Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

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Cogs is zero chance at coming to Freo.

My bet is reunite with his best mate Jaeger Meara at Hawks. Annoying but imagine 2021 hawks - Cogs, Jaeger, Mitchell, Scully midfield
 

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M_rash

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I feel like Cogs could be that missing cog in our midfield machine. Without him, I think we need another top 3 pick to come in. I have no idea about the upcoming draft though - are there any Sam Walsh or Oliver Clayton types?

Would need to trade up for that though... OR hold our first pick and just trade McCarthy + Kersten + Bennell + Matera for Gold Coasts first pick. Get it done Belly! Get that feather!!!
 
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It would be so Hawthorn if they got him.
Makes sense as to why they went so hard to get Jaeger few years back. They have planned this from 2016. Jaeger, Mitchell live together and Cogs stays with them regularly when in Melbourne. Annoying but true.

Throw in That Port bloke Wingard and that’s a complete A grade midfield group imported from other clubs. Bloody Hawks.
 

Ysaye

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Who do we have coming through our NGA this year’s draft and any first round prospects?
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/img_6066-jpg.421715/

Liam Henry is the one to watch for this year; he is in the AFL academy for this year along with next year prospects Brandon Walker and Joel Western. Henry is a medium sized (currently listed at 179cm on WAFL website but had heard he had grown a bit) midfielder / forward, good skills. Not looking at a first round pick at this stage but current thinking is (based purely on academy selection) top 50.

Manfred Kelly (midfielder) is also up this year and has also be excellent to date, but size is unfortunately playing right against him (he is sub 170cm?).
 

blue shark

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I feel like Cogs could be that missing cog in our midfield machine. Without him, I think we need another top 3 pick to come in. I have no idea about the upcoming draft though - are there any Sam Walsh or Oliver Clayton types?

Would need to trade up for that though... OR hold our first pick and just trade McCarthy + Kersten + Bennell + Matera for Gold Coasts first pick. Get it done Belly! Get that feather!!!
Sure it would be fantastic to pick up a player of that calibre, but I have a feeling we are just covering up the cracks
in the coaching box.
Its like the Hogan, Lobb, trades they are an improvement but without some gameplan input?
Ross likes his players robotic to some degree, which is fine but the smart users need to be autonomous, its the unpredictability that helps scoring, harder to counter.
Belly has been just as important as our other additions, I'm hoping he leaves no stone unturned in turning the ship
around.
 

Tayl0r

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Defensive game plans work best when there is a sprinkling of stars who will win more than the average number of contests. That works for an offensive game plan too, but they don't try and cut out as much opposition avenue to scoring.
 

arsesmart

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Predictability aids scoring as much as defence and offensively oriented gameplans can have predictability built in as much as any other type of plan. That's the essence of a plan, predictability. Given the level of scrutiny that goes into club level analysis, most every club knows more or less the way another club is going to play as the season unfolds and they'll back their style of play in rather than go for surprises.

Freo should be a bit more of an unknown this year with their new style of play, but it's then about getting it familiar enough to a critical mass of the team to allow it to be played cohesively (aka instinctively).

Personnel generally impact what and how game plans are successfully implemented. I go back to the Phil Jackson book, where he talks about the "triangle offence" and how it was designed for "powerful centres who could dominate the lane etc..." so the make up of his team would result in adjustments to the game plan (and vice versa). I figure the seismic shift in our forward personnel allows (almost forces) a major shift in game style and strategy.
 
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Tayl0r

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Predictability aids scoring as much as defence and offensively oriented gameplans can have predictability built in as much as any other type of plan. That's the essence of a plan, predictability. Given the level of scrutiny that goes into club level analysis, most every club knows more or less the way another club is going to play as the season unfolds and they'll back their style of play in rather than go for surprises.

Freo should be a bit more of an unknown this year with their new style of play, but it's then about getting it familiar enough to a critical mass of the team to allow it to be played cohesively (aka instinctively).
You're right about that, but it does also lead to easier defensive plans against when you're predictable. Those extra defenders don't crowd the tall by accident.
 

arsesmart

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You're right about that, but it does also lead to easier defensive plans against when you're predictable. Those extra defenders don't crowd the tall by accident.
Predictable doesn't mean that you have to do the same thing every time though. Predictable can have a responsiveness to a spread of situations built into it.

Using the triangle offence as an example, it is primarily based on where players position themselves when a teammate has the ball and then suggests the unfolding ball movement chain preferences depending on who was covered etc. This had predictability in it as players knew where to go to in certain circumstances and what the order of most likely decisions their teammate would make, but allowed variability according to what was actually happening with the opposition.
 

Walkingwounded

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Predictable doesn't mean that you have to do the same thing every time though. Predictable can have a responsiveness to a spread of situations built into it.

Using the triangle offence as an example, it is primarily based on where players position themselves when a teammate has the ball and then suggests the unfolding ball movement chain preferences depending on who was covered etc. This had predictability in it as players knew where to go to in certain circumstances and what the order of most likely decisions their teammate would make, but allowed variability according to what was actually happening with the opposition.
I think the comment made by Lyon re forward structure, was that they went long too often, and forgot to lower their eyes.

Same olde issue, let’s see what happens next week.. it’s been point out to them.
 

blue shark

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Predictable doesn't mean that you have to do the same thing every time though. Predictable can have a responsiveness to a spread of situations built into it.

Using the triangle offence as an example, it is primarily based on where players position themselves when a teammate has the ball and then suggests the unfolding ball movement chain preferences depending on who was covered etc. This had predictability in it as players knew where to go to in certain circumstances and what the order of most likely decisions their teammate would make, but allowed variability according to what was actually happening with the opposition.
The triangle offence worked well for Jackson due to the quality of players at his disposal? Having players with high IQ
of the game of basketball is paramount to success.
They could think on their feet and have several options, which were used in practice?
The football equivalent would be a Hawks, WC, setup.
 

arsesmart

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The triangle offence worked well for Jackson due to the quality of players at his disposal? Having players with high IQ
of the game of basketball is paramount to success.
They could think on their feet and have several options, which were used in practice?
The football equivalent would be a Hawks, WC, setup.
In the book, he details the issue he had with getting buy-in from everybody, particularly players like Jordan and Bryant. He says it's a common misperception that it is complicated and once it is fully understood it becomes fairly easy to operate instinctively with it.

It seemed much more in line with both the Bulldogs and Tigers game styles and the way the operated within close spaces and the contest to me really.

Not sure how with blokes like Masten, Yeo, Naitanui etc how the WC have any higher footy IQ than anyone else though.
 

theGav56

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Sure it would be fantastic to pick up a player of that calibre, but I have a feeling we are just covering up the cracks
in the coaching box.
Its like the Hogan, Lobb, trades they are an improvement but without some gameplan input?
Ross likes his players robotic to some degree, which is fine but the smart users need to be autonomous, its the unpredictability that helps scoring, harder to counter.
Belly has been just as important as our other additions, I'm hoping he leaves no stone unturned in turning the ship
around.
I like it that you haven't gone early with this judgement and waited until we had JLT1 under the belt. And especially waited until the last little bit of that JLT1 game where we were losing rather than being misled by, say, the rest of the game where we were in the game against last years grand finalist.
 

M_rash

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The best teams beat you with what you know. It’s a combination of game plan and personnel.

You know Josh Kennedy is going to be the main target - you know the players around him will block defenders to create leading channels - you know McGovern, Hurn and Barass will intercept the long ball - but you just can’t stop it.

Freo don’t seem to know yet which forwards will play what roles. Lots of talk about rotating them all - Tabs deep, Hogan/Lobb up the ground, Lobb deep, Hogan/Tabs up the ground... Cox instead of Tabs? Doesn’t really matter as long as the team knows which ones are playing what role at any given time. The deepest forward should know what’s expected of him, as should the higher forwards. And the defs and mids should also know. Presumably this was discussed at the Gold Coast camp.

Post match interview with Tucker I think it was, mentioned our brand for the year was concentrated on “being hard to play against, contested ball and tackling”. We won tackles and contested possession - so hopefully whatever our game plan is, can build from that. Last year we sucked at both (3rd worst in comp for both), whilst pies were 3rd best for contested ball and 5th for tackles. Sure it’s only JLT, but it’s a start. Get that working and you can work out the rest after you win the ball. Baby steps. 60 inside 50s is incredible for us. Sure a lot sucked, but it’s a foundation to build from.
 

blue shark

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I like it that you haven't gone early with this judgement and waited until we had JLT1 under the belt. And especially waited until the last little bit of that JLT1 game where we were losing rather than being misled by, say, the rest of the game where we were in the game against last years grand finalist.
I was just replying to a poster that thought we were one A grader away from an elite midfield. ie Cogs. My opinion is that
we are one assistant short in experience with forward line tactics.
I don;t see the point in being the next Carlton, GC, even Dees rebuild took forever.
 

theGav56

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I was just replying to a poster that thought we were one A grader away from an elite midfield. ie Cogs. My opinion is that
we are one assistant short in experience with forward line tactics.
I don;t see the point in being the next Carlton, GC, even Dees rebuild took forever.
Agree about the assistant. I find it a little difficult to pinpoint who would be the right compliment for Ross though. I don't think another up and comer would be especially effective, but would love the club to find a "peer" assistant along the lines of Rattan. But again, I can't see who that might be.
 

Midnite65

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Post match interview with Tucker I think it was, mentioned our brand for the year was concentrated on “being hard to play against, contested ball and tackling”. We won tackles and contested possession - so hopefully whatever our game plan is, can build from that. Last year we sucked at both (3rd worst in comp for both), whilst pies were 3rd best for contested ball and 5th for tackles. Sure it’s only JLT, but it’s a start. Get that working and you can work out the rest after you win the ball. Baby steps. 60 inside 50s is incredible for us. Sure a lot sucked, but it’s a foundation to build from.[/QUOTE]


The key game plan should be to dramatically reduce turnovers by focussing on ball retention, we had multiple games in the last 2 years where we would have had 10 goals plus scored on us from our turnovers. If you want to replicate the success of the Hawks in their prime and the Eagles last year they don't give up the ball easily when they have it.
 

Cesoir

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The key game plan should be to dramatically reduce turnovers by focussing on ball retention, we had multiple games in the last 2 years where we would have had 10 goals plus scored on us from our turnovers. If you want to replicate the success of the Hawks in their prime and the Eagles last year they don't give up the ball easily when they have it.
That is not a game plan. If it were that easy, my game plan would be to not drop marks, not miss targets by hand or foot, and kick lots of goals.

A game plan involves a strategy for optimising the skill set of the personnel at your disposal to ensure you score more than they do. If you have a team which is not highly skilled, the game plan will necessarily be a more negating one (Freo circa 2012 - 2015). If you have a team which is highly skilled, you will try to focus on getting the ball into good scoring positions without giving the opposition a sniff at it - e.g. Hawthorn, West Coast. If you have lots of fast, highly skilled smaller players then the "chaos" style played by the Bulldogs and Richmond in the last couple of years is very effective.

We are moving from a low skill base where we have dropped great foot soldiers like Barlow, Suban, DeBoer, Mzungu, Pearce x 2, Dawson and seem to be recruiting and drafting with a focus on better skills. That means we should be able to transition to a more attacking game plan or game style which is exactly what I have seen at training and in the first JLT - I spotted one Ethan Hughes backwards kick on the weekend, but nothing in comparison to recent seasons. This will not be a simple transition achieved in one or two weeks, but I think if we can keep a reasonably fit side on the park we will see some real results by the middle of the season.

Patience grasshopper...
 
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Docker82

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Good Ross Lyon sides had:

An elite KPP at each end
2-3 inside mids that are or are close to elite
Elite kick from half back
2 gun small forwards
Gun ruckman
At least two servicable wingmen
Zac Dawson

It's clear we don't have all that atm. Zac Dawson aside (for those who somehow missed the joke) most good teams have the above and more.

We need to find the inside mids and small forwards. Anything else we add along the way is a bonus.
 

go_the_dockers

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Are our players working hard enough during preseason?
Are our standards high enough?

I would love to hear from people who attend training, to see if the standards have dropped over the years.
 
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Preseason stuff is pretty much irrelevant compared to how much a player can learn and develop during the home and away season. Pointless to try and examine a group that's comfortable in their own surroundings.
 
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