Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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Gigantor

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The point is the AFL has 27 hours of football for half the year averaging 450k viewers per hour (FTA and STV) or about 18 at 600k if you account for overlapping games. Not to mention the 35k average going to games
It's amazing how often this important point is forgotten.

The AFL maintains a high level of interest across 27 hours of football every week for 27 weeks per annum. The sheer volume of interest is why the AFL industry kills it in regard to sponsorship revenue, and daylight is second.

The world cup (which I too follow closely), is four solid weeks every four years. And even then, it's FIFA pulling in the big bucks (the FFA makes a tidy sum for appearing in the group stages, of which 95% is immediately gobbled up in expenses of competing).

You just have to look at the sponsorship situation, the socceroos can sometimes go 18 months without a naming rights sponsor.
 

NoobPie

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So you understand where it comes from.

Not sure the relevance of the AFL data, damn impressive if it floats your boat.

Apologies, I have previously got the impression you think we should be comparing the A League and the NRL with the state football leagues because there is representative (and thus higher) competitions in those codes. Apologies if I have misinterpreted you on this occasion
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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That's what the AFL said, but there was so much anti soccer rhetoric at the time which i put down to fear. Fear that kids would take to soccer.
For non AFL fans it came over as insular by the AFL and some AFL fans.
I really can't see any fear of the biggest sporting event in the world coming to Australia, if it gets kids playing sport and away from computer games.
I await the obvious attacks by the insular fans
99% of AFL fans would’ve loved to see the WC in Australia but no organisation in their right mind would’ve copped what soccer was trying to impose on the AFL. I can’t believe any soccer fan can actually not understand this and can actually try make the AFL the bad guys.
 

The_Wookie

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It's amazing how often this important point is forgotten.

The AFL maintains a high level of interest across 27 hours of football every week for 27 weeks per annum. The sheer volume of interest is why the AFL industry kills it in regard to sponsorship revenue, and daylight is second.

The world cup (which I too follow closely), is four solid weeks every four years. And even then, it's FIFA pulling in the big bucks (the FFA makes a tidy sum for appearing in the group stages, of which 95% is immediately gobbled up in expenses of competing).
Its not just the 4 weeks it goes for. Its the other FIFA conditions regarding stadium vacancy - including the requirement that Stadiums not be used for 4 weeks before and after the event, and a lack of clarification on what FIFA means to be a "major event" - given these arent allowed to be held during the period. Its the planning modifications to a major stadium, without actually telling stadium management first (at the MCG) which would have put the stadium out of order even further. (Ive done a fairly extensive write up on it here.)
 

Kwality

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Apologies, I have previously got the impression you think we should be comparing the A League and the NRL with the state football leagues because there is representative (and thus higher) competitions in those codes. Apologies if I have misinterpreted you on this occasion
We all understand the State leagues are 2nd tier ( Subi :thumbsu: ), AFL is the top level, the GF the best we've got.
Your constant need to compare it with a 4th or 5th level soccer comp is disingenuous.

Some of your ilk battle to understand the role of Origin & NEED to compare the codes at GF level, when Jack the blind miner sees through them. IF you were a sports fan IMHO you would understand the difference in psyche of the competitions, given Origin came out of Subi :thumbsu: .
 

Gigantor

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We all understand the State leagues are 2nd tier ( Subi :thumbsu: ), AFL is the top level, the GF the best we've got.
Your constant need to compare it with a 4th or 5th level soccer comp is disingenuous.

Some of your ilk battle to understand the role of Origin & NEED to compare the codes at GF level, when Jack the blind miner sees through them. IF you were a sports fan IMHO you would understand the difference in psyche of the competitions, given Origin came out of Subi :thumbsu: .
SOO is important to the NRL, but it's only 3 games (plus a huge distraction from the home and away season).

It's the only time they are getting 50+k attendances (outside of the grand final), whereas the AFL is getting at least one of these at least once every couple of weeks right through the season.
 

abcde12345

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Only seen it very recently, did I miss a link that supports it?
Regular season: Aggregate of 89.11 million (LINK) over 198 games - average of just over 450k per game (over 1.35 million viewing hours per games simplifying to 3 hours per game). This does not take into account overlapping games.

When considering the fact that the two Saturday night games typically run at exactly the same time, as well as two earlier Saturday games and the Sunday game, there are 6 games worth of "unique" hours (it is worth noting that this is inexact however as weeks with Thursday night games, Easter and ANZAC round etc mess the assumptions up).

Finals: Aggregate of 14.335 million (same link as above) over 9 games - average of almost 1.6 million per game (almost 4.8 viewing hours per game using the above simplifications).

Overall: Aggregate of 103.445 million over 207 game - average of just under 500k per game (just shy of 1.5 million viewing hours per game).
 

Kwality

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SOO is important to the NRL, but it's only 3 games (plus a huge distraction from the home and away season).

It's the only time they are getting 50+k attendances (outside of the grand final), whereas the AFL is getting at least one of these at least once every couple of weeks right through the season.
Good to see we understand each other.
 

NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
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Regular season: Aggregate of 89.11 million (LINK) over 198 games - average of just over 450k per game (over 1.35 million viewing hours per games simplifying to 3 hours per game). This does not take into account overlapping games.

When considering the fact that the two Saturday night games typically run at exactly the same time, as well as two earlier Saturday games and the Sunday game, there are 6 games worth of "unique" hours (it is worth noting that this is inexact however as weeks with Thursday night games, Easter and ANZAC round etc mess the assumptions up).

Finals: Aggregate of 14.335 million (same link as above) over 9 games - average of almost 1.6 million per game (almost 4.8 viewing hours per game using the above simplifications).

Overall: Aggregate of 103.445 million over 207 game - average of just under 500k per game (just shy of 1.5 million viewing hours per game).

Yep

So there are 50 games that are overlapping over the year just skimming through the fixture which is one quarter of the games.

Adjusting this 450k (198/(198-50)) gives 602K
 

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NoobPie

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We all understand the State leagues are 2nd tier ( Subi :thumbsu: ), AFL is the top level, the GF the best we've got.
Your constant need to compare it with a 4th or 5th level soccer comp is disingenuous.

Some of your ilk battle to understand the role of Origin & NEED to compare the codes at GF level, when Jack the blind miner sees through them. IF you were a sports fan IMHO you would understand the difference in psyche of the competitions, given Origin came out of Subi :thumbsu: .

You miss the point yet again.

It is got nothing to do with comparing the AFL ratings to a "4th or 5th level soccer comp"

The AFL had over 300 million adult viewer hours on FTA and STV this season. The last A League season has about 15 million. Nobody is making that comparison and suggesting it tells the full story of relative popularity of the sports....

....But this thread started when Bobbi Mori was claiming some great latent support for soccer. But if you add up all the hours of live pro soccer watched, including the world cup pro european leagues etc (probably thousands of hours of content), I would say you are still very unlikely to get over 100 million adult hours in Australia based on available information.

For some reason you can't follow an argument which I guess isn't your fault but it can be quite annoying at times
 

Kwality

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You miss the point yet again.

It is got nothing to do with comparing the AFL ratings to a "4th or 5th level soccer comp"

The AFL had over 300 million adult viewer hours on FTA and STV this season. The last A League season has about 15 million. Nobody is making that comparison and suggesting it tells the full story of relative popularity of the sports....

....But this thread started when Bobbi Mori was claiming some great latent support for soccer. But if you add up all the hours of live pro soccer watched, including the world cup pro european leagues etc (probably thousands of hours of content), I would say you are still very unlikely to get over 100 million adult hours in Australia based on available information.

For some reason you can't follow an argument which I guess isn't your fault but it can be quite annoying at times
I dont miss the point, seems the numbers you have recently started using have been linked to Sep 30. The discussion you (again) dont link is not new, the soccer the sleeping giant claim is not a recent invention.

Was it you who claimed its fair to compare GFs code v code. Thru Aussie Rules eyes it understandable, disingenuous though it is.

Sorry to question your process to compare codes, its as a life long AFL supporter who loves sport.
 

NoobPie

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I dont miss the point, seems the numbers you have recently started using have been linked to Sep 30. The discussion you (again) dont link is not new, the soccer the sleeping giant claim is not a recent invention.


Was it you who claimed its fair to compare GFs code v code. Thru Aussie Rules eyes it understandable, disingenuous though it is.

Sorry to question your process to compare codes, its as a life long AFL supporter who loves sport.

Yeah, nah, you miss the point
 

abcde12345

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The irony of a gws fan questioning money spent on stadiums based on crowds - how many times has gws averaged over 50% capacity at spotless for a season.
This is a pretty bizarre comment I think.

The difference in spend is very material to the discussion. Sydney Showground Stadium cost $65m to develop. Parramatta Stadium cost $300m (?). That's almost five times the cost. The AFL also threw in a portion of the redevelopment cost ($14m if I read correctly later in the thread - 20% of the total redevelopment cost which is quite significant). Has the A-League or the NRL contributed anything to the redevelopment of Parramatta Stadium? I suspect this is not the case, but I do not know for sure.

To add more weight to the discussion, the NRL was only able to average just over 19k to the ground across the 15 games held there last season (including finals). This is likely to drop further as the new stadium appeal wears off and it becomes more tenanted. If soccer also struggles to get under 2/3 of the capacity regularly, is it not reasonable to suggest that public pressure could start mounting against the expensive rebuild of the SFS and ANZ Stadium (estimated to cost approximately 1.5 billion combined).

I would suspect that, if crowds drop off after a couple of seasons, people will very much begin to question the responsibility of a $1.8b spend across three state of the art stadiums when the state government to my knowledge isn't exactly flush for funds. Perhaps a major renewal program across the three stadiums might have been more logical and less expensive.

Also just to answer the question, the Giants have averaged over 50% capacity at Giants Stadium 3 times, as well as an average of 1 under 50% once, out of a total of eight seasons. These four seasons were the past four consecutive seasons, which is a promising trend if nothing else.

Afl fans are older & less tech savvy.
Another weird one. I think if you're attributing the drop off in A-League viewership entirely to online streaming then you're clutching at straws. Consider the flipside - if this were true, why would Foxtel be unhappy with the deal as it stands. They hold the online streaming rights via Kayo (unless there is another source that the a-league fans are attributing to the fall?).

Biggest non derby crowd for WSW despite heavy rain & zero marketing - crushes gws.
Soccer is a mature and established player in the region (in fact - I think it is fair to say that western Sydney is the heartland of soccer in Australia). In comparison, AR and GWS are still in their early growth phase. I would hope the top league of soccer in the country, in a bigger and more accessible stadium nonetheless, would be outdrawing the Giants. This is not exactly a problem for the AFL. If the Giants can get to that 20k average mark (very tough to do in the smaller stadium due to the expensive tickets) within 20 years, then that is complete success.

Hopefully the club run commission can stabilise the league a bit. Sporting optionality is always a good thing IMO.
 
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BobbyMorri

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You miss the point yet again.

It is got nothing to do with comparing the AFL ratings to a "4th or 5th level soccer comp"

The AFL had over 300 million adult viewer hours on FTA and STV this season. The last A League season has about 15 million. Nobody is making that comparison and suggesting it tells the full story of relative popularity of the sports....

....But this thread started when Bobbi Mori was claiming some great latent support for soccer. But if you add up all the hours of live pro soccer watched, including the world cup pro european leagues etc (probably thousands of hours of content), I would say you are still very unlikely to get over 100 million adult hours in Australia based on available information.

For some reason you can't follow an argument which I guess isn't your fault but it can be quite annoying at times
you are the one who seems to keep comparing soccer support to the AFL/NRL. All i said was that soccer has a large support base, and considering it is a top 5 sport in this country, I think that is a fair statement to make.

You obviously don't think that. The fact of the matter is neither of us is right or wrong. large is relative to what we think it is in the end. I hate to be a large bore in this small argument but it really is a pointless thing to discuss
 

NoobPie

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you are the one who seems to keep comparing soccer support to the AFL/NRL. All i said was that soccer has a large support base, and considering it is a top 5 sport in this country, I think that is a fair statement to make.

You obviously don't think that. The fact of the matter is neither of us is right or wrong. large is relative to what we think it is in the end. I hate to be a large bore in this small argument but it really is a pointless thing to discuss
It is true that "large" is subjective and, if in this case you want to stretch its definition to include soccer's support in this country - presumably to distinguish from sports like european handball and polo - then whatever floats your boat I guess


If you recall though, this discussion started when you referring to the FFA / A League said "they have massively failed here and can do way better"

I am saying that they can't do way better and it is unshakable delusion of hard core soccer fans about the level of popularity of soccer in Australia that leads to expectations being raised ridiculously and subsequent let downs and all of the finger pointing and conspiracy theorising that follows.


There are three genuinely big pro team sports in Australia, and four if you consider how much netball achieves as a women's sport compared to anything else on the planet.

Rugby union, soccer and basketball are not in the same category as those sports - I would call them "minor" sports as opposed to "niche" sports - but only the supporters of one of them appears perennially deluded about that fact.
 

BobbyMorri

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If you recall though, this discussion started when you referring to the FFA / A League said "they have massively failed here and can do way better"

I am saying that they can't do way better and it is unshakable delusion of hard core soccer fans about the level of popularity of soccer in Australia that leads to expectations being raised ridiculously and subsequent let downs and all of the finger pointing and conspiracy theorising that follows.
So the A-league has record ratings and crowds at the moment. They are currently at the peak and has the full engagement of the football community.

cool. Go troll somewhere else.
 

BobbyMorri

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Sat - 19k (metro FTA), - no regs available
Sun - 14k (metro FTA) - no regs available
wow, thats bad. I also saw your tweet regarding the fact the nbl didn't make the Fox top 20 last night (cutoff at 26k) on friday.

I think the NBL suffers from a lack of consistency. I never know when the game is on, as a casual fan. either way, still a work in progress regarding TV ratings then. they have been getting great crowds at least. I still think they have made the right move and think TV ratings will grow over time. But I guess they can't get any smaller.
 

Kwality

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Which is pretty much what he said too. He is a known w***er but does seem to get the job done.
He's at it again, getting the job done:
Tony McEvoy remembers the Melbourne Cup being unmatched for romance and Australiana. School days coming to a giddy halt when the call was played over the loudspeaker.
What about now? McEvoy adjusts his flat cap on Monday at Royal Randwick, puts down his binoculars and laments the internationalisation of the first Tuesday in November and claims The Everest has become the gallop that most represents, and increasingly fascinates, the nation.

“The Melbourne Cup has lost its Australian-ness,”
says the trainer of Sunlight in Saturday’s $14m sprint at Sydney’s Royal Randwick. “This is our big race now. This is Australia’s race. The internationals are going to come for this, too, but over the years we’ve been too good for them at this distance (1200m). We can’t compete with them at the staying distance (3200m) of a Melbourne Cup. You look at all the results of all the staying races in the country and the winners are all imports, sadly.”


Been of the view the growth of the BBL was sport at its best, The Everest may surpass it in growth terms.
 

BringBackTorps

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The AFL had over 300 million adult[?] viewer hours on FTA and STV this season. The last A League season has about 15 million. Nobody is making that comparison and suggesting it tells the full story of relative popularity of the sports....
.... But if you add up all the hours of live pro soccer watched, including the world cup pro european leagues etc (probably thousands of hours of content), I would say you are still very unlikely to get over 100 million[?] adult hours in Australia based on available information.
Are the ratings broken up into adult & jnr? When is one considered an "adult"? If so, what are the corresponding ratings for junior viewers in AF & soccer?

Where did the "100 million adult hours" figure, for all local & foreign soccer live viewing hours, come from? And how accurate is this figure? If correct, it is very impressive.
Can you provide an estimate of what the various media organisations in Australia are paying for foreign domestic Leagues & international etc. soccer broadcasts?

In the BF "Next Media Rights" thread, you very ambitiously claimed the AFL can probably expect another c. 50% increase in its total Rights, in the next Agreement. This conflicts with what virtually all MSM independent experts are predicting (flat, or less). Also, AFL average ratings, IIRC, have decreased by c. 15% (total FTA & Foxtel) for H & A matches over c. 15 years (A very worrying, long term decline, for the AFL; & goal scoring- with its very valuable, additional advertising time slots- is also in decline).

What is the basis for your belief a 50% increase in the Rights $ is again likely?

IMO, it appears probable a 19th team, Tasmania, will enter the AFL, c. 2025. This will add an extra 11 H & A matches pa- & these 11 matches will probably be played in Prime Time on Thursday nights (making 19 Thursday night matches pa, from the current 8). The AFL season will go from 198 - 209 H & A games, an increase of 6 %.
What do you think these 11 extra Thurs. night Prime Time matches might be worth for the AFL Rights?
 
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Aussie in exile

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I think the main reason is that non-AFL fans are uneducated about the sporting landscape in Australia. Many are still of the view that the Government handed Docklands over to the AFL for nothing. Many don't understand that it's the AFL which makes a 100,000 capacity stadium like the MCG possible.

There was this expectation that the AFL should not play their season, and you'd have to wonder what kind of a moron would have such an expectation?

Then there was surprise expressed by these fans that the AFL had long-term leases over their two primary stadiums.

Then there was surprise by these fans that the Government had zero sway over Docklands and that the AFL's hold on it was watertight. There were calls to change the laws! To send in the troops!

Then there was surprise that even getting a hold of the MCG was going to result in tens of millions of dollars in compensation being paid to the AFL.

Soon after, we received one vote...
A lot of sports fans are uneducated, including AFL fans who's behaviour at times inside and outside the grounds is unacceptable through not being able to handle the grog.
 

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