changed, but honestly don't know.

Anyone? Jimmae? Arr0w?

I gots to know...

 

[gbatman]

Hopefully we can get a hold of some of the more premium players out there.

The midfield needs some strong players capable of getting a lot of the footy. Ball winning is a real art but they also need to be able to kick and run. We don't need to add anymore slow or poor kicks. We need to add to Cripps and Walsh so it's going to take some real quality. We need to limit how many mids with deficiencies we carry and we carry a lot. Don't get enough of the ball, don't use it well enough, slow, don't tackle well and lack physicality etc.

I would be looking at mids that tick these boxes: Regularly gets 25 possessions plus, good disposal, not slow, strong body, hard at it. Bonus features would be also being a goal kicking mid and being 20-23 with these qualities.

Small forward, that is an art too. That ability to kick goals and crumb and get to the right spots at the right time is something special and finding players who can do this but also tackle is even rarer but this is the task ahead. I would say the requirements would be to kick at least a goal a game and apply good pressure. Bonus ability would be to be able to also find the footy a bit.

Here's a few I would chase...

Midfielders
Tim Taranto - GWS - Premium quality midfielder who gets a lot of it, tackles, runs fast, kicks goals. Victorian and out of contract next season. So would have to trade two first rounders to get. Ideal fit for our side. Only 21 years old and averages over 28 disposals. Should be our number one target IMO he's perfect for us.

Brayden Fiorini - GCS - Only 21 years old and averages over 28 disposals. Genuine ball winner. Tackles. Does all that. Would be an enormous get for us and would make a powerful ball winning midfield alongside Cripps and Walsh. He's a Victorian and out of contract next year.

Stephen Coniglio - GWS - 25 year old so he's a little older than some I've mentioned but still a good age for us. Averages over 27 disposals and is a damaging player who kicks goals. Former Western Australian but is a restricted free agent so we just have to get him to want to come and offer the right contract.

Ed Langdon - Fremantle - Averaging over 25 disposals this season. Been injury prone but is a former Victorian and out of contract this season. We don't hit our marks this season with the premium players he may well be worth asking the question. Only 23 years old too but we may end up overpaying is my worry.

Will Brodie - GCS - We've been linked to him before. 20 year old who averages over 24 disposals and lays tackles. Strong midfielder who can get it and is very young, ticks a lot of boxes. He's a Victorian and out of contract next season.

Jackson Hately - GWS - Bit from left field but we'd have to enquire if we don't get our targets. First round pick. Teenager who has played two games, averaged over 21 disposals and averages over 27 NEAFL disposals. I don't know much about him but fair chance he can play. South Australian but that's never stopped us. Out of contract next season

Forwards
Tom Papley - Sydney - I think he would be absolutely ideal for us. 22 years old, averages 1.8 goals per game, tackles, can find the footy and is a former Victorian who is out of contract next season. No idea what it would cost to get him to us but as I said he would be ideal for our side.

Jamie Elliott - Collingwood - He's 26 and injury prone so a little less desirable but he is a restricted free agent so available for just salary. Gun player when up and going and has had a reasonable season. Probably not keen to leave Collingwood but worth asking the question.

What we've got
Adelaide's first round pick. 2 third round picks. Future picks. Possible Priority Pick?

Hopefully Adelaide bomb out a bit, they don't have to bomb all the way out but I think we should be looking to trade future picks as well.

We might have players to trade. We have an excessive amount of key defenders. Casboult is proving himself. Jones has proven himself. Goddard is dominating the VFL. Weitering is playing well as is Marchbank. Macreadie is developing. Could we get back into the second round and perhaps the early second round with player and pick swaps?

I think Adelaide having our first round pick and us having theirs will hopefully become irrelevant. I think we will push really hard to trade it with another pick for someone good. Having such a poor season would not be helping at this stage though as will not having a coach.

We need to players to want to come to us, inspect our club and be presented with the best club with the best staff and best facilities they see when they come looking around Victoria. Unfortunately when the top players inspect the Victorian teams they look at the clubs with the superstar former players as assistants and see super impressive facilities and meet impressive coaches and with us I just don't know if we impress the better players, especially being last on the ladder. I think we might overcome that if we finish this season off strongly. Let's hope we can take the next steps and get the big names to chose us as they have with Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond.

In an ideal world we would trade our one or two third rounders and a player for a decent second round pick, trade our future second and current second for someone like Papley then trade two first round picks for one of the real premium midfielders then land Coniglio as a RFA.

I don't think we are too badly off going into next year's draft, I'd rather have a second round pick though, I think that is the one which really bites. I think we may also need Adelaide to drop down the ladder a bit but at this stage it might be alright. Time will tell. We just need players to chose us.

 

[F_therest]

Just a question if anyone can assist.

Gibbo has played all games for us this year, improving every game, and right now looks pretty likely to play until the end of the year.

My question is: can rookies play an unlimited number of games during the year? The answer is probably 'yes', but I remember a number of years back, * had a player named Damien Peverill who came in off the rookie list when they had a long term injury during the year. Played some great football, but had to go back into the magoo's when the injured player returned. I assume the rules have changed, but honestly don't know.

Anyone? Jimmae? Arr0w?

I gots to know...

Yeah rules have changed, they can play unlimited games.

 

[F_therest]

Gibbons was fantastic last week. Really pleased with his progression, will benefit from a greater midfield role and seems to be scoring goals with more ease now. Definitely a bonus with his massive work rate too.

Likewise, Cottrell grabbing 11 marks in the VFL is a testament to his work ethic. Moves beautifully around the ground, has put on some nice size too since coming across. Nailed two set shots from 50 metres on the weekend with great technique, not something we have a lot of in the senior team.

His disposal numbers are trending up and I'm looking for him to get into the 20s shortly. Wouldn't mind him being given some midfield minutes too, but he's probably slated for a wing at this stage in the VFL. He's showing promise for an extremely late rookie pick.

Looks like we went out and looked for guys with elite running ability and nice skills. Good picks.

Gee Gibbons a real surprise packet...the guy can seriously play. Endurance, work rate, a good kick on both feet, decent at roving packs and seems like a goal-kicker. And to think he was overlooked at last years national and rookie drafts yet again, poor guy.

 

[F_therest]

Hopefully we can get a hold of some of the more premium players out there.

The midfield needs some strong players capable of getting a lot of the footy. Ball winning is a real art but they also need to be able to kick and run. We don't need to add anymore slow or poor kicks. We need to add to Cripps and Walsh so it's going to take some real quality. We need to limit how many mids with deficiencies we carry and we carry a lot. Don't get enough of the ball, don't use it well enough, slow, don't tackle well and lack physicality etc.

I would be looking at mids that tick these boxes: Regularly gets 25 possessions plus, good disposal, not slow, strong body, hard at it. Bonus features would be also being a goal kicking mid and being 20-23 with these qualities.

Small forward, that is an art too. That ability to kick goals and crumb and get to the right spots at the right time is something special and finding players who can do this but also tackle is even rarer but this is the task ahead. I would say the requirements would be to kick at least a goal a game and apply good pressure. Bonus ability would be to be able to also find the footy a bit.

Here's a few I would chase...

Midfielders
Tim Taranto - GWS - Premium quality midfielder who gets a lot of it, tackles, runs fast, kicks goals. Victorian and out of contract next season. So would have to trade two first rounders to get. Ideal fit for our side. Only 21 years old and averages over 28 disposals. Should be our number one target IMO he's perfect for us.

Brayden Fiorini - GCS - Only 21 years old and averages over 28 disposals. Genuine ball winner. Tackles. Does all that. Would be an enormous get for us and would make a powerful ball winning midfield alongside Cripps and Walsh. He's a Victorian and out of contract next year.

Stephen Coniglio - GWS - 25 year old so he's a little older than some I've mentioned but still a good age for us. Averages over 27 disposals and is a damaging player who kicks goals. Former Western Australian but is a restricted free agent so we just have to get him to want to come and offer the right contract.

Ed Langdon - Fremantle - Averaging over 25 disposals this season. Been injury prone but is a former Victorian and out of contract this season. We don't hit our marks this season with the premium players he may well be worth asking the question. Only 23 years old too but we may end up overpaying is my worry.

Will Brodie - GCS - We've been linked to him before. 20 year old who averages over 24 disposals and lays tackles. Strong midfielder who can get it and is very young, ticks a lot of boxes. He's a Victorian and out of contract next season.

Jackson Hately - GWS - Bit from left field but we'd have to enquire if we don't get our targets. First round pick. Teenager who has played two games, averaged over 21 disposals and averages over 27 NEAFL disposals. I don't know much about him but fair chance he can play. South Australian but that's never stopped us. Out of contract next season

Forwards
Tom Papley - Sydney - I think he would be absolutely ideal for us. 22 years old, averages 1.8 goals per game, tackles, can find the footy and is a former Victorian who is out of contract next season. No idea what it would cost to get him to us but as I said he would be ideal for our side.

Jamie Elliott - Collingwood - He's 26 and injury prone so a little less desirable but he is a restricted free agent so available for just salary. Gun player when up and going and has had a reasonable season. Probably not keen to leave Collingwood but worth asking the question.

What we've got
Adelaide's first round pick. 2 third round picks. Future picks. Possible Priority Pick?

Hopefully Adelaide bomb out a bit, they don't have to bomb all the way out but I think we should be looking to trade future picks as well.

We might have players to trade. We have an excessive amount of key defenders. Casboult is proving himself. Jones has proven himself. Goddard is dominating the VFL. Weitering is playing well as is Marchbank. Macreadie is developing. Could we get back into the second round and perhaps the early second round with player and pick swaps?

I think Adelaide having our first round pick and us having theirs will hopefully become irrelevant. I think we will push really hard to trade it with another pick for someone good. Having such a poor season would not be helping at this stage though as will not having a coach.

We need to players to want to come to us, inspect our club and be presented with the best club with the best staff and best facilities they see when they come looking around Victoria. Unfortunately when the top players inspect the Victorian teams they look at the clubs with the superstar former players as assistants and see super impressive facilities and meet impressive coaches and with us I just don't know if we impress the better players, especially being last on the ladder. I think we might overcome that if we finish this season off strongly. Let's hope we can take the next steps and get the big names to chose us as they have with Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond.

In an ideal world we would trade our one or two third rounders and a player for a decent second round pick, trade our future second and current second for someone like Papley then trade two first round picks for one of the real premium midfielders then land Coniglio as a RFA.

I don't think we are too badly off going into next year's draft, I'd rather have a second round pick though, I think that is the one which really bites. I think we may also need Adelaide to drop down the ladder a bit but at this stage it might be alright. Time will tell. We just need players to chose us.

Not interesting in Hately or Brodie tbh. Don't think we need yet another young, inexperienced mid like these guys...Brodie isn't even getting regular games for GC somehow.

Also not keen on Elliott due to his constant injury issues. Seriously, the guy is injured again right now. He just doesn't get on the park enough.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Gee Gibbons a real surprise packet...the guy can seriously play. Endurance, work rate, a good kick on both feet, decent at roving packs and seems like a goal-kicker. And to think he was overlooked at last years national and rookie drafts yet again, poor guy.

Absolutely...and looks like he has leadership on the ground as well...you often see him being the voice as the forwards congregate after a goal has been kicked.
Pretty important for a young group.
I've loved what he's given us this year.

 

[Pafloyul]

Hopefully those clinging to the Pickett dream can now see we really really need help in our small forward stocks!

Never base any decision on desperation, you are just asking for trouble.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Don't forget that that have the big Yankee as well, so if Grundy cops an injury, they'll just shuffle him into the ruck, and Reid up forward. Grundy's not going anywhere...when you look at the Woods players out of contract at the end of this year, there's a lot (including Wells) who won't be offered a contract, so they should have space in the cap.

I was at the NB's vs Woods game earlier this year, and Lynch was incredibly impressive....however, I've checked through their results since that game, and he hasn't been mentioned in the match summaries or best players.

So he may either be a one hit wonder, or SOS has told him to play dead the rest of the year with the commitment we'll pick him up at a bargain price. Very unlikely but I love a conspiracy theory

Lynch had missed 1-2 weeks due to a concussion a few rounds ago... Nothing bad though...

 

[CFC18]

After Pickett quitting, being sacked or whatever people want to call it, im again questioning the timing/decisions being made at our club.

Just a few weeks ago we had the mid season draft, a fantastic opportunity to bring in 2nd tier players or overlooked youngsters and having 4 months of playing and training to view if they have what it takes to make it at the next level.

Why did the club wait until now to do this? A few weeks earlier and we give ourselves an opportunity to have a look at anyone else, if it didn't work out then they get cut at seasons end but at least we gave ourselves a shot. I don't believe that the club learnt anything they didn't already know about Jarrod in the last few weeks.

Seems quite amateurish to be honest.

Just to repeat something i posted in another thread.

Carlton carried a spare list spot over in to 2019 in preparation for the mid season draft, we had Doch go down with a long term LTI and we had Bugg retire. That is 3 list spots. Two were filled by Gibbons and Cottrel and the last by Deluca.

According to the mid season draft rules, Picket could have been placed on the long term injury list, allowing us to pick another player, not really sure why we didn't give this a go and with his retirement makes it an even stranger decision.

These are players we could have grabbed in the rookie draft, and we already have Goddard, Gibbons, Cottrell and Deluca. Chances are anyone we have our eye on will still be available to us late in the national draft, and we will have more data to make an informed decision without wasting 70k.

 

[gbatman]

Not interesting in Hately or Brodie tbh. Don't think we need yet another young, inexperienced mid like these guys...Brodie isn't even getting regular games for GC somehow.

Also not keen on Elliott due to his constant injury issues. Seriously, the guy is injured again right now. He just doesn't get on the park enough.

I think Brodie definitely gets a game in our side. It's a funny one why he isn't getting regular games. They have some good ball winners. I think he's going to come into his better years from next season and could potentially become a pretty good player, maybe not a star but handy.

Would definitely have him low on our list though. Same with Hately but Hately might be still be better than using Adelaide's first round pick in the draft if we can't pick up any talent with it. He will probably develop into a good strong ball winner.

Age is not relevant, when they mature is relevant. If a player is getting 25-30 possessions as a 20 year old I would rather them than someone doing the same who is 24 or 25 years old.

Elliott walks into our side. The question all comes down to his price, willingness which you would thing would be a no and how confident we are he can stay fit.

 

[La Dispute]

Brodie just had a career game and wasn’t far behind McCluggage in his draft year before sliding quickly in the month leading up to the draft.

He’s a good footballer, who’s in the right age bracket for us though, if he’d want to join. The Paul (?) Brodie connection is a decent thing to have.

Kind of spells the end for Kennedy though.

 

[therubbernub]

After Pickett quitting, being sacked or whatever people want to call it, im again questioning the timing/decisions being made at our club.

Just a few weeks ago we had the mid season draft, a fantastic opportunity to bring in 2nd tier players or overlooked youngsters and having 4 months of playing and training to view if they have what it takes to make it at the next level.

Why did the club wait until now to do this? A few weeks earlier and we give ourselves an opportunity to have a look at anyone else, if it didn't work out then they get cut at seasons end but at least we gave ourselves a shot. I don't believe that the club learnt anything they didn't already know about Jarrod in the last few weeks.

Seems quite amateurish to be honest.

Just to repeat something i posted in another thread.

Carlton carried a spare list spot over in to 2019 in preparation for the mid season draft, we had Doch go down with a long term LTI and we had Bugg retire. That is 3 list spots. Two were filled by Gibbons and Cottrel and the last by Deluca.

According to the mid season draft rules, Picket could have been placed on the long term injury list, allowing us to pick another player, not really sure why we didn't give this a go and with his retirement makes it an even stranger decision.

Could'nt agree more. Why? The more selections whether they are ND , rookie draft or mid season, the better your chances are to pick up a best 22 player. Look at Gibbons- now best 22. FMD its not that hard.
We talk about a disconnect with our forward line. How about our admin start connecting a few dots... or could it be that SOS doesnt believe that talent exists in the MSD

 

[ferrisb]

In his first season, dow was averaging better than Dangerfield (in his 2nd season) in almost all stats. This includes disposal efficiency (and danger handballed more).

In his second season (so far), dow is averaging better than danger (3rd season) in almost every category once again (including disposal efficiency). This is despite the fact that in his third season danger stacked on 5kg and increased his minutes per game by 25%.

That's something we potentially have to look forward to in Dow's development next year. Right now dow is only just behind Dangerfield in his 4th! season (danger broke out in his 5th). I think it's safe to say he's tracking alright.

Paddy Dowgerfield...

 

[ferrisb]

Gibbs dropped again. Wonder if we'd consider throwing him a lifeline if he was willing to move back to Melbourne. Wouldn't cost much.

#ReReleaseGibbs

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Brodie not getting games doesn’t have much to go with ability. It’s just the way GC want to develop players, he obviously just hasn’t been doing the non negotiable’s.

 

[Faz 2000]

Brodie is a fascinating one. He can’t kick for s**t. There’s clearly some big holes in his game. Yet also just as clear, from the weekend for example, he can really find the pill. I’d think a team should be making room for him, but I’m not sure it’s us.

 

[Accidental genius]

Gee Gibbons a real surprise packet...the guy can seriously play. Endurance, work rate, a good kick on both feet, decent at roving packs and seems like a goal-kicker. And to think he was overlooked at last years national and rookie drafts yet again, poor guy.

....can tackle too

 

[Soapy V]

Not interesting in Hately or Brodie tbh. Don't think we need yet another young, inexperienced mid like these guys...Brodie isn't even getting regular games for GC somehow.

I’d take Hately in a heartbeat. I rated him highly in last years draft. Big body who could step straight in. In most other sides he’d be playing already.

As for Brodie he has some weaknesses but if he wanted to come to us and don’t cost the much I’d do it. He’s ready to play

 

[FRUMPY]

After Pickett quitting, being sacked or whatever people want to call it, im again questioning the timing/decisions being made at our club.

Just a few weeks ago we had the mid season draft, a fantastic opportunity to bring in 2nd tier players or overlooked youngsters and having 4 months of playing and training to view if they have what it takes to make it at the next level.

Why did the club wait until now to do this? A few weeks earlier and we give ourselves an opportunity to have a look at anyone else, if it didn't work out then they get cut at seasons end but at least we gave ourselves a shot. I don't believe that the club learnt anything they didn't already know about Jarrod in the last few weeks.

Seems quite amateurish to be honest.

Just to repeat something i posted in another thread.

Carlton carried a spare list spot over in to 2019 in preparation for the mid season draft, we had Doch go down with a long term LTI and we had Bugg retire. That is 3 list spots. Two were filled by Gibbons and Cottrel and the last by Deluca.

According to the mid season draft rules, Picket could have been placed on the long term injury list, allowing us to pick another player, not really sure why we didn't give this a go and with his retirement makes it an even stranger decision.

What superstar did we miss out on? Definitely worth the tears.

Whose to say we haven't been trying to delist him but he wouldn't agree to it? Whose to say all this just hasn't come to a head the last week? Why not cut more players who are not going to be around next year.....oh wait, they have contracts - like Pickett.

Which other club cut a player to get access in the mid-season draft? So many amateurish clubs

 

[Soapy V]

Hopefully those clinging to the Pickett dream can now see we really really need help in our small forward stocks!

Was Pickett a small forward? Always thought his best spot was wing

I think Martin will be a massive upgrade

 

[Prem17]

Gibbs dropped again. Wonder if we'd consider throwing him a lifeline if he was willing to move back to Melbourne. Wouldn't cost much.

He's not even best 22. Late 3rd rounder!

 

[Coops93]

Gee Gibbons a real surprise packet...the guy can seriously play. Endurance, work rate, a good kick on both feet, decent at roving packs and seems like a goal-kicker. And to think he was overlooked at last years national and rookie drafts yet again, poor guy.

I wonder if Bolton being sacked was the best thing for his career. I know Bolts played a big role in him just getting a chance, but nearly everyone has been asking for him to play on the ball, but was stubbornly forced to play small forward. Low and behold he spends a fair amount of time on ball and he has comfortably his best game at AFL level. If Bolton is still there he probably stays up forward, continues to have mediocre to poor returns, and maybe gets delisted.

That aside, I agree with everything you said. He's got a bit of x-factor and creativity, has good acceleration (first 5-10 metres is gread, long speed is average), can kick quick goals, (one on the weekend from 40 out was a good example, got the ball kicked it as quick as you like for goal) and my favourite thing is he kicks both feet. Very few guys in our team can do that.

 

[Coona Blues]

Was Pickett a small forward? Always thought his best spot was wing

I think Martin will be a massive upgrade

Drums keep beating Martin, is a very unique player. Predominantly high half forward, but not a great shot at goal. Can play wing and spent a couple of seasons playing plenty off half back. Excellent field kick and can go through the guts if necessary. Remains fairly slight despite having plenty of time in the system.

Not easily categorised or compared to others. Different style of player, but reads as a Shaun Burgoyne type who can fill the gaps wherever needed, but certainly projects as a playmaker. IMO would need to find a genuine goalkicking pressure forward type as well, but would suit our needs admirably.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Brodie just had a career game and wasn’t far behind McCluggage in his draft year before sliding quickly in the month leading up to the draft.

He’s a good footballer, who’s in the right age bracket for us though, if he’d want to join. The Paul (?) Brodie connection is a decent thing to have.

Kind of spells the end for Kennedy though.

I had him quite a distance behind McCluggage

 

[DangerousD]

Doch wasn't placed on an LTI list, Pickett was....which is why we only had the single pick in the mid season draft.
Regardless of his departure today, we received Deluca as a result of Pickett being placed on the list, so his subsequent departure then became irrelevant from a list management perspective.

Sorry mate, not true.
There are numerous articles dating back to December last year that outline our vacant list spots and who filled them.

Pickett was not one of them.