Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread #2

Superkoops

Premiership Player
May 7, 2009
3,049
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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
Tobe Watson? Is around 190/191cm but still needs to add some size to his frame but developing reasonably well at Peel. Was forced to carry the defence at times last year and played FB quite a bit.
 

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FreoRicci

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Very happy tbh.
Hill was essentially a Mayne compensation pick. What we got in return to trading him.. priceless.
Don’t forget if Valente and Sturt can get a full pre season, we have significant youth depth.
 

Puregold

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Jul 29, 2009
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No round 3, 4 or 5 pick next year. Reckon we will try to get a pick in before Western and Walker and that may be it.

Great young list going into next year. Will be difficult to find a way to open up 3-4 list spots that we will need for 2020's draft especially with some of our contracting. In my eyes From the rookie list: North and Dixon are on very shaky ground. Watson will need to find something special to see him continue into 2021. O'Reilly and Carter will probably be given time to develop further.
From the main list:
Crowden, Colyer and Giro are extremely lucky to be contracted for 2021.
Shultz, Switta Banfield, Duman and Bewley will need improvement and need to be showing that they are in the top 25 at the club in order to be guaranteed a contract for 2021
Meek needs a couple of league games to ensure he gets through
And Mundy must want to retire. If he is keen to play on and plays as well as he has been he should get another year.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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Oct 16, 2015
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No round 3, 4 or 5 pick next year. Reckon we will try to get a pick in before Western and Walker and that may be it.

Great young list going into next year. Will be difficult to find a way to open up 3-4 list spots that we will need for 2020's draft especially with some of our contracting. In my eyes From the rookie list: North and Dixon are on very shaky ground. Watson will need to find something special to see him continue into 2021. O'Reilly and Carter will probably be given time to develop further.
From the main list:
Crowden, Colyer and Giro are extremely lucky to be contracted for 2021.
Shultz, Switta Banfield, Duman and Bewley will need improvement and need to be showing that they are in the top 25 at the club in order to be guaranteed a contract for 2021
Meek needs a couple of league games to ensure he gets through
And Mundy must want to retire. If he is keen to play on and plays as well as he has been he should get another year.
From that list it sounds like finding 3 or 4 list spots will be quite doable!
 

Superkoops

Premiership Player
May 7, 2009
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Some decisions on rookies - Whether to upgrade.
Carter, Dixon, Watson, O’Reilly, North

We usually go 3-4 picks in most drafts and to be honest you don’t want to bat too much deeper than that.
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
I agree.

I was disappointed that we didn’t leave a rookie spot to be filled by a mature ruck or key back if we got an injury.
 

Dockeroo

Rookie
Nov 1, 2019
32
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Thrilled with the talent we have picked up. But some of the pick trading we have done has been woeful. This has really limited our hand next season. I’m not sure who is responsible for these trading decisions but some of them absolutely stank the place out. Port picked up our second rounder in 2020 (projects as a early 20’s pick to other teams given we are ranked as one of the bottom teams in the league by most other clubs). Whether we do end up near the foot of the ladder or not next season, the fact that most other sides see us as a bottom 4 or 5 side in 2020 should have meant out picks in 2020 had more value than say Richmond or GWS. Instead we got picks 52 and 55 for potentially pick 20-24. What a rubbish trade that was.
Not bidding on Tom Green was another error costing us valuable points in 2020. Got to be ruthless at this level - GWS were always going to match no matter where the bid came. Now we have an even bigger deficit than they do in 2020!!
The Adelaide/Melbourne trade was also pretty imbalanced given what we coughed up to move from 10 to 8, but it wasn’t as bad as the port Adelaide live trade after the Henry bid. We are always told you lost points to trade up but you gain points to trade down. We lost points in both scenarios!
What was clear during the draft was the massive imbalance in trades between some clubs. The likes of Geelong, the crows and port simply cleaned up for next years draft - (port also got a 2020 second rounder to move back from 22 to 23 - what a steal!).
As for the suns - well what a joke, don’t get me started. High Draft picks are like loose change to those guys!
None of these imbalanced trades would ever occur outside of live trading.
A proper experienced list manager at live trading has the potential to make major inroads for any club that is switched on enough. You’d expect those imbalanced trades to be less frequent in a couple of years as clubs cop on to the fact that there is major opportunity here.
 

theGav56

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What appears fair and what can be done are two very different things. Most clubs got extorted in some way if they needed another clubs help. We will be doing the same thing when our time comes.
Yes I agree, but we should have bid on Green at the Serong pick. I mean, imagine if they passed; would be awesome. And if they don't pass, then we have insulated our first round next year.

Everything doesn't turn out how you want it on draft day. There are swings and roundabouts. But this was definitely an opportunity for the club to control the outcome. Carlton bidding should have been anticipated, and the idea that they "should" have bid on Green before Henry is irrelevant. We had the opportunity to take that out of the equation.
 

Bring back Drum

Super Coach
Jul 8, 2019
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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
Yep, well said.
With all due respect to Pina, it’s a great opportunity for him but he’s a long way back in the pecking order, we should have added Chad Pearson.
He would be chance to play if key back went down, Pina is no hope to play if we lose a mid.
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 11, 2011
8,258
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Thrilled with the talent we have picked up. But some of the pick trading we have done has been woeful. This has really limited our hand next season. I’m not sure who is responsible for these trading decisions but some of them absolutely stank the place out. Port picked up our second rounder in 2020 (projects as a early 20’s pick to other teams given we are ranked as one of the bottom teams in the league by most other clubs). Whether we do end up near the foot of the ladder or not next season, the fact that most other sides see us as a bottom 4 or 5 side in 2020 should have meant out picks in 2020 had more value than say Richmond or GWS. Instead we got picks 52 and 55 for potentially pick 20-24. What a rubbish trade that was.
Not bidding on Tom Green was another error costing us valuable points in 2020. Got to be ruthless at this level - GWS were always going to match no matter where the bid came. Now we have an even bigger deficit than they do in 2020!!
The Adelaide/Melbourne trade was also pretty imbalanced given what we coughed up to move from 10 to 8, but it wasn’t as bad as the port Adelaide live trade after the Henry bid. We are always told you lost points to trade up but you gain points to trade down. We lost points in both scenarios!
What was clear during the draft was the massive imbalance in trades between some clubs. The likes of Geelong, the crows and port simply cleaned up for next years draft - (port also got a 2020 second rounder to move back from 22 to 23 - what a steal!).
As for the suns - well what a joke, don’t get me started. High Draft picks are like loose change to those guys!
None of these imbalanced trades would ever occur outside of live trading.
A proper experienced list manager at live trading has the potential to make major inroads for any club that is switched on enough. You’d expect those imbalanced trades to be less frequent in a couple of years as clubs cop on to the fact that there is major opportunity here.
I really like what we did.

Bidding on Thomas would have net us very little.

While, I would have downgraded our pick 10 ie trading to the Suns for picks 15,20. Upgrading the pick worked

Also, Demons could have bided on Henry.
 

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eastfreo75

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Yes I agree, but we should have bid on Green at the Serong pick. I mean, imagine if they passed; would be awesome. And if they don't pass, then we have insulated our first round next year.

Everything doesn't turn out how you want it on draft day. There are swings and roundabouts. But this was definitely an opportunity for the club to control the outcome. Carlton bidding should have been anticipated, and the idea that they "should" have bid on Green before Henry is irrelevant. We had the opportunity to take that out of the equation.
Good will is gold.

Having picks 7,8,9 is pretty romantic and all the picks felt great.

Unless it’s a no brainer I wouldn’t bid, it pisses off the player you pick next.
 

Dockeroo

Rookie
Nov 1, 2019
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There should be some opportunities over the next few seasons to trade for some of the WA players than may want to come back to Perth, if they are doing well. Regarding the live trades, I accept that we were shafted by port due to circumstances we were in, but surely the trade should have been lined up well before then? The question is - did we get a shit deal for that 2020 second because we were caught on the hop and didn’t expect the bid? I reckon we were and we had to scramble for whoever would trade with us than at that stage.
 

apuchar

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It's one contingency that they hadn't thought of it seems. Or we just didn't want him. Someone should have bid on Green, if he was truly as good as some have suggested.

As is typical for Freo. Henry's value couldn't have been in a worse place for us and we had to jerk everything around, to first get him, and also get a bit of a discount. We got three top ten talents, but it was expensive.
Western, next year should fall in a sweet spot.
.
 

apuchar

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There should be some opportunities over the next few seasons to trade for some of the WA players than may want to come back to Perth, if they are doing well. Regarding the live trades, I accept that we were shafted by port due to circumstances we were in, but surely the trade should have been lined up well before then? The question is - did we get a shit deal for that 2020 second because we were caught on the hop and didn’t expect the bid? I reckon we were and we had to scramble for whoever would trade with us than at that stage.
We have been talking to clubs since the end of trade period.
 

blue shark

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Aug 15, 2009
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What appears fair and what can be done are two very different things. Most clubs got extorted in some way if they needed another clubs help. We will be doing the same thing when our time comes.
You bank top ten picks when you can, and having an established relationship with GWS will help when Hill wants to
come home.
Honestly It worked for WC once with Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan, still missed Kelly😀
But all clubs had the chance with those two previously, that's another story.
WC 2018 picks of O Niell, Foley, Williams in the second rounds doesn't exactly spell success?
This was the year to have second round picks though, even still 3 top ten picks is first place.
Better to reflect on how many WA boys got drafted, and who will want to return?
 

BlueE

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Oct 12, 2017
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You bank top ten picks when you can, and having an established relationship with GWS will help when Hill wants to
come home.
Honestly It worked for WC once with Oscar Allen and Liam Ryan, still missed Kelly😀
But all clubs had the chance with those two previously, that's another story.
WC 2018 picks of O Niell, Foley, Williams in the second rounds doesn't exactly spell success?
This was the year to have second round picks though, even still 3 top ten picks is first place.
Better to reflect on how many WA boys got drafted, and who will want to return?
Worked with wee Willie as well, at least for a year but that's all they needed to get a Premiership. 3 out 4 ain't bad.

Seriously, have you seen Williams play?? He was a steal and future star Fwd/Ruck or other way around.

Happy to see so many WA boys drafted and not sure of the go home factor compared to Vic Metro boys. Someone might have stats?
 

Danny82

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I think it is very hard to critique the trading without knowing all the options available. We are just speculating on what clubs may have accepted. What we saw was clubs pay a massive premium to move up the draft.

With the port trade, im sure all clubs were canvassed in advance what they would trade for 2020 2nd. Clearly port was the best offer.

We could have downgraded pick 8 or 10. I’d still much prefer a top ten pick.
 

blue shark

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Worked with wee Willie as well, at least for a year but that's all they needed to get a Premiership. 3 out 4 ain't bad.

Seriously, have you seen Williams play?? He was a steal and future star Fwd/Ruck or other way around.

Happy to see so many WA boys drafted and not sure of the go home factor compared to Vic Metro boys. Someone might have stats?
Worked with wee Willie as well, at least for a year but that's all they needed to get a Premiership. 3 out 4 ain't bad.

Seriously, have you seen Williams play?? He was a steal and future star Fwd/Ruck or other way around.

Happy to see so many WA boys drafted and not sure of the go home factor compared to Vic Metro boys. Someone might have stats?
That's the thing though we ensured we got Henry, as best as possible, instead of maybe. Imagine if WC had done
better ensuring Kelly?
They would of absolutely smashed it this year on and of the field.
Henry"s such a good character another Coniglio?
 

Dockeroo

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Henry looks very slight to me just yet. I hope we don’t do a Melbourne circa 2009 and just dump him in, jack watts style. He may not play any AFL football next season to be honest. Serong and Young are bigger bodies and probably more ready for 2020.
Excited to see Sturt and Valente in action this year though. Still a bit concerned about Valentes injury issues though, someone said the other day that he was having to re-learn a new running style due to his groin problems..
 

Scham

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How heavy was Liam Ryan when WC drafted him? And what was he when he made his debut?

I personally don’t think Henry’s size is an issue, he has other attributes that will help him get around it.
 

Superkoops

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Henry looks very slight to me just yet. I hope we don’t do a Melbourne circa 2009 and just dump him in, jack watts style. He may not play any AFL football next season to be honest. Serong and Young are bigger bodies and probably more ready for 2020.
Excited to see Sturt and Valente in action this year though. Still a bit concerned about Valentes injury issues though, someone said the other day that he was having to re-learn a new running style due to his groin problems..
Ole mate on the radio station reckons Wilson’s surgery involves a 10-12 week recovery. He is about 2 weeks or so in. Young a good replacement for Wilson if he is still working his way back into the season.

Ole mate cracked me up though he said he can’t believe the AFL allowed us to match the bid on Henry with a deficit of about 700. It’s only -265 and GWS is around -256.

Otherwise Serong is very likely - Bell already talking him up to start half forward with stints in the midfield. I’m expecting we’ll see some forward time for our 2018 top draftee Sturt as you say.

Henry maybe in the back end. I’d be happy if Valente gets a good solid block at WAFL and puts himself in the frame for selection in the second half of the year.
 

Superkoops

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How heavy was Liam Ryan when WC drafted him? And what was he when he made his debut?

I personally don’t think Henry’s size is an issue, he has other attributes that will help him get around it.
Henry will be exciting to watch at Peel.

A forward line potentially involving (at times) Cam McCarthy, Sturt and Henry.
 

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