Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

BringBackTorps

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1. The Australian B.Read 25.10
Outgoing NRL Chairman P. Beattie favours a 2nd team in Brisbane, & for the NRL to become a 17 team comp. only, possibly c. 2023



Courier Mail P. Badel 30.11
Incoming NRL Chairman P. V'landys has also expressed similar sentiments

P. Badel wrote, re the NRL "Whilst mindful of the AFL threat in Queensland...", it wants to ensure Qld. remains strong in State Of Origin (only 15% of all NRL players are eligible to play for Qld.).

V'landys said

" I can see 17 teams in the next broadcast deal working...A second team in Brisbane is 100 per cent an option"
" We want to dominate the market in Queensland. Forget wasting millions in rusted-on AFL states..." .


(in link, next to "Sort By" , click on "Old" to reveal the full transcript of Badel's article, which was behind the CM paywall)


2. Despite the Western Force attracting good RU crowds (& a large population in Perth of expatriate British, South African, NZ- & some NSW/Qld), the likelyhood of an NRL team in Perth team is being downgraded. A NRL Sydney team relocation seems very unlikely in the next 5 years.

AF has strong GR regd. player competition nos. in SEQ (similar to GR regd. contact RL nos.)- perhaps the NRL desires to protect its base in SEQ (NRL ratings, however, FAR exceed AFL telecasts).
It appears the NRL has made the strategic decision to prioritise the fortification of its Qld. base against further GR AF advances in Qld. (as opposed to expanding to AF heartlands).



EDIT:

This 15.12. 2018 WWOS report announced a trial in 2019 to make jnr RL less competitive- designed to increase participant nos.

Reporter S. Marshall said on 15.12.18, re GR RL in 2017 "..out of 140,000 nationally registered players, 40,000 left, mainly due apparently to a negative experience".
(This figure cannot be correct, it was probably only about 4,000 that left! GR male contact RL nos. have been in decline for decades).

 
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Gigantor

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much of this can be explained by Western United crowds having the same effect as GWS/Gold Coast did on the AFL ones.
Yes, to an extent.
Worth noting that Wanderers have almost doubled last year's average having moved into their new stadium, which should have more than made up for the admission of WU.
The fact is that of the remaining 9 clubs, 7 or 8 have dropped attendances since last year (following five years of year on year decreases).
 

NoobPie

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Yes, to an extent.
Worth noting that Wanderers have almost doubled last year's average having moved into their new stadium, which should have more than made up for the admission of WU.
The fact is that of the remaining 9 clubs, 7 or 8 have dropped attendances since last year (following five years of year on year decreases).
Exactly. No doubt interest is still dropping. Maybe it bottoms out this year but I have thought that for the last few years and it has kept falling.

Foxtel ratings are clearly heading south again as well

33K, 31K and 17K on Friday night and Saturday and neither of yesterday's two games made the 31K cut off. Also, the very week ABC primary channel ratings appear like they are no longer being released

Dire.
 

I Remember Bluey

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Don't know if these are of any use, or if they are in the right thread, If not just ditch them The_Wookie


Nine Network tops 2019 ratings ending Seven’s 12-year winning streak

TOP 20 PROGRAMS OF 2019
1. State of Origin Rugby League: Qld v NSW 1st Match, Nine, 3.23 million
2. AFL Grand Final: Richmond v GWS, Seven, 2.96 million
3. State of Origin Rugby League: NSW v Qld 3rd Match, Nine, 2.91 million
4. State Of Origin Rugby League NSW v Qld 2nd match, Nine, 2.84 million
5. NRL Grand Final Day Match, Nine, 2.66 million
6. 2019 Australian Open Men's Final, Nine, 2.11 million
7. Married At First Sight, Nine, 1.95 million
8. 2019 Melbourne Cup Carnival Race, 10, 1.92 million
9. Lego Masters, Nine, 1.89 million
10. 2019 Australian Open Women’s Final, Nine, 1.60 million
11. Seven News, 1.50 million
12. Seven News Sunday, 1.50 million
13. Ninja Warrior, Nine, 1.44 million
14. Seven News/Today Tonight, 1.44 million
15. The Voice, Nine, 1.42 million
16. The Block, Nine, 1.41 million
17. The All New Monty, Seven, 1.40 million
18. My Kitchen Rules, Seven, 1.35 million
19. The Masked Singer, 10, 1.34 million
20. Nine News Sunday, 1.29 million
Source: OzTam and RegionalTam
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Don't know if these are of any use, or if they are in the right thread, If not just ditch them The_Wookie


Nine Network tops 2019 ratings ending Seven’s 12-year winning streak

TOP 20 PROGRAMS OF 2019
1. State of Origin Rugby League: Qld v NSW 1st Match, Nine, 3.23 million
2. AFL Grand Final: Richmond v GWS, Seven, 2.96 million
3. State of Origin Rugby League: NSW v Qld 3rd Match, Nine, 2.91 million
4. State Of Origin Rugby League NSW v Qld 2nd match, Nine, 2.84 million
5. NRL Grand Final Day Match, Nine, 2.66 million
6. 2019 Australian Open Men's Final, Nine, 2.11 million
7. Married At First Sight, Nine, 1.95 million
8. 2019 Melbourne Cup Carnival Race, 10, 1.92 million
9. Lego Masters, Nine, 1.89 million
10. 2019 Australian Open Women’s Final, Nine, 1.60 million
11. Seven News, 1.50 million
12. Seven News Sunday, 1.50 million
13. Ninja Warrior, Nine, 1.44 million
14. Seven News/Today Tonight, 1.44 million
15. The Voice, Nine, 1.42 million
16. The Block, Nine, 1.41 million
17. The All New Monty, Seven, 1.40 million
18. My Kitchen Rules, Seven, 1.35 million
19. The Masked Singer, 10, 1.34 million
20. Nine News Sunday, 1.29 million
Source: OzTam and RegionalTam
Top 6 are sports programs. 8 of top are 10 sports programs, then 0 of next 10 are sports are sports programs.

People watch (sports) events in big numbers, especially women.

Share of advertising revenue also reflects volume of major sports programing by the 3 commercial networks.
SHARE OF TV ADVERTISING REVENUE
1. Nine Network: 40.4 per cent (+2.3 per cent)
2. Seven Network: 38.5 per cent (-0.2 per cent)
3. 10 Network: 21.1 per cent (-2.1 per cent)
 

Ned_Flanders

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Exactly. No doubt interest is still dropping. Maybe it bottoms out this year but I have thought that for the last few years and it has kept falling.

Foxtel ratings are clearly heading south again as well

33K, 31K and 17K on Friday night and Saturday and neither of yesterday's two games made the 31K cut off. Also, the very week ABC primary channel ratings appear like they are no longer being released

Dire.
I know they have other issues, but David Gallop should be banned from running any sporting organisation ever again. The guy is like a ******* dementor sucking the popularity out of any sport he touches
 

NoobPie

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Top 6 are sports programs. 8 of top are 10 sports programs, then 0 of next 10 are sports are sports programs.

People watch (sports) events in big numbers, especially women.

Share of advertising revenue also reflects volume of major sports programing by the 3 commercial networks.
SHARE OF TV ADVERTISING REVENUE
1. Nine Network: 40.4 per cent (+2.3 per cent)
2. Seven Network: 38.5 per cent (-0.2 per cent)
3. 10 Network: 21.1 per cent (-2.1 per cent)
I suspect there would be a few more sports programs if you combined the foxtel simulcasts for the AFL finals particularly
 

NoobPie

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I know they have other issues, but David Gallop should be banned from running any sporting organisation ever again. The guy is like a ******* dementor sucking the popularity out of any sport he touches

Is that fair though? Average attendances peaked at the end of his reign at the NRL

"CEO of sports administration" seems to be a guarantor for public hatred. He has spent the best part of two decades in such roles which probably explains how much loathing there is towards him
 

RussellEbertHandball

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I know they have other issues, but David Gallop should be banned from running any sporting organisation ever again. The guy is like a ******* dementor sucking the popularity out of any sport he touches
What do you expect from a lawyer, he was about risk managing and protecting things for his big bosses the Murdochs and the Lowys, not an innovative business type like Kestelman who loves the game.

Was listening to ex ANZ CEO Mike Smith recently and he talked about turning down a few public board offers and said its full of regulations and that's why so many lawyers and accountants are on public boards these days as they are good with the process stuff, but very little of running the business is done at public boards level. That's why he has taken the advisory board route and got involved with start up companies.

The board is where you would stick a Gallop. Don't put him in charge to run and grow a sport.
 

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Ned_Flanders

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Is that fair though? Average attendances peaked at the end of his reign at the NRL

"CEO of sports administration" seems to be a guarantor for public hatred. He has spent the best part of two decades in such roles which probably explains how much loathing there is towards him
He has zero long term vision, everything was priming the pump
 

NoobPie

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He has zero long term vision, everything was priming the pump
Fair enough. As you know I am not a big NRL fan so can't comment from direct experience...I just had a look at the numbers

NRL administration seems a hard gig though. The clubs seem more parochial and have a stronger influence over head office decision making. The 130% funding model is a recent example that from memory lead to a couple of commissioners resigning.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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He has zero long term vision, everything was priming the pump
Liked for your zero vision comment. I'm not sure he was pump priming as at the FFA and even part of his time at NRL, he didn't have a lot of cash to splash, but if you meant his decisions were short term, and not to rock the boat too much, then I also agree on that front.
 

Ned_Flanders

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Fair enough. As you know I am not a big NRL fan so can't comment from direct experience...I just had a look at the numbers

NRL administration seems a hard gig though. The clubs seem more parochial and have a stronger influence over head office decision making. The 130% funding model is a recent example that from memory lead to a couple of commissioners resigning.
He was weak and failed to take them on, so many missed opportunities
 

Ned_Flanders

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Liked for your zero vision comment. I'm not sure he was pump priming as at the FFA and even part of his time at NRL, he didn't have a lot of cash to splash, but if you meant his decisions were short term, and not to rock the boat too much, then I agree on that front.
Yep the latter

Decisions were short term focus, about juicing ratings and so on. But expansion was treated with contempt, membership developed properly far too late, and grass roots taken for granted
 

The_Wookie

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Yep the latter

Decisions were short term focus, about juicing ratings and so on. But expansion was treated with contempt, membership developed properly far too late, and grass roots taken for granted
Its a different world.

The AFL would be no different were it not for the Commission set up we have which was specifically done to prevent the kind of bullshit being seen at both the Aleague and NRL, where clubs and states strangle policy to the point of nothing getting done.

The funny thing is the guy who recommended the independent commission setup to the VFL clubs, wrote the same recommendations for soccer later on and was largely ignored.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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He was weak and failed to take them on, so many missed opportunities
Gallop was put in charge of the NRL by Murdoch and his chief lieutenants at News Ltd, to protect their $560m lost in the super league war. News Ltd had veto rights over so many decisions that Gallop was just managing risk so that News Ltd could claw back their losses, especially via underselling the TV rights to Fox Sports - 50% owned by Murdoch and 50% by Packer, when the NRL was formed, and Packer also underbid for the Free Tv rights to claw back some of his losses in backing the ARL.

He wasn't put there to do what was best for the game overall.

Part of the Kerry Stokes C7 Sports cable TV station vs the rest of the world court case, after 7 lost the AFL TV rights in 2001, was about News Ltd vetoing a $50m higher bid for the free + pay TV rights by Stokes for the NRL rights after they lost the AFL rights. The judge was scathing of the News Ltd appointed NRL director Ian Phillip who was also News Ltd's lawyer and he was the one that vetoed the 7 TV bid. But the judge couldn't overrule the deal.

Its why Lowy probably picked him. He wasn't going to compete with the chairman like a Demetriou or McLachlan did/does with the AFL Commission chair as the CEO has had a lot of power to do things since Oakley was both chair and CEO and then just CEO.
 
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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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I’m not a fan of Gallop but he did put a side on the GC when at the NRL and when he walked into the FFA they had just had two of their expansion sides go bust and the third that they had put in was a disaster and had to be bought out. No doubt he done a lot wrong while at the FFA and was probably just hired to be a yes man but it is also one of the toughest jobs in Australia. It’s a sport treated like a hobby by most but with a hardcore minority of supporters who believe it should be the countries biggest.
The A league is in trouble but I bet nothing changes under new management. As for the actual sport, well again it has its problems but it is also booming at GR level.
His biggest failing has been not uniting the different factions in the sport. Though this is also probably impossible because some of them are delusional others naive.
He also took Fox to the cleaners on the last TV rights
 

Kwality

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Note this is 7 v 9 v 10, not sure if it includes regional viewers in part.

Sport
The highest-rated sports broadcast for the year was the first game of the NRL State of Origin series on Nine, which the preliminary overnight figures put at 2.178m metro viewers. Nine’s coverage of the State of Origin, NRL Grand Final, and Australian Open Tennis also proved successful for the network.

Seven’s AFL Grand Final broadcast was the second-highest sports program. The September match drew in 2.197m metro viewers in OzTam’s overnight figures. According to Seven, the AFL was the number one winter sport, reaching 15 million viewers across the 2019 season.

Ten made a strong entry in the sports category with its first Melbourne Cup coverage since the rights returned to the network in a $100m deal. Despite declining ratings from the previous year, 1.32m metro viewers tuned in into the race.




Top sport programs of 2019 – OzTam Consolidated 28 figures. | | Source: Nine [click to enlarge]

 
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RussellEbertHandball

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I’m not a fan of Gallop but he did put a side on the GC when at the NRL and when he walked into the FFA they had just had two of their expansion sides go bust and the third that they had put in was a disaster and had to be bought out.

No doubt he done a lot wrong while at the FFA and was probably just hired to be a yes man but it is also one of the toughest jobs in Australia. It’s a sport treated like a hobby by most but with a hardcore minority of supporters who believe it should be the countries biggest.

The A league is in trouble but I bet nothing changes under new management. As for the actual sport, well again it has its problems but it is also booming at GR level.

His biggest failing has been not uniting the different factions in the sport. Though this is also probably impossible because some of them are delusional others naive.

He also took Fox to the cleaners on the last TV rights
Gallop has had tough gigs at the NRL and FFA. No question about that.

He isn't incompetent but he isn't a visionionary either. To use a old footy phrase about players - he is a good ordinary footballer type - not a star, but a solid team man type - he does what the coach wants ie what his bosses Murdoch and the Lowys wanted, but he is never going to be the player that wins you the game when its on the line.

Gallop has never really connected with fans of either code. He called Melbourne Storm supporters terrorists after they attacked him constantly after the Brian Waldron Salary cap scandal and their premierships were taken away, and then when the FFA gave long term, and I think even life bans, to soccer fans kicked out of games, and there was no appeal mechanism for some fans who were incorrectly kicked out as they were caught in the area where trouble was, it caused fans to boycott of the game in 2015-16 season.

Its not a great thing for the CEO of the national league to go out of his way to antagonize fans, and he did it in 2 sports.

Re the side on the GC for the NRL, that's because it was a private consortium, knocking down the door to get in, not a GWS or GC funded by the league type team, and the Qld government happily put up the $160m to build the stadium at Robina.

I lived in the GC in 2003 and Brisbane in 2004, when Michael Searle and his group were pushing hard to get a licence for their GC bid. They were knocked back once, maybe a second time, and finally got in, in the late 2005 for a start in 2007 season.

If Gallop was a true visionary he would have put a 2nd team team in Brisbane, but that would have upset News Ltd who owned 68% of the Broncos. Brisbane deserves a 2nd NRL team just like Adelaide and Perth do in the AFL. If it was set up right, it guarantees more $$$ for Lang Park Stadium viability, more TV ratings in a RL strong hold and also good for the Qld State of Origin team. But no way is News Ltd going to give up its monopoly and no way was Gallop going to fight News Ltd on this front.

With the benefit of hindsight, Gallop's crowning glory will be the 6 year, 2017-18 to 2022-23 TV deal, which was a 40% increase in the average annual value over the previous 4 year deal.

But given he knew every serious player at Fox Sports and Foxtel given his close relationship with News Ltd executives at the NRL, he should have been able to see their weak spots better than other major sports administrators looking to squeeze monies out of Fox Sports / Foxtel.

The A League has a lot of stakeholders to juggle and I agree with you it is near impossible to unite them all, but I'm not sure how hard he as well as the Lowys and other board members really tried.

The A League team owners have lost between $250-$300m since the first season in 2005-06 and they deserve a bigger say in the running of the A League. Sure the FFA should run national teams and the rest of the game, but the model in Europe is the national league is run by a consortium of teams and owners in the national league, and the Football Association controls other aspects of the game outside of the national league.

The A League owners might find a dud to be the CEO of the A league but at least he/she wont have a conflict of interest like Gallop had. But they could also find a Larry Kestelman type CEO. And if the owners have more control, they might be prepared to put more $$$ in for marketing the League. Who knows.

But either way, the A League needed a change especially after FIFA forced them to change the voting structure of the stakeholders of the game, late last year.
 

NoobPie

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Note this is 7 v 9 v 10, not sure if it includes regional viewers in part.

Sport
The highest-rated sports broadcast for the year was the first game of the NRL State of Origin series on Nine, which the preliminary overnight figures put at 2.178m metro viewers. Nine’s coverage of the State of Origin, NRL Grand Final, and Australian Open Tennis also proved successful for the network.

Seven’s AFL Grand Final broadcast was the second-highest sports program. The September match drew in 2.197m metro viewers in OzTam’s overnight figures. According to Seven, the AFL was the number one winter sport, reaching 15 million viewers across the 2019 season.

Ten made a strong entry in the sports category with its first Melbourne Cup coverage since the rights returned to the network in a $100m deal. Despite declining ratings from the previous year, 1.32m metro viewers tuned in into the race.




Top sport programs of 2019 – OzTam Consolidated 28 figures. | | Source: Nine [click to enlarge]

Bizarre that 7's finals seem to be an average over all 8 finals excluding the grand final. Not sure why they would do that.

15 million reach claim for the AFL on 7 sounds extremely excessive
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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Gallop has had tough gigs at the NRL and FFA. No question about that.

He isn't incompetent but he isn't a visionionary either. To use a old footy phrase about players - he is a good ordinary footballer type - not a star, but a solid team man type - he does what the coach wants ie what his bosses Murdoch and the Lowys wanted, but he is never going to be the player that wins you the game when its on the line.

Gallop has never really connected with fans of either code. He called Melbourne Storm supporters terrorists after they attacked him constantly after the Brian Waldron Salary cap scandal and their premierships were taken away, and then when the FFA gave long term, and I think even life bans, to soccer fans kicked out of games, and there was no appeal mechanism for some fans who were incorrectly kicked out as they were caught in the area where trouble was, it caused fans to boycott of the game in 2015-16 season.

Its not a great thing for the CEO of the national league to go out of his way to antagonize fans, and he did it in 2 sports.

Re the side on the GC for the NRL, that's because it was a private consortium, knocking down the door to get in, not a GWS or GC funded by the league type team, and the Qld government happily put up the $160m to build the stadium at Robina.

I lived in the GC in 2003 and Brisbane in 2004, when Michael Searle and his group were pushing hard to get a licence for their GC bid. They were knocked back once, maybe a second time, and finally got in, in the late 2005 for a start in 2007 season.

If Gallop was a true visionary he would have put a 2nd team team in Brisbane, but that would have upset News Ltd who owned 68% of the Broncos. Brisbane deserves a 2nd NRL team just like Adelaide and Perth do in the AFL. If it was set up right, it guarantees more $$$ for Lang Park Stadium viability, more TV ratings in a RL strong hold and also good for the Qld State of Origin team. But no way is News Ltd going to give up its monopoly and no way was Gallop going to fight News Ltd on this front.

With the benefit of hindsight, Gallop's crowning glory will be the 6 year, 2017-18 to 2022-23 TV deal, which was a 40% increase in the average annual value over the previous 4 year deal.

But given he knew every serious player at Fox Sports and Foxtel given his close relationship with News Ltd executives at the NRL, he should have been able to see their weak spots better than other major sports administrators looking to squeeze monies out of Fox Sports / Foxtel.

The A League has a lot of stakeholders to juggle and I agree with you it is near impossible to unite them all, but I'm not sure how hard he as well as the Lowys and other board members really tried.

The A League team owners have lost between $250-$300m since the first season in 2005-06 and they deserve a bigger say in the running of the A League. Sure the FFA should run national teams and the rest of the game, but the model in Europe is the national league is run by a consortium of teams and owners in the national league, and the Football Association controls other aspects of the game outside of the national league.

The A League owners might find a dud to be the CEO of the A league but at least he/she wont have a conflict of interest like Gallop had. But they could also find a Larry Kestelman type CEO. And if the owners have more control, they might be prepared to put more $$$ in for marketing the League. Who knows.

But either way, the A League needed a change especially after FIFA forced them to change the voting structure of the stakeholders of the game, late last year.
Spot on. I couldn’t disagree with any of that.

it does look like Brisbane will finally get their second team with V’Landy in control though he seems to have slammed the door on any expansion outside of Queensland and NSW
 

BringBackTorps

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The Australian L. Shanahan & S. Jackson "Exclusive" 26.11

"RA rejected Foxtel's offer of about $20 million as an effective "rollover" agreement on the current arrangement".
(Is the $20 million for all Super Rugby & Wallabies matches, excluding European rights $ to these? Given RU's significant decline in ratings for Super Rugby, Wallabies etc.- & Foxtel recently stating it will downgrade "non-marquee sports"- it can be assumed the Foxtel offer would be a lower payment, cf the previous Foxtel payment)

"Of particular concern are estimated losses for the franchises of $10m a year under a new Super Rugby home and away system".
(Are these "losses ...of $10m..." actually just a $10m decline in revenues; or actual collective net losses pa by the 4 teams?)

Former Nine and Seven boss David Leckie "...if the rights go to Optus, it will kill the game...if you're an advertiser or sponsor, you'd be thinking 'we don't need to worry about rugby anymore'.
(How much would the RU ratings on Optus likely be lower, cf. Foxtel/Kayo & FTA? Optus has far fewer subscribers)

 
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Our Game

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Another blow to RU in Australia

HSBC Australia has been the "official banking partner" of the Wallabies for six years but has opted not to renew the deal with the national rugby team, instead announcing partnerships from 2020 with the Sydney Swans, Opera Australia and Queensland Art Gallery and Gallery of Modern Art.
 
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