Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Bender571

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Posts
5,129
Likes
4,242
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Remember reading an article at the time that he was moved to hb to escape tags, mayve been after dominating in under 16s as a mid by the sound of it.
You might be referring to these article;
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...ut-darcy-tucker-cops-the-recruiters-blowtorch
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...le-darcy-tucker-essendons-approach-stands-out
"Country entered the carnival as the clear favourite to win the division one title. But Country didn't have an easy start, and neither did Tucker. Country needed a goal after the siren to beat rival Vic Metro, and Tucker managed just seven disposals. He started in the midfield and had just one possession in the opening term, and in the second half was shifted to the back flank to find more of the ball. It simply didn't happen. "That game stuck in my guts for three days," he says. He was told he'd be moving to his more customary role at half-back for the next game. Tucker understood the decision, but has mixed feelings."

But from that article (and this one) it sounds like Tucker has always been a gun half back flanker who was trying to push into the midfield in 2015, but couldn't get it to click.
 

estibador

purple haze
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Posts
37,679
Likes
40,864
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool
Pretty sure they still get paid a portion of seat sales at Optus in one area
That's ridiculous, unless it applies to all the WAFL clubs.

The unfair advantage Subi has over the rest of the competition is ruining the WAFL far more than anything the AFL clubs are doing.
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
I have a soft spot for the kid, but i just get the feeling there is going to be a time come where he is really going to explode and turn into a legitimate borderline B/A Grade footballer.
He's classy by foot, really strong, a good decision maker. I think hes a little slow, but i also think hes a midfielder and not a flanker like he has been pigeonholed as to this point.
Tucker's one of the quickest in sprint work at the club. Defintely not slow.
 

theGav56

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
17,594
Likes
11,372
Location
Bali
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
Those articles re Tucker seem to indicate similar concerns to how things have panned out at AFL level; Looks great, good skills. Looks like he should be midfielder, but is mostly a HBF with low production. Hope he can push through that and get his career firing.
 

Docker82

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Posts
2,707
Likes
2,746
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
That's ridiculous, unless it applies to all the WAFL clubs.

The unfair advantage Subi has over the rest of the competition is ruining the WAFL far more than anything the AFL clubs are doing.
Subiaco in my book are making the entire competition irrelevant including themselves.

The only two teams that seem to matter anymore are whoever the Freo Reserves are and whoever the West Coast Reserves are.

Competition is as dead as a dodo.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Posts
7
Likes
7
AFL Club
Fremantle
Subiaco in my book are making the entire competition irrelevant including themselves.

The only two teams that seem to matter anymore are whoever the Freo Reserves are and whoever the West Coast Reserves are.

Competition is as dead as a dodo.
Cant criticise subi for making good financial decisions.
Its in the AFLs best interest for the WAFL to deteriorate not WCE or Freos
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
I should have said ‘vanilla’.
Disagree with 'vanilla' statement even more than the 'slow' comment. At his best takes the game on with his kicking. I dont see someone who can kick 60 metres and hit targets as vanilla in any way shape whatsoever. He also has a giant leap as he was known for taking species in his junior days and was a state high jumper. . Personally think he has struggled a bit with finding the right balance between following his natural instincts and following coaching instructions. I still think he a heap of potential if we settle him in one position for an extended period
 

theGav56

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
17,594
Likes
11,372
Location
Bali
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
Disagree with 'vanilla' statement even more than the 'slow' comment. At his best takes the game on with his kicking. I dont see someone who can kick 60 metres and hit targets as vanilla in any way shape whatsoever. He also has a giant leap as he was known for taking species in his junior days and was a state high jumper. . Personally think he has struggled a bit with finding the right balance between following his natural instincts and following coaching instructions. I still think he a heap of potential if we settle him in one position for an extended period
What one position has he deserved? I haven't seen it. Ryan and Wilson have earned that. Sandilands. Not many players get to have one position status these days and they need to be Best In Show. Everyone else gets moved around.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Tayl0r

Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
33,825
Likes
33,493
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #562
I've noticed that players who think really hard about what they do seem a step behind play, except when the team is flying and the structures all hold, the plans are simply being worked through - then they look like guns.

I think Tucker falls into that group
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
What one position has he deserved? I haven't seen it. Ryan and Wilson have earned that. Sandilands. Not many players get to have one position status these days and they need to be Best In Show. Everyone else gets moved around.
Im thinking we have a slight misunderstanding. Im saying he has moved all over the ground more than any player on our list. Half forward, wing, and half back. Plenty of times that has been in one game. He's still only 21 and he has shown plenty compared to some players who go on to have great careers in his first three years. Sorry, but deadest hate how ridculously harshly players under 21 get judged for not being superstars in the first three years on a list by some on here. He's had some good games already. There is way more to like then some on here make out.
 

M_rash

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Posts
2,012
Likes
4,072
AFL Club
Fremantle
Im thinking we have a slight misunderstanding. Im saying he has moved all over the ground more than any player on our list. Half forward, wing, and half back. Plenty of times that has been in one game. He's still only 21 and he has shown plenty compared to some players who go on to have great careers in his first three years. Sorry, but deadest hate how ridculously harshly players under 21 get judged for not being superstars in the first three years on a list by some on here. He's had some good games already. There is way more to like then some on here make out.
It’s just hard to say that he’s improved each year. I don’t mind fringe players lingering around as long as they show some improvement year to year. Tucker just seems to have plateau’d already.

He’s had a couple of good games, but mostly is a bit meh for me. His kicking is OK, but not elite or great by any stretch - seems to regularly kick it over the heads of his targets. If he could just take a bit off his kicks, he would improve that aspect of his game.

Another thing that possibly lends to judging him more harshly is that he was/is a bit of a physical specimen, so we expect them to come on faster than the skinny kids. He’s played a lot of games early on partly because of this. It’s possibly going to be a crunch season for him to nail down a B22 or be forever Mr Fringe (NTTAWWT).
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
It’s just hard to say that he’s improved each year. I don’t mind fringe players lingering around as long as they show some improvement year to year. Tucker just seems to have plateau’d already.

He’s had a couple of good games, but mostly is a bit meh for me. His kicking is OK, but not elite or great by any stretch - seems to regularly kick it over the heads of his targets. If he could just take a bit off his kicks, he would improve that aspect of his game.

Another thing that possibly lends to judging him more harshly is that he was/is a bit of a physical specimen, so we expect them to come on faster than the skinny kids. He’s played a lot of games early on partly because of this. It’s possibly going to be a crunch season for him to nail down a B22 or be forever Mr Fringe (NTTAWWT).
He improved a ton in his second compared to his first year and had one year (last) season where he didnt make as much progress as many expected. Yeo, Docherty and a ton of other quality long-term players did the same. Biggest load of rubbish ever to say categorically he has plateued overall. Just for the record he is two years younger than recent draftee Bewley. His chances of improving as a footballer are still very, very high.

The 'meh' comment is such a load of nonsense when used to describe any player anyway. It doesnt have any real meaning apart demonstrating that anyone who uses the term to describe a footballer cant accurately describe what they are talking about, or make a valid point.

I definitely see the potential for him to benefit from hopefully having more quality talls in attack to kick long to next season as well. I think his long kicking is outstanding and it is only when he is caught in two minds between going long or short that he makes a mistake. The opposite of 'taking a bit off his kicks' is the advice I hope he is getting.
 

M_rash

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Posts
2,012
Likes
4,072
AFL Club
Fremantle
He improved a ton in his second compared to his first year and had one year (last) season where he didnt make as much progress as many expected. Yeo, Docherty and a ton of other quality long-term players did the same. Biggest load of rubbish ever to say categorically he has plateued overall. Just for the record he is two years younger than recent draftee Bewley. His chances of improving as a footballer are still very, very high.

The 'meh' comment is such a load of nonsense when used to describe any player anyway. It doesnt have any real meaning apart demonstrating that anyone who uses the term to describe a footballer cant accurately describe what they are talking about, or make a valid point.

I definitely see the potential for him to benefit from hopefully having more quality talls in attack to kick long to next season as well. I think his long kicking is outstanding and it is only when he is caught in two minds between going long or short that he makes a mistake. The opposite of 'taking a bit off his kicks' is the advice I hope he is getting.
Nice way to blow up, or is that how you respond to everyone with a differing view? :think:

“He just seems to have plateaud” = biggest load of rubbish ever to say he has categorically plateaud.

“Hes has a couple of good games but mostly is a bit meh to me.” Then provide an example of how I think his kicking is overrated, and how to improve it. = load of nonsense, can’t describe what I’m talking about, or make a valid point.

It’s OK to have differing opinions on players. But to just lash out and totally dismiss someone’s opinion is a categorical load of rubbish.

Some valid points could include;
Yes, whilst some players take longer to develop and really command a B22 spot, others (the vast majority of AFL players) have a short lived career. I think he needs to nail down a B22 spot this year or risk being over taken by other candidates and then potentially becoming a depth player - which every team needs (not every player is a B22 player).

He’s younger than Bewley, correct. And why did Bewley get drafted? Because he’s shown continual improvement over the years - kinda validates my point a little bit. Tabs is a classic example too - gradual improvement is important. Some elite players have that break out season, but most players just gradually improve and get better each year. He’s young enough to turn it around, but usually by 50 games, you should have a large enough sample set to understand what a player is capable of. In today’s world of analytics, even first year players have their performance bench marked against previous players to try to determine their ceiling. Our new list manager would be all over this. Just going by his fantasy numbers (clearly not ideal but indicative), he’s declined each year since his first (not a huge concern, but validates my claim that he’s kinda plateaued).

Finally, bombing it long isn’t necessarily a great way to improve kicking skills. It’ll get ticked off as an “effective kick” and improve his DE%, but my suggestion to “take a bit off his kicks” just means to place the kick in front of the leading player, not over their head. Lots of teams are scoring more and more by lowering their eyes and hitting the short 45 i50 kicks. The quick, long kick can work on turnovers, but the majority of field kicks are the shorter, more precise ones.

Sorry if I didn’t expand on my views enough in my original post, but you could have just asked me to expand on them, rather than being so dismissive (and rude) about it. Go Freo!
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
Nice way to blow up, or is that how you respond to everyone with a differing view? :think:

“He just seems to have plateaud” = biggest load of rubbish ever to say he has categorically plateaud.

“Hes has a couple of good games but mostly is a bit meh to me.” Then provide an example of how I think his kicking is overrated, and how to improve it. = load of nonsense, can’t describe what I’m talking about, or make a valid point.

It’s OK to have differing opinions on players. But to just lash out and totally dismiss someone’s opinion is a categorical load of rubbish.

Some valid points could include;
Yes, whilst some players take longer to develop and really command a B22 spot, others (the vast majority of AFL players) have a short lived career. I think he needs to nail down a B22 spot this year or risk being over taken by other candidates and then potentially becoming a depth player - which every team needs (not every player is a B22 player).

He’s younger than Bewley, correct. And why did Bewley get drafted? Because he’s shown continual improvement over the years - kinda validates my point a little bit. Tabs is a classic example too - gradual improvement is important. Some elite players have that break out season, but most players just gradually improve and get better each year. He’s young enough to turn it around, but usually by 50 games, you should have a large enough sample set to understand what a player is capable of. In today’s world of analytics, even first year players have their performance bench marked against previous players to try to determine their ceiling. Our new list manager would be all over this. Just going by his fantasy numbers (clearly not ideal but indicative), he’s declined each year since his first (not a huge concern, but validates my claim that he’s kinda plateaued).

Finally, bombing it long isn’t necessarily a great way to improve kicking skills. It’ll get ticked off as an “effective kick” and improve his DE%, but my suggestion to “take a bit off his kicks” just means to place the kick in front of the leading player, not over their head. Lots of teams are scoring more and more by lowering their eyes and hitting the short 45 i50 kicks. The quick, long kick can work on turnovers, but the majority of field kicks are the shorter, more precise ones.

Sorry if I didn’t expand on my views enough in my original post, but you could have just asked me to expand on them, rather than being so dismissive (and rude) about it. Go Freo!
Get it together. In your first post I argued against something that was clearly incorrect if that's rude then you probably wont like the whole on-line forum thing. Im not dismissing your opinion anyway. If I was I d reply with something like 'what a meh' point. I argued against it because I disagree with your view and think your argument is very weak. If you dont want to debate then why are you on a footy forum to begin with?

In case you do want to debate then there are some pretty clear arguments against the above post. Its simply not true that there are not players on every afl list that are yet to be guaranteed best 22 who dont stay on list for extended periods longer than their fourth year on a list. Look at the age profile of every afl team where the average age is around 23+ (two years younger than Tucker). We just recruited Conca and Colyer who have both been on afl lists for more than seven years despite not nailing down a definite best 22 place for any extended period for crying out loud.

Whatever his fantasy numbers (means nothing in player value whatsoever in reality). He certainly improved his ability to not fumble, not rush his kicks, man up up his player and kicking over distance in his second year on a list. Thats why at the end of his second season nearly every freo b/f poster had him in their expected best 22 for season 2019. Hardly plateauing. His improvement in adjusting to the pace of afl was obvious. Ive agreed that he didnt improve as much as many expected last year, but he is hardly flying captain solo in terms of being alone in having a slightly off year in your first three years on a list.

Im not sure what you are on about with the kicking either. I said he is someone I would instruct to kick long because he a terrific long kick and implied that he was not as good a kick when he is in two minds about going either long or short. Its not a good idea for everyone to look short the majority of the time as it allows the opposition team time to get players behind the ball (which has killed us in recent years) and we seem to be changing our gameplan towards a longer kicking style if the training reports are anything to go by as well.

If you want to respond. At least argue the points rather than going on some rant how it is rude to have a differing view to you.
 
Last edited:

Purpletown

All Australian
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Posts
869
Likes
1,422
Location
Restumping
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
SFFC Denver Broncos
Cant criticise subi for making good financial decisions.
Its in the AFLs best interest for the WAFL to deteriorate not WCE or Freos
How are Subi making good financial decisions? They don't have to do anything but make sure they have a bucket under the stream of money that pours into their coffers as a result of being squeezed out of Subiaco Oval 30 years ago. They have been well and truly compensated for that inconvenience many times over and it's just a rort now. Unfortunately they are dominating the league to the point where no other WAFL club can compete on or off the field. How that makes for good football is questionable.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
59
Likes
138
AFL Club
Fremantle
Get it together. In your first post I argued against something that was clearly incorrect if that's rude then you probably wont like the whole on-line forum thing. Im not dismissing your opinion anyway. If I was I d reply with something like 'what a meh' point. I argued against it because I disagree with your view and think your argument is very weak. If you dont want to debate then why are you on a footy forum to begin with?

In case you do want to debate then there are some pretty clear arguments against the above post. Its simply not true that there are not players on every afl list that are yet to be guaranteed best 22 who dont stay on list for extended periods longer than their fourth year on a list. Look at the age profile of every afl team where the average age is around 23+ (two years younger than Tucker). We just recruited Conca and Colyer who have both been on afl lists for more than seven years despite not nailing down a definite best 22 place for any extended period for crying out loud.

Whatever his fantasy numbers (means nothing in player value whatsoever in reality). He certainly improved his ability to not fumble, not rush his kicks, man up up his player and kicking over distance in his second year on a list. Thats why at the end of his second season nearly every freo b/f poster had him in their expected best 22 for season 2019. Hardly plateauing. His improvement in adjusting to the pace of afl was obvious. Ive agreed that he didnt improve as much as many expected last year, but he is hardly flying captain solo in terms of being alone in having a slightly off year in your first three years on a list.

Im not sure what you are on about with the kicking either. I said he is someone I would instruct to kick long because he a terrific long kick and implied that he was not as good a kick when he is in two minds about going either long or short. Its not a good idea for everyone to look short the majority of the time as it allows the opposition team time to get players behind the ball (which has killed us in recent years) and we seem to be changing our gameplan towards a longer kicking style if the training reports are anything to go by as well.

If you want to respond. At least argue the points rather than going on some rant how it is rude to have a differing view to you.
Meh
 

M_rash

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Posts
2,012
Likes
4,072
AFL Club
Fremantle
Get it together. In your first post I argued against something that was clearly incorrect if that's rude then you probably wont like the whole on-line forum thing. Im not dismissing your opinion anyway. If I was I d reply with something like 'what a meh' point. I argued against it because I disagree with your view and think your argument is very weak. If you dont want to debate then why are you on a footy forum to begin with?

In case you do want to debate then there are some pretty clear arguments against the above post. Its simply not true that there are not players on every afl list that are yet to be guaranteed best 22 who dont stay on list for extended periods longer than their fourth year on a list. Look at the age profile of every afl team where the average age is around 23+ (two years younger than Tucker). We just recruited Conca and Colyer who have both been on afl lists for more than seven years despite not nailing down a definite best 22 place for any extended period for crying out loud.

Whatever his fantasy numbers (means nothing in player value whatsoever in reality). He certainly improved his ability to not fumble, not rush his kicks, man up up his player and kicking over distance in his second year on a list. Thats why at the end of his second season nearly every freo b/f poster had him in their expected best 22 for season 2019. Hardly plateauing. His improvement in adjusting to the pace of afl was obvious. Ive agreed that he didnt improve as much as many expected last year, but he is hardly flying captain solo in terms of being alone in having a slightly off year in your first three years on a list.

Im not sure what you are on about with the kicking either. I said he is someone I would instruct to kick long because he a terrific long kick and implied that he was not as good a kick when he is in two minds about going either long or short. Its not a good idea for everyone to look short the majority of the time as it allows the opposition team time to get players behind the ball (which has killed us in recent years) and we seem to be changing our gameplan towards a longer kicking style if the training reports are anything to go by as well.

If you want to respond. At least argue the points rather than going on some rant how it is rude to have a differing view to you.
I’ll keep this short. Just because it’s an online forum doesn’t mean people should be rude to each other - I’ll call that out every time someone does it to me.

I won’t enter a debate with you because you seem to read my post but either misinterpret what I’ve written or just trying to twist my words to suit your arguement - example being me saying Tucker is at risk of becoming a fringe/depth player like the majority of AFL players are. You misinterpret/twist that as me thinking it’s an uncommon thing compared to other lists - which isnt anywhere near what I posted. Basically I think we both agree on the point, but for whatever reason you wanna twist my words to try to argue that my point is false.

Data analytics is a thing. I don’t like it, but it’s the future. Our list manager has experience in the field.

I also think Tucker needs to improve his kicking to leads - he often kicks over people’s heads. Between him, Langdon, Blakely, Fyfe and Conca - our forwards would be lucky to ever get hit on the tit. Most of our players need to improve their kicking, not just Tucker.

And FYI - I’m not the sensitive type, but many other people are and words (even on online forums) do have an impact.
 

sherrif

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Posts
2,655
Likes
6,538
AFL Club
Fremantle
I’ll keep this short. Just because it’s an online forum doesn’t mean people should be rude to each other - I’ll call that out every time someone does it to me.

I won’t enter a debate with you because you seem to read my post but either misinterpret what I’ve written or just trying to twist my words to suit your arguement - example being me saying Tucker is at risk of becoming a fringe/depth player like the majority of AFL players are. You misinterpret/twist that as me thinking it’s an uncommon thing compared to other lists - which isnt anywhere near what I posted. Basically I think we both agree on the point, but for whatever reason you wanna twist my words to try to argue that my point is false.

Data analytics is a thing. I don’t like it, but it’s the future. Our list manager has experience in the field.

I also think Tucker needs to improve his kicking to leads - he often kicks over people’s heads. Between him, Langdon, Blakely, Fyfe and Conca - our forwards would be lucky to ever get hit on the tit. Most of our players need to improve their kicking, not just Tucker.

And FYI - I’m not the sensitive type, but many other people are and words (even on online forums) do have an impact.
Yep. Agree to disagree. Time to move on.
 

Bastyy

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Posts
406
Likes
447
Location
Launceston, TAS
AFL Club
Fremantle
If Langdon played less of a winger type position and played a bit more inside would we lock in Bewley or would we go for someone like McIntosh for that wing role?


Also if O'Meara is really out of contract next year, will we make an inquiry or just, not bother
 

theGav56

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
17,594
Likes
11,372
Location
Bali
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
If Langdon played less of a winger type position and played a bit more inside would we lock in Bewley or would we go for someone like McIntosh for that wing role?


Also if O'Meara is really out of contract next year, will we make an inquiry or just, not bother
McIntosh? Do you mean McCarthy?

Sounds to me more like they have plans for Bewley to play a bit inside. Going to be interesting to see.

O'Meara would be a wait and see situation for now.
 
Top Bottom