Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

Docker82

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Posts
2,927
Likes
3,084
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
And both Cox and Dixon already have defender on their resume don't they? Plus we already have Logue and Duman who are outside of our current best 22, and while they may not be week in, week out candidates for the two key tall defender positions, they would be able to cover when required.
There’s no way I’d put Duman a key defender ever tbh.

They may be shorter (and played Saturday) but I’d rather Hughes or Nyhuis play that role and Duman replace them. They mark the ball better and don’t kick it as well as Duman.

Dixon is at the back of a long list of KPFs - I’d send him back and keep him there until the time comes when our KPFs are all injured (hopefully never).
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

theGav56

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Posts
18,742
Likes
13,124
Location
Bali
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
There’s no way I’d put Duman a key defender ever tbh.

They may be shorter (and played Saturday) but I’d rather Hughes or Nyhuis play that role and Duman replace them. They mark the ball better and don’t kick it as well as Duman.

Dixon is at the back of a long list of KPFs - I’d send him back and keep him there until the time comes when our KPFs are all injured (hopefully never).
The point is exactly the same no matter who we are discussing. We actually already have depth to cover emergencies, especially when you have the two key positions locked in for the long term as well as a precociously talented and athletic 3rd tall. Every other option is depth for the foreseeable future. Nothing wrong with depth, but that is not what you recruit for, and we have best 22 needs that should be targeted.

The only way I would draft a KPD is if they were easily the best available at that pick, and really only after the first 2 rounds.
 

Docker82

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Posts
2,927
Likes
3,084
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
The point is exactly the same no matter who we are discussing. We actually already have depth to cover emergencies, especially when you have the two key positions locked in for the long term as well as a precociously talented and athletic 3rd tall. Every other option is depth for the foreseeable future. Nothing wrong with depth, but that is not what you recruit for, and we have best 22 needs that should be targeted.

The only way I would draft a KPD is if they were easily the best available at that pick, and really only after the first 2 rounds.
Guess we sort of agree.

I think we should be drafting mids and medium forwards (too many small blokes already) only for the first three rounds tbh. Unlike most on here I actually see a third rounder as an okay draft selection that can add a lot to the list if you nail them.

Ideally I’d probably add another KPD and sort out our ruck depth too but realistically I do not see these players adding much to best 22 calculations for a future top four push so fourth round onwards for me.
 

Superkoops

Club Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Posts
2,142
Likes
3,165
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Outside out the top 5, first rounders are extremely overrated.
More likely outside the top 7.

But Willotree’s point was not giving away two 1st rounders in one trade period. The Hawks are going to find themselves in a hole sooner or later due to not having 1st round picks the past few years.

I’d swap (for Tim Kelly) one single pick around 8-12 which will likely be our first pick in 2019. But nothing more. If it is to cost more then we walk away.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

tonygeeks

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Posts
2,939
Likes
3,599
AFL Club
Fremantle
Yes it has. In 2016, before the trades we won 4 games!

Now picture Freo running out next week without Hamling, Hill, Wilson, Matera, Lobb, Conca, Hogan, Ryan and Brayshaw.

Blind Freddy can see they've done well.
Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway
 
Last edited:

Tayl0r

Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,877
Likes
35,910
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #1,506
Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway
I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)
 

tonygeeks

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Posts
2,939
Likes
3,599
AFL Club
Fremantle
I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)
Seriously ? If Freo was run the way it is and was a Melbourne club

Well we wouldn't even be a Melbourne club anymore and would have been shipped off to tassie or the GC years ago
 

Tayl0r

Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,877
Likes
35,910
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #1,508
Seriously ? If Freo was run the way it is and was a Melbourne club

Well we wouldn't even be a Melbourne club anymore and would have been shipped off to tassie or the GC years ago
Yes, seriously. The AFL couldn't ship any of their actually broke Melbourne clubs to Gold Coast or Tasmania, Fremantle has a financial strength that all but a few of the Melbourne clubs would trade for in a heartbeat.

Fremantle FC is strong off field and our performances on field have been far stronger than you would think given the dialogue about the club here and the media.

Three seasons have passed since we finished top of the ladder. In that time we won more games that sides who have been given a pass for their rebuilds, they are full of young talent, it's going places etc.

Fremantle's allowance is far, far smaller than the rest of the league because we live in a football mad two team town. I expect Port Adelaide get a similar pressure on their club and coach when they don't do as well and the other side does.
 

Scham

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 19, 2004
Posts
12,949
Likes
8,219
AFL Club
Fremantle
I disagree, I think you have a much higher standard for what counts as "screwing things up pretty bad" when you're in a two team footy mad town. Our last few years have been objectively poor, even mentioned that it's been near rock bottom, meanwhile we win eight games twice and four games once.

This is in a competition where Carlton exists. We won 17 season games in 2015, since then:
Fremantle 4 8 8 4 = 24 from 74 (32.4%)
Gold Coast 6 6 4 3 = 19 from 74 (25.7%)
Brisbane 3 5 5 5 = 18 from 74 (24.3%)
Carlton 7 6 2 1 = 16 from 74 (21.6%)
Are they really the sides that we should be benchmarking ourselves against?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Tayl0r

Moderator
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Posts
35,877
Likes
35,910
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Moderator #1,512
Sub rule still in play in 2015. Probably impacted on gus
Round 1, subbed out in the fourth
Round 2, came on as concussion sub in 3rd then started 4th on
Round 3, came on in the second quarter
Round 4 to 13 - no vest
Round 14, subbed off for concussion
Round 15 to 21, 23 - no vest.

Four of twenty one games impacted.
 

WilloTree

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Posts
2,678
Likes
2,720
Location
Inside 50
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Claremont Tigers
Well yeah but we would have a lot of young players from the picks we used though so it's not quite as simple as that is it ?

It a fair question to wonder if we have topped up to get competitive too quickly but potentially hurt our long term prospects if our kids don't turn out as good as we hope we could be a pretty average side again in a couple of years

You have to screw things up pretty bad to be totally pus in a 2 team footy mad state like WA and our list managers acomplished that one pretty well which was kind of the point of my post anyway
Oh, I get your point. Freo have grossly underachieved in its 25 years given its advantages. I'm still generally pleased with our trades over the past 3 years. I'm not saying our list management overall has been top notch, just that they seem to have made some good moves at the trade table - particularly trading down of picks in 2018 and 2016, but knowing when to hold 'em in 2017.

In 2018 we traded out pick 6 (which Saints took Ben King with) for 11 23 30 and 49. All those picks were on-traded or live traded in deals to get Lobb, Hogan, Sturt, Valente and Shultz.
In 2016 we traded out pick 3 (which Bris took Hugh McCluggage with) for McCarthy, 7(Logue), 34 (Darcy) and 72 (Ryan).

Our list has been a mess for a while. There are a number of reasons for this, most predominantly 3 issues have historically held us back:
1. Releasing young talent for minimal return (Bell, McFee, Clement etc) and 'selling the farm' to get players in (Bell, Carr, Hedland, Craod etc)
2. Refusal to draft tall forwards (and to a lesser extent tall defenders) when Pav was in his late 20s and develop them.
3. Simpson, Pitt, Morobito, Sheridan, Weller - all 1st Round Mids no longer at the club.

But, I am confident the bad old days are behind us. Well, that was until I heard we'd re-entered the race for Kelly. This is genuinely worrying. Where's our pride?
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
2,563
Likes
3,519
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Vancouver Canucks
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.
 

tonygeeks

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Posts
2,939
Likes
3,599
AFL Club
Fremantle
Yes, seriously. The AFL couldn't ship any of their actually broke Melbourne clubs to Gold Coast or Tasmania, Fremantle has a financial strength that all but a few of the Melbourne clubs would trade for in a heartbeat.

Fremantle FC is strong off field and our performances on field have been far stronger than you would think given the dialogue about the club here and the media.

Three seasons have passed since we finished top of the ladder. In that time we won more games that sides who have been given a pass for their rebuilds, they are full of young talent, it's going places etc.

Fremantle's allowance is far, far smaller than the rest of the league because we live in a football mad two team town. I expect Port Adelaide get a similar pressure on their club and coach when they don't do as well and the other side does.
All that is fine apart from the financial stuff , I think you would see a big difference if we were competing in a saturated market like Melbourne


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
6,378
Likes
8,811
Location
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.
I'm also comfortable with Langdon leaving for a pick inside 20 if we think that Sturt/Henry/Bewley can step up. However, whilst he may not be great kicking inside 50, he does seem a good kick for goal and is pretty good defensively.
 

tonygeeks

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Posts
2,939
Likes
3,599
AFL Club
Fremantle
Oh, I get your point. Freo have grossly underachieved in its 25 years given its advantages. I'm still generally pleased with our trades over the past 3 years. I'm not saying our list management overall has been top notch, just that they seem to have made some good moves at the trade table - particularly trading down of picks in 2018 and 2016, but knowing when to hold 'em in 2017.

In 2018 we traded out pick 6 (which Saints took Ben King with) for 11 23 30 and 49. All those picks were on-traded or live traded in deals to get Lobb, Hogan, Sturt, Valente and Shultz.
In 2016 we traded out pick 3 (which Bris took Hugh McCluggage with) for McCarthy, 7(Logue), 34 (Darcy) and 72 (Ryan).

Our list has been a mess for a while. There are a number of reasons for this, most predominantly 3 issues have historically held us back:
1. Releasing young talent for minimal return (Bell, McFee, Clement etc) and 'selling the farm' to get players in (Bell, Carr, Hedland, Craod etc)
2. Refusal to draft tall forwards (and to a lesser extent tall defenders) when Pav was in his late 20s and develop them.
3. Simpson, Pitt, Morobito, Sheridan, Weller - all 1st Round Mids no longer at the club.

But, I am confident the bad old days are behind us. Well, that was until I heard we'd re-entered the race for Kelly. This is genuinely worrying. Where's our pride?
Yeah , welcome to footy 2020 i suppose with the Kelly business I don’t like it either
I agree drafting and trading is better but It doesn’t really matter if it’s better you have to be better than everyone else
Hopefully this Aldi guy is some sort of list management sevengali


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

eastfreo75

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Posts
6,063
Likes
4,508
Location
pakenham
AFL Club
Fremantle
More likely outside the top 7.

But Willotree’s point was not giving away two 1st rounders in one trade period. The Hawks are going to find themselves in a hole sooner or later due to not having 1st round picks the past few years.

I’d swap (for Tim Kelly) one single pick around 8-12 which will likely be our first pick in 2019. But nothing more. If it is to cost more then we walk away.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Go to https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison

Picks 6-10 average 120 games and it takes 6.2 picks to get 1 All Australian.

Remember, it takes a player at least 30-50 games to start playing well.

So you get only 70-90 games of high standard from a pick 6-10.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Posts
2,563
Likes
3,519
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Vancouver Canucks
I'm also comfortable with Langdon leaving for a pick inside 20 if we think that Sturt/Henry/Bewley can step up. However, whilst he may not be great kicking inside 50, he does seem a good kick for goal and is pretty good defensively.
Even Duman I think is a good option for a wing. One of the better kicks on our team.
 

WilloTree

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Posts
2,678
Likes
2,720
Location
Inside 50
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Claremont Tigers
I'm not saying he isn't a hard worker, but I don't think OReilly is going anywhere currently but back to WAFL reserves TBH.

If we wanted to invent a backman from a forward we will do it with players already on the list (Eg Cox, Dixon or Meek).
Haggers reporting this morning Freo in discussions with him. Maybe I'm not so far left-field as I thought!
 

blue shark

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
2,625
Likes
1,709
Location
perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...d/news-story/86eacdc42138c638aee8c53a6f3d77a0

Interesting article re: kicking inside 50. We're roughly middle-bottom of the pack for retaining the ball when kicking inside 50.

Here's what caught my eye: Ed Langdon is the 3rd worst kick inside 50 in the competition. Of his 30 kicks inside 50 we have retained posession of 5 of them. 5. That's not even mark rate that's just pure next possession.

Now it is still relatively early in the season numbers wise, 30 isn't a large sample to be making a judgement on. For example you see McCluggage there who is a better kick than Langdon IMO. But it passes the eye test - we know he sprays it. Even his handballs are loopy and prone to turnover. Compare it to B.Hill. Again I wish we could actually access these stats because you could bump it up to include last year.

I'd actually be inclined to let him go should a Vic team offer a decent package for him. Given we now have now hitched our wagon to Hogan as a KPF, who is more of a JJK lead-up style forward than anything else.
Langdon could be played like Stephenson? Find another winger with better skills. Duman, Hughes?
 
Top Bottom