Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

(Log in to remove this ad.)

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
55,705
73,757
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
Otherwise known as the Melbourne Heart(City).
And until the Abu Dhabi United Group /City Football Group bought them out, they struggled with this bland positioning, as they couldn't get the $$$ to drive success.

It's why the new Western United FC based out at Tarneit near the growth western growth corridor of Hoppers Crossing and Werribbee makes sense as the club will grow a distinctive character that represents those West Melbourne suburbs as they grow. Provided of course that the owners build that 15k stadium which was the linchpin of their bid, and sink enough working capital into the club.
 

NoobPie

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2016
4,553
2,987
AFL Club
Collingwood
And until the Abu Dhabi United Group /City Football Group bought them out, they struggled with this bland positioning, as they couldn't get the $$$ to drive success.

It's why the new Western United FC based out at Tarneit near the growth western growth corridor of Hoppers Crossing and Werribbee makes sense as the club will grow a distinctive character that represents those West Melbourne suburbs as they grow. Provided of course that the owners build that 15k stadium which was the linchpin of their bid, and sink enough working capital into the club.

Western United FC only seems to make sense to non-Melbournians
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,505
6,175
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1

NoobPie

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2016
4,553
2,987
AFL Club
Collingwood

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
55,705
73,757
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
500,000 people catchment is the sort of size you want for a national sports team.

AFL is the most expensive club set up to run re annual revenues needed to function. soccer is in the middle, basketball at the bottom of the men's national sports teams.

The Wyndham growth corridor is Australia’s fastest growing municipality. By 2041, Wyndham is forecast to double in population to almost 490,000 residents. A future employment precinct in Werribee is also projected to drive 58,000 jobs to the region
 

Dogs till i die

Club Legend
Dec 30, 2003
1,154
915
Melbourne western region
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Bulldogs / Willy / Palace
Apparently Western United's planned stadium will cost $180 million.

Who exactly is paying for this?
Personally doubtful this new stadium will ever get built. Club could be in trouble after 3 years if they dont play where their future supporters are based. If they play at AAMI, GMHBA and some at Mars stadium for several years while they contemplate building their stadium it might come too late. Hope the owners have deep pockets and are in it for the long term.

Could it be another Gold Coast United?
 

Billy ray

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 10, 2013
8,965
13,409
The Valley near the Alley
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Personally doubtful this new stadium will ever get built. Club could be in trouble after 3 years if they dont play where their future supporters are based. If they play at AAMI, GMHBA and some at Mars stadium for several years while they contemplate building their stadium it might come too late. Hope the owners have deep pockets and are in it for the long term.

Could it be another Gold Coast United?
Graveyard!
 

NoobPie

Premiership Player
Sep 21, 2016
4,553
2,987
AFL Club
Collingwood
500,000 people catchment is the sort of size you want for a national sports team.

AFL is the most expensive club set up to run re annual revenues needed to function. soccer is in the middle, basketball at the bottom of the men's national sports teams.

The Wyndham growth corridor is Australia’s fastest growing municipality. By 2041, Wyndham is forecast to double in population to almost 490,000 residents. A future employment precinct in Werribee is also projected to drive 58,000 jobs to the region
500k in 20 years time with precisely zero evidence that people even in Werribee are going to in the least bit identify with this team from Tarneit

Melbourne victory are the only profit making soccer franchise in the country and their exclusive catchment was all of Melbourne - a city with a decent soccer following that had no non ethnic team they could identify with previously

People talk about the Gold coast having no identity but it's been a real "place" for decades
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Our Game

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2014
1,997
1,156
Sandringham
AFL Club
Geelong
500,000 people catchment is the sort of size you want for a national sports team.

AFL is the most expensive club set up to run re annual revenues needed to function. soccer is in the middle, basketball at the bottom of the men's national sports teams.

The Wyndham growth corridor is Australia’s fastest growing municipality. By 2041, Wyndham is forecast to double in population to almost 490,000 residents. A future employment precinct in Werribee is also projected to drive 58,000 jobs to the region
The Western suburbs and Geelong have close to 2 million people so there are plenty to market too but the new club will have to spend a heap on marketing as most of the new migrants to this area esp the Indians are not from soccer loving countries.
It will be a long slow grind similar to the Gold Coast IMHO and playing out of Kardinia Park for at least 2 years wont help either.
 

BobbyMorri

Norm Smith Medallist
May 4, 2009
6,679
4,836
Tasmania
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Scunny, Furth
I think we can all agree that at least they are based on something geographic, unlike what heart was. I don't trust the FFA decision making, so I am expecting this to flop badly TBH due to a lack of diligence.

Also, 180 mil is not a cheap stadium. Surely you can make one cheaper than this. In the UK, you can get a 15K stadium for 30mil pound.. Surely a cheap stadium in Australia wouldn't cost much more than that.

 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
32,193
29,585
Launceston
AFL Club
Carlton
I think we can all agree that at least they are based on something geographic, unlike what heart was. I don't trust the FFA decision making, so I am expecting this to flop badly TBH due to a lack of diligence.

Also, 180 mil is not a cheap stadium. Surely you can make one cheaper than this. In the UK, you can get a 15K stadium for 30mil pound.. Surely a cheap stadium in Australia wouldn't cost much more than that.

Youd be suprised.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
27,666
13,410
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
I think we can all agree that at least they are based on something geographic, unlike what heart was. I don't trust the FFA decision making, so I am expecting this to flop badly TBH due to a lack of diligence.

Also, 180 mil is not a cheap stadium. Surely you can make one cheaper than this. In the UK, you can get a 15K stadium for 30mil pound.. Surely a cheap stadium in Australia wouldn't cost much more than that.
A cheap stadium yes.

A good stadium, hell no.

But I'd be surprised if that sort of money ever got spent.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
27,666
13,410
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
Q: what sort of stadium are you saying this is to be?
My guess is that they'll build a small capacity venue when it becomes obvious that they're not going to come anywhere near filling 15,000 seats on a consistent basis. Something like a main grandstand holding 3 or 4,000 with capacity for another few thousand in the outer. Partly for the above reason, but also partly to get it done quickly to give the club a chance. I'd be surprised if they lasted more than 2 seasons based out of Geelong whilst still maintaining to be a Melbourne team.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
55,705
73,757
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
Q: what sort of stadium are you saying this is to be?
$10,000 per seat if you want excellent corporate facilities and the latest technology is pretty standard minimum for small stadiums if you don't have to do major renovations, restricted where you can work etc. $15,000 per seat for the bigger 50,000+ stadiums is standard these days.
 

Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
18,505
6,175
Tootgarook
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Renault F1
$10,000 per seat if you want excellent corporate facilities and the latest technology is pretty standard minimum for small stadiums if you don't have to do major renovations, restricted where you can work etc. $15,000 per seat for the bigger 50,000+ stadiums is standard these days.
Wonder how well used the Corporate facilities are - last time I was at AAMI (for a Storm game) I was surprised how sparsely used they were.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
55,705
73,757
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
Wonder how well used the Corporate facilities are - last time I was at AAMI (for a Storm game) I was surprised how sparsely used they were.
No idea, but Western United is about a 20-25 year property development play. The developers will play a big part in building housing to double the population in the existing catchment over that period.

They will try and get their money back over that period because they wont get it over 5-10 years. A-League clubs all lose money except for Melbourne United and Sydney FC in a very good year. The owners have been subsidising them, just like the AFL has been, and will be subsidising GC and GWS for most if not all of the next decade as well as this one.

They's why the private owners of A-League clubs wanted autonomy from FFA. They wanted some control if they were going to continue susbsiding the A-League clubs and its very existence.

In Oz, the world game clubs will have to be privately owned, not community membership owned for a long time to come.

If the developers lose their money then that is their problem. Once the stadium is built it could become a very cheap asset for someone if the property developers go belly up. Planning for anything less than a 20 year payback would be foolish. If it happens earlier, then its cream.
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
1,380
754
AFL Club
GWS
SMH 21.7.19 M.Knox
(also FoxSports report)

CA has been exposed, & severely embarassed, at providing, knowingly, false "participant numbers". It claimed 1,650,000 participants for year ending 30.6. 2019; which included 684,356 registered players. An SMH count & analysis reveals, however, "...the number of unique cricketers playing during the past two years is 247,060..."!

The cause of the deliberate overcounting is the same player being counted multiple times for various formats of cricket; & CA's "estimate" of c. 950,000 players involved in school physical education cricket classes.

I am almost certain the FFA has similar issues with its claimed 2018 Official registered 1,851,683 "participant numbers".

Peruse the 2018 AF Participant Thread - post #32, above on BF's Footy Industry Sticky Thread, where Munro Mike has done the most expert analysis of both AFL & FFA & AusPlay participant nos. I have ever read.
He has revealed soccer's very "suspicious" recent HUGE growth in one-off Community Events, one-off Gala Day etc. soccer participants etc.- whilst, simultaneously, soccer CLUB nos. have, curiously, had very little growth in some areas.
School & community soccer/soccer programs & futsal (school & community) is played nearly 11 months of the year- thus the same players are far more likely to be counted, as "participants", multiple times (unlike AF, RL, & RU which are played for c. 5 months pa; & which are far more strenuous/longer recovery times, so few play multiple formats).



I expect CA will be publicly castigated for its duplicity; & its claims for funding from govts., councils, sponsors etc, based on grossly inflated participant numbers.

Anecdotally, cricket is having very good growth in females playing club cricket- but males from 16, & adult males, have been in a significant decline for many years; & many cricket clubs have closed. It seems many older male teenagers & adults don't want to spend a whole day playing cricket; & even for shorter matches, there is much player "inactivity". CA is changing its formats for kids' cricket, to make it more exciting, & to allow kids more involvement.
 
Last edited:

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
55,705
73,757
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
SMH 21.7.19 M.Knox
(also FoxSports report)

CA has been exposed, & severely embarassed, at providing, knowingly, false "participant numbers". It claimed 1,650,000 participants for year ending 30.6. 2019; which included 684,356 registered players. An SMH count & analysis reveals, however, "...the number of unique cricketers playing during the past two years is 247,060..."!

The cause of the deliberate overcounting is the same player being counted multiple times for various formats of cricket; & CA's "estimate" of c. 950,000 players involved in school physical education classes.

I am almost certain the FFA has similar issues with its claimed 2018 Official registered 1,851,683 "participant numbers".

Peruse the 2018 AF Participant Thread - post #32, above on BF's Footy Industry Sticky Thread, where Munro Mike has done the most expert analysis of both AFL & FFA & AusPlay participant nos. I have ever read.
He has revealed soccer's very "suspicious" recent HUGE growth in one-off Community Events, one-off Gala Day etc. soccer participants etc.- whilst, simultaneously, soccer CLUB nos. have, curiously, had very little growth in some areas.
School & community soccer/soccer programs & futsal (school & community) is played nearly 11 months of the year- thus the same players are far more likely to be counted, as "participants", multiple times (unlike AF, RL, & RU which are played for c. 5 months pa; & which are are far more strenuous/longer recovery times, so few play multiple formats).



I expect CA will be publicly castigated for its duplicity; & its claims for funding from govts., councils, sponsors etc, based on grossly inflated participant numbers.

Anecdotally, cricket is having very good growth in females playing club cricket- but males from 16, & adult males, have been in a significant decline for many years; & many cricket clubs have closed. It seems many older male jnrs & adults don't want to spend a whole day playing cricket; & even for shorter matches, there is much player "inactivity". CA is changing its formats for kids' cricket, to make it more exciting, & to allow kids more involvement.
The 2011 Argus Review win at all costs strategies fully implemented?? James Sutherland got out before this crap hit the fan.
 

BobbyMorri

Norm Smith Medallist
May 4, 2009
6,679
4,836
Tasmania
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Scunny, Furth

Wow, asking for a little bit there Western United/FFA. They can bugger off TBH. Prefer that money spent elsewhere that actually keeps the money in the state. An actual football/soccer ground which can host an FFA cup game for one. Plus there is no value here for the Tass Taxpayer.

In comparison, the NBL asked for 300K for the 9 team NBL Blitz pre-season comp with clinics all around the state. And North get 500K per game( I think, but I am in the right forum if I got that wrong)
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom