Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread #2

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rgauci

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What’s this about?

We just swapped existing pick from 2018 ND no futures??

Pushed 34 up to 30 and pushed 41 back (trade with WB). What I’ve seen of Valente is promising but certainly needs to get his body sorted. Bloke is quality - leadership material.

Many of the players, coaches and S&C have talked about a real shift in PS training over past few seasons in that the Pre-Christmas block is all about preparation for Jan/Feb.

Training watchers have noted very individual training programs and a large rehab group. Expect this to continue throughout Dec. re-evaluate this and Valente in January 2020.

No futures were burned in his trade.
my mistake
 

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poshman

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I choose to look at it that we are going into 2020 with an additional five first round draft picks.
Acres, Aish, Young, Serong, Henry
I see it as this plus Sturt as we didn't get to see him last year. Very happy with that lot!
 

wayToGo_

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I choose to look at it that we are going into 2020 with an additional five first round draft picks.
Acres, Aish, Young, Serong, Henry
Not sure we can claim that :) It would make Conca an extra first rounder the year before as well.

But I do think people thinking pick #6 by itself for Brad Hill would have been better are forgetting we've now got both Acres and Aish (both former 1st round selections) on top of 3 top 10 picks.

I certainly don't think we've smashed this draft period trade wise (it has been a bit messy). But from an end outcome p.o.v. it kind of feels like we have smashed it by adding 5 quality players (and hopefully some good depth to come inc Cat Bs).

If we can get Hogan, Sturt and Valente all humming post Christmas that's a lot of quality to add into our selection mix as well. Plus predicting Cerra to have a break out year playing in the midfield finally. Less injuries and we play finals imo plus Peel do as well and give Subiaco some actual competition again.
 

Alfonz

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Bell said we would be doing a lot more tomorrow. Also something about preparing our picks for next year
I would be interested to know how many chess moves ahead they plan. Because it seems like many of our trades are just done in isolation, and then we worry about the next thing later. Maybe that's the simplest/best way to get things done, but also seems there have been a fair few junk picks tacked onto trades unnecessarily. I feel like we could have done all our trades and kept a full suite for 2020 and had more flexibility.
 

apuchar

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I would be interested to know how many chess moves ahead they plan. Because it seems like many of our trades are just done in isolation, and then we worry about the next thing later. Maybe that's the simplest/best way to get things done, but also seems there have been a fair few junk picks tacked onto trades unnecessarily. I feel like we could have done all our trades and kept a full suite for 2020 and had more flexibility.
They clearly decided they wanted two inside the top 10 before Henry. Quality before quantity. The fact that they took Serong before Flanders suggests that they believe Serong is a top talent and we all agree on Young. They were right about the Henry bid, to be fair.
 

Monument Hills

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I'm a big picture guy. I for one am not looking at the points, trade numbers, etc.. Therefore:

Out:
  • Brad Hill
  • Ed Langdon
  • Ballas (ret.)
  • Sandi (ret.)
  • Kersten
  • Jones
  • Bennell
  • Nyhuis (rook)
In:
  • Aish
  • Acres
  • Young
  • Serong
  • Henry
Hill was very good and a big loss, but Sandi can't play forever, and Bennell was a Ferrari permanently up on the blocks, so all in all, very happy at the changover

Glad for the improvement in quality across the list the past few years. I remember when Ross was still going on 6PR in the early years consistently mentioning that we were very short on first round quality (compared to other teams) but did the best with what we had.

Now we are starting to have quality across the first 22 at least. Finally can move on from being back room brawlers. Very pleased.
 

Bring back Drum

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I'm a big picture guy. I for one am not looking at the points, trade numbers, etc.. Therefore:

Out:
  • Brad Hill
  • Ed Langdon
  • Ballas (ret.)
  • Sandi (ret.)
  • Kersten
  • Jones
  • Bennell
  • Nyhuis (rook)
In:
  • Aish
  • Acres
  • Young
  • Serong
  • Henry
Hill was very good and a big loss, but Sandi can't play forever, and Bennell was a Ferrari permanently up on the blocks, so all in all, very happy at the changover

Glad for the improvement in quality across the list the past few years. I remember when Ross was still going on 6PR in the early years consistently mentioning that we were very short on first round quality (compared to other teams) but did the best with what we had.

Now we are starting to have quality across the first 22 at least. Finally can move on from being back room brawlers. Very pleased.
Hopefully our best & most important in is Justin Longmuir.
 

Joose

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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
 

Superkoops

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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
Tobe Watson? Is around 190/191cm but still needs to add some size to his frame but developing reasonably well at Peel. Was forced to carry the defence at times last year and played FB quite a bit.
 

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FreoRicci

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Very happy tbh.
Hill was essentially a Mayne compensation pick. What we got in return to trading him.. priceless.
Don’t forget if Valente and Sturt can get a full pre season, we have significant youth depth.
 

Puregold

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No round 3, 4 or 5 pick next year. Reckon we will try to get a pick in before Western and Walker and that may be it.

Great young list going into next year. Will be difficult to find a way to open up 3-4 list spots that we will need for 2020's draft especially with some of our contracting. In my eyes From the rookie list: North and Dixon are on very shaky ground. Watson will need to find something special to see him continue into 2021. O'Reilly and Carter will probably be given time to develop further.
From the main list:
Crowden, Colyer and Giro are extremely lucky to be contracted for 2021.
Shultz, Switta Banfield, Duman and Bewley will need improvement and need to be showing that they are in the top 25 at the club in order to be guaranteed a contract for 2021
Meek needs a couple of league games to ensure he gets through
And Mundy must want to retire. If he is keen to play on and plays as well as he has been he should get another year.
 

Johnny Dalmas

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No round 3, 4 or 5 pick next year. Reckon we will try to get a pick in before Western and Walker and that may be it.

Great young list going into next year. Will be difficult to find a way to open up 3-4 list spots that we will need for 2020's draft especially with some of our contracting. In my eyes From the rookie list: North and Dixon are on very shaky ground. Watson will need to find something special to see him continue into 2021. O'Reilly and Carter will probably be given time to develop further.
From the main list:
Crowden, Colyer and Giro are extremely lucky to be contracted for 2021.
Shultz, Switta Banfield, Duman and Bewley will need improvement and need to be showing that they are in the top 25 at the club in order to be guaranteed a contract for 2021
Meek needs a couple of league games to ensure he gets through
And Mundy must want to retire. If he is keen to play on and plays as well as he has been he should get another year.
From that list it sounds like finding 3 or 4 list spots will be quite doable!
 

Superkoops

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Some decisions on rookies - Whether to upgrade.
Carter, Dixon, Watson, O’Reilly, North

We usually go 3-4 picks in most drafts and to be honest you don’t want to bat too much deeper than that.
 

eastfreo75

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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
I agree.

I was disappointed that we didn’t leave a rookie spot to be filled by a mature ruck or key back if we got an injury.
 

Dockeroo

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Thrilled with the talent we have picked up. But some of the pick trading we have done has been woeful. This has really limited our hand next season. I’m not sure who is responsible for these trading decisions but some of them absolutely stank the place out. Port picked up our second rounder in 2020 (projects as a early 20’s pick to other teams given we are ranked as one of the bottom teams in the league by most other clubs). Whether we do end up near the foot of the ladder or not next season, the fact that most other sides see us as a bottom 4 or 5 side in 2020 should have meant out picks in 2020 had more value than say Richmond or GWS. Instead we got picks 52 and 55 for potentially pick 20-24. What a rubbish trade that was.
Not bidding on Tom Green was another error costing us valuable points in 2020. Got to be ruthless at this level - GWS were always going to match no matter where the bid came. Now we have an even bigger deficit than they do in 2020!!
The Adelaide/Melbourne trade was also pretty imbalanced given what we coughed up to move from 10 to 8, but it wasn’t as bad as the port Adelaide live trade after the Henry bid. We are always told you lost points to trade up but you gain points to trade down. We lost points in both scenarios!
What was clear during the draft was the massive imbalance in trades between some clubs. The likes of Geelong, the crows and port simply cleaned up for next years draft - (port also got a 2020 second rounder to move back from 22 to 23 - what a steal!).
As for the suns - well what a joke, don’t get me started. High Draft picks are like loose change to those guys!
None of these imbalanced trades would ever occur outside of live trading.
A proper experienced list manager at live trading has the potential to make major inroads for any club that is switched on enough. You’d expect those imbalanced trades to be less frequent in a couple of years as clubs cop on to the fact that there is major opportunity here.
 

theGav56

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What appears fair and what can be done are two very different things. Most clubs got extorted in some way if they needed another clubs help. We will be doing the same thing when our time comes.
Yes I agree, but we should have bid on Green at the Serong pick. I mean, imagine if they passed; would be awesome. And if they don't pass, then we have insulated our first round next year.

Everything doesn't turn out how you want it on draft day. There are swings and roundabouts. But this was definitely an opportunity for the club to control the outcome. Carlton bidding should have been anticipated, and the idea that they "should" have bid on Green before Henry is irrelevant. We had the opportunity to take that out of the equation.
 

Bring back Drum

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In my view we have 2 list gaps.

We only have 2 specialist key backs - Hamling and Pearce - with Cox and Logue as backups. This leaves the club very vulnerable if one of the first two go down which, with our injury history, is a monte.

Secondly we have only two specialist rucks with Lobb as the backup. Once again we are vulnerable to injury.

While I like all players we have gotten in the balance is still not right.
Yep, well said.
With all due respect to Pina, it’s a great opportunity for him but he’s a long way back in the pecking order, we should have added Chad Pearson.
He would be chance to play if key back went down, Pina is no hope to play if we lose a mid.
 

eastfreo75

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Thrilled with the talent we have picked up. But some of the pick trading we have done has been woeful. This has really limited our hand next season. I’m not sure who is responsible for these trading decisions but some of them absolutely stank the place out. Port picked up our second rounder in 2020 (projects as a early 20’s pick to other teams given we are ranked as one of the bottom teams in the league by most other clubs). Whether we do end up near the foot of the ladder or not next season, the fact that most other sides see us as a bottom 4 or 5 side in 2020 should have meant out picks in 2020 had more value than say Richmond or GWS. Instead we got picks 52 and 55 for potentially pick 20-24. What a rubbish trade that was.
Not bidding on Tom Green was another error costing us valuable points in 2020. Got to be ruthless at this level - GWS were always going to match no matter where the bid came. Now we have an even bigger deficit than they do in 2020!!
The Adelaide/Melbourne trade was also pretty imbalanced given what we coughed up to move from 10 to 8, but it wasn’t as bad as the port Adelaide live trade after the Henry bid. We are always told you lost points to trade up but you gain points to trade down. We lost points in both scenarios!
What was clear during the draft was the massive imbalance in trades between some clubs. The likes of Geelong, the crows and port simply cleaned up for next years draft - (port also got a 2020 second rounder to move back from 22 to 23 - what a steal!).
As for the suns - well what a joke, don’t get me started. High Draft picks are like loose change to those guys!
None of these imbalanced trades would ever occur outside of live trading.
A proper experienced list manager at live trading has the potential to make major inroads for any club that is switched on enough. You’d expect those imbalanced trades to be less frequent in a couple of years as clubs cop on to the fact that there is major opportunity here.
I really like what we did.

Bidding on Thomas would have net us very little.

While, I would have downgraded our pick 10 ie trading to the Suns for picks 15,20. Upgrading the pick worked

Also, Demons could have bided on Henry.
 

eastfreo75

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Yes I agree, but we should have bid on Green at the Serong pick. I mean, imagine if they passed; would be awesome. And if they don't pass, then we have insulated our first round next year.

Everything doesn't turn out how you want it on draft day. There are swings and roundabouts. But this was definitely an opportunity for the club to control the outcome. Carlton bidding should have been anticipated, and the idea that they "should" have bid on Green before Henry is irrelevant. We had the opportunity to take that out of the equation.
Good will is gold.

Having picks 7,8,9 is pretty romantic and all the picks felt great.

Unless it’s a no brainer I wouldn’t bid, it pisses off the player you pick next.
 

Dockeroo

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There should be some opportunities over the next few seasons to trade for some of the WA players than may want to come back to Perth, if they are doing well. Regarding the live trades, I accept that we were shafted by port due to circumstances we were in, but surely the trade should have been lined up well before then? The question is - did we get a sh*t deal for that 2020 second because we were caught on the hop and didn’t expect the bid? I reckon we were and we had to scramble for whoever would trade with us than at that stage.
 

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