2019 New Zealand vs England (5 T20Is, 2 Tests)

[Seedsfan]

I think a better way of finding who the better side is finding how many players from each side would get into a combined XI that can play across the world.

Warner
Agarwal
Pujara
Smith
Kohli (c)
Pant (wk)
Jadeja
Lyon
Cummins
Ishant
Bumrah

Both Rohit and Warner are HTBs, but since Warner has a longer track record of HTBing and can bat well in SA, I pick him. I don't think there's doubts about Pujara's place and then Smith and Kohli need no explanation. Pant has scored centuries in his debut tours in England and Australia and think is a better player for the wk batsman role in the team. Jadeja can perform as the all rounder, averages 56 with the bat and 28 with the ball in the last two years. Lyon has better versatility than Ashwin and so gets into the team. Ishant's inclusion might raise eyebrows for some but he has been a jet in the past two years while Hazelwood's form has been up and down. Cummins and Bumrah pick themselves.

So that's 7-4 in favour of India in a combined IndoAustralian XI, obviously doesn't say anything but it shows why they have been no.1 since 2016.

Lol Pant can’t even get a game for India. Jadeja wouldn’t get picked only in India would you look at two specialist spinners. If India toured this summer they wouldn’t of won a test

 

[Seedsfan]

Until Australia prove themselves, absolutely they’re better.

They haven’t lost at home in ages and they’re winning away.

People can speculate all they want but until someone actually beats them it’s nothing more than pointless talk.

What has Australia achieved so far with Smith and Warner back? A drawn series against what is a rank England side. Yes that could have been a win - a narrow one - but it wasn’t.

Winning away lol they lost in South Africa lost in England and almost lost in Australia even though Smith and Warner missed. They have not proved themselves

 

[Park cricketer]

Lol Pant can’t even get a game for India. Jadeja wouldn’t get picked only in India would you look at two specialist spinners. If India toured this summer they wouldn’t of won a test

If you feel so..Who am I to deny someone's confidence!

 

[Seedsfan]

If you feel so..Who am I to deny someone's confidence!

You got your combined side wrong. How does Pant play if he can’t even get picked for India?

 

[iluvparis]

Only Phatboy could argue with a straight face that the kiwi bowling line up is anywhere near Australia's

 

[Park cricketer]

You got your combined side wrong. How does Pant play if he can’t even get picked for India?

Pant will always be in the team for overseas tours. It's just that he's very young and a bit raw atm, hence he has his struggles to keep to the spinners in the subcontinent. He is fine as a keeper to the pacers (remember him making some record for caught behind catches in a test in Australia) but Saha as a pure keeper is probably the best glovesman in the world and his glovework especially against the spinners is unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure Pant will be back to the team in the NZ series. In any case, Pant is not competing with Gilchrist to get into a combined XI, rather he's competing with Tim Paine. As much as I like Paine and his cheeky attitude, Pant has as many overseas test hundreds at 22 years of age as Paine has first class hundreds at 34 years.

 

[Park cricketer]

Winning away lol they lost in South Africa lost in England and almost lost in Australia even though Smith and Warner missed. They have not proved themselves

Australia were a non rain interrupted session away from losing the series 3-1, let's not rewrite histories here.

The wheels were well and truly off during the Sydney test.

 

[frankrizzo]

'Definitely wasn't a NZ fan': New revelation in Archer scandal

NZME has uncovered video footage that appears to confirm the insult was shouted out.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Interesting that nzherald is reporting that the fan who racially abused archer was actually an English fan, two separate groups of nz fans have provided nz cricket with a description of the man and what he said and both say he had an english accent but was on the other side of the field to the barmy army supporters.

 

[PhatBoy]

Winning away lol they lost in South Africa lost in England and almost lost in Australia even though Smith and Warner missed. They have not proved themselves

Nearly.

Do you get a Nobel prize for nearly chemistry.

They didn’t lose. They won.

They’re plenty f***en proven compared to Australia.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

'Definitely wasn't a NZ fan': New revelation in Archer scandal

NZME has uncovered video footage that appears to confirm the insult was shouted out.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Interesting that nzherald is reporting that the fan who racially abused archer was actually an English fan, two separate groups of nz fans have provided nz cricket with a description of the man and what he said and both say he had an english accent but was on the other side of the field to the barmy army supporters.

Shades of South Africa v Australia in Perth, 2005-06. A South African player (I think it was pace bowler Nel) complained of being racially abused by a section of the crowd. It was discovered later that those responsible were a group of South African supporters. Can't recall if they were ex-pat or not.

 

[Seedsfan]

Nearly.

Do you get a Nobel prize for nearly chemistry.

They didn’t lose. They won.

They’re plenty f***en proven compared to Australia.

What have they proved they lost to England 4-1 South Africa 2-1 and beat an undermanned Australia 2-1 hardly a dominant side and before you say anything if we beat them and they had Kohli and Pujara suspended I would consider it a hollow victory

 

[Seedsfan]

Pant will always be in the team for overseas tours. It's just that he's very young and a bit raw atm, hence he has his struggles to keep to the spinners in the subcontinent. He is fine as a keeper to the pacers (remember him making some record for caught behind catches in a test in Australia) but Saha as a pure keeper is probably the best glovesman in the world and his glovework especially against the spinners is unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure Pant will be back to the team in the NZ series. In any case, Pant is not competing with Gilchrist to get into a combined XI, rather he's competing with Tim Paine. As much as I like Paine and his cheeky attitude, Pant has as many overseas test hundreds at 22 years of age as Paine has first class hundreds at 34 years.

He is competing with Saha and at the moment can’t get a game so he wouldn’t be getting picked in a combined side

 

[Seedsfan]

Australia were a non rain interrupted session away from losing the series 3-1, let's not rewrite histories here.

The wheels were well and truly off during the Sydney test.

That’s cricket but end of the day they won 2-1 with a narrow win after refusing to play at the Gabba and with Warner and Smith being suspended. Safe to say it’s a hollow win. You and I both know a competitive person like Kohli would be looking to come here and win next year to actually prove that they can and didn’t just benefit from cricket Australia and there ridiculous suspension

 

[Park cricketer]

That’s cricket but end of the day they won 2-1 with a narrow win after refusing to play at the Gabba and with Warner and Smith being suspended. Safe to say it’s a hollow win. You and I both know a competitive person like Kohli would be looking to come here and win next year to actually prove that they can and didn’t just benefit from cricket Australia and there ridiculous suspension

Firstly why do you keep referring to the Adelaide victory almost as if it was a lucky victory. Some 3 years back, Asad Shafiq came close to chasing down a 500 run target in the pink ball test at the Gabba and ultimately fell short by just about 40 or so runs. Does it mean that Australia were close to "losing" that test, not really. Australia were always the favourites, it was always a matter of when Pakistan would fall short. 4th innings chases like the Stokes one happen once in a decade maybe, or even rarer. Australia did well to come close to the target, but that last wicket partnership was always hanging by a thread.

As for the hollowness of the victory, do Australians feel that the test series win in India in 2004 was hollow because Tendulkar (tennis elbow) and Ganguly were missing for half the series, or because rain saved Australia at the Chepauk in the 2nd test (I was there) or because of the fact that a bitter internal feud between Ganguly and the head of the Vidarbha cricket association (who was none other than Shashank Manohar) meant that Australia were gifted with a greentop at Nagpur as Manohar wanted to teach Ganguly a lesson. I don't think so, many Australians celebrated that series victory as finally conquering the final frontier and rightly so too because none of these things were the fault of the Aussies. So why would Indians feel about their first ever series win in Australia as hollow when everyone waited for it for so many years. I mean, it's not like Kohli & co advised Warner to bring sandpaper onto the field is it..

 

[ioppolo]

Shades of South Africa v Australia in Perth, 2005-06. A South African player (I think it was pace bowler Nel) complained of being racially abused by a section of the crowd. It was discovered later that those responsible were a group of South African supporters. Can't recall if they were ex-pat or not.

Charl Langeveldt?

 

[WeMissYouMarkCoughlan]

4th innings chases like the Stokes one happen once in a decade maybe, or even rarer

It happened twice last year. Kusal Perrera vs South Africa which was a better innings in my opinion.

 

[PhatBoy]

Doesn’t change the fact that on average, he’s right. They’re incredibly rare. I can’t remember the last one before that.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Charl Langeveldt?

Could have been, I was fairly sure it was one of the bowlers fielding on the boundary.

 

[frankrizzo]

Shades of South Africa v Australia in Perth, 2005-06. A South African player (I think it was pace bowler Nel) complained of being racially abused by a section of the crowd. It was discovered later that those responsible were a group of South African supporters. Can't recall if they were ex-pat or not.

Crazy thing is archer came out after the game and said you would never have racist incidents like that back home in england, obviously thats laughable and naive if said before or after the culprit was found to be english but it also begs the question does archer not remember the reports of racist sexist and homophobic abuse from drunk english fans during the Manchester test?

ECB 'disturbed' by allegations of racist and sexist chanting during Manchester Test

A spectator, in a letter of complaint to the ECB, claimed that women were subjected to sexist chants while homophobic abuse was directed at some players by a group of people during the fourth Ashes Test.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Crazy thing is archer came out after the game and said you would never have racist incidents like that back home in england, obviously thats laughable and naive if said before or after the culprit was found to be english but it also begs the question does archer not remember the reports of racist sexist and homophobic abuse from drunk english fans during the Manchester test?

I don't know a lot about Archer, but based on some of things he's reported to have said in the short time he's been a Test player, I don't think he's particularly bright

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't know a lot about Archer, but based on some of things he's reported to have said in the short time he's been a Test player, I don't think he's particularly bright

It’s not to do with brightness.

He’s Bajan. Through a lot of the West Indies fan groups I’m a part of, its a huge huge thing for them to get past - a massive issue. And there’s also a fairly large chance that being a bit of a ‘great black hope’ for want of a better term, Archer has been treated like royalty by almost everyone he’s come in contact with in cricketing terms so I’d imagine he hasn’t come in direct contact with anything like that since he moved.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Charl Langeveldt?

I'm pretty sure it was Nel. This seems to be the incident (although it doesn't say it was South Africans abusing him. The fact they were using an Afrikaans insult perhaps suggests it though):

The South African cricket team was subjected to another volley of abuse in Afrikaans at the Test match at the MCG yesterday with one patron ejected from the area around the former Bay 13.

...

Police were not sure if the South African player taunted yesterday — understood to be Andre Nel — was being racially abused, as they did not understand the Afrikaans words used.

"Much of the taunts were in Afrikaans, one doesn't know what was said," said Gary Jamieson, regional assistant commissioner of Victoria Police.

Fan ejected from MCG for taunts

www.theage.com.au

SOUTH Africa paceman Andre Nel was racially abused for the second time this summer during Australia's first innings at the Sydney Cricket Ground yesterday.

The firebrand Nel, was branded a "Kaffir" just before the tea break, further sullying the reputation of Australian cricket crowds.

Racism reappears as crowd yobs give Andre the giant stirrer a gobful

www.smh.com.au

South Africa fast bowler Andre Nel said he was racially taunted on Wednesday by a spectator at the Sydney Cricket Ground, an issue that threatens to overshadow the Test series in Australia.

Nel told South Africa captain Graeme Smith he'd been subjected to racist abuse when he was fielding near the boundary on the third day of the third cricket Test.

Smith informed the umpires, who later told International Cricket Council match referee Chris Broad.

Australian cricket authorities sent extra security staff to that section of the crowd, but could not find the reported culprit.

Andre Nel 'racially taunted'

SA fast bowler Andre Nel says he was racially taunted by a spectator at the Sydney Cricket Ground, an issue that threatens to overshadow the Test series.

www.news24.com

 

[ioppolo]

I'm pretty sure it was Nel. This seems to be the incident (although it doesn't say it was South Africans abusing him. The fact they were using an Afrikaans insult perhaps suggests it though):

Nel has some Nguni ancestry then? Interesting considering he's quite white.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Nel has some Nguni ancestry then? Interesting considering he's quite white.

I don't know but I think he's just white, although presumably that wouldn't stop someone using a slur to try and get under his skin (particularly a South African expat in that era). Babe Ruth used to get N-word-lips when he was a kid and I'm pretty sure he was all Italian-American.

 

[Seedsfan]

Firstly why do you keep referring to the Adelaide victory almost as if it was a lucky victory. Some 3 years back, Asad Shafiq came close to chasing down a 500 run target in the pink ball test at the Gabba and ultimately fell short by just about 40 or so runs. Does it mean that Australia were close to "losing" that test, not really. Australia were always the favourites, it was always a matter of when Pakistan would fall short. 4th innings chases like the Stokes one happen once in a decade maybe, or even rarer. Australia did well to come close to the target, but that last wicket partnership was always hanging by a thread.

As for the hollowness of the victory, do Australians feel that the test series win in India in 2004 was hollow because Tendulkar (tennis elbow) and Ganguly were missing for half the series, or because rain saved Australia at the Chepauk in the 2nd test (I was there) or because of the fact that a bitter internal feud between Ganguly and the head of the Vidarbha cricket association (who was none other than Shashank Manohar) meant that Australia were gifted with a greentop at Nagpur as Manohar wanted to teach Ganguly a lesson. I don't think so, many Australians celebrated that series victory as finally conquering the final frontier and rightly so too because none of these things were the fault of the Aussies. So why would Indians feel about their first ever series win in Australia as hollow when everyone waited for it for so many years. I mean, it's not like Kohli & co advised Warner to bring sandpaper onto the field is it..

Remember Ponting didn’t play that series? Even with how you spin it that is was a resounding win in Australia they still got beaten badly in South Africa and England so hardly a dominant side that has proved a lot