Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

[Kwality]

Optus has acquired the rights to stream the FIFA Club World Cup for 2019 and 2020, adding to its growing stable of international football coverage.

Extending its FIFA relationship after the coverage of the FIFA Women’s World Cup earlier this year, will broadcast the 11-day international top tier club contest.


Read more at https://www.adnews.com.au/news/optus-secures-rights-to-fifa-club-world-cup#wQbpymqVJWEpU3OJ.99

Is it a big deal in the soccer world?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

the clubs themselves have to care. They would play in a better league with better talent, be more successful in cups and be generally "bigger". It is how these expansions or run off leagues work. Better soccer=better viewing=more fans. Heck, it doesn't have to be professional. The A-league is barely supporting 11 professional clubs. They can't support 20 odd.

As I said, it is up to the NPL clubs(you know the ones) to prove that it could be successful or at least not a failure. If they are unwilling to even test the waters without promotion as a carrot, why should anyone else believe it would work with it. all this sooking on the sidelines will not convince the A-league clubs they should care. They are self-interested and rightly so. If a potential promotion is the only thing which entices fans to come and watch, then the league would be already dead on arrival. Not every club will be in the race for promotion every year after all.

That's right the old NSL and current NPL clubs would want to care to get onto a bigger stage, rather than be forced onto it.

Take South Melbourne - thru their junior development they produced 43 Socceroos, I believe was the figure that they bandied around 3 or 4 years ago when they said they wanted to get back into the national competition.

Clubs like South Melbourne would have to drive the national Div 2 league push, not the FFA, and the A League clubs are going to be against it.

Forcing community owned clubs to pay millions of dollars up front for a licence like in the A League would be foolish for Div 2. Sure some sort of annual marketing and admin fee for head office would make sense.

Look at the problems that caused for Brisbane and West Coast when at the last minute to get Fitzroy over the line, it went from a licence fee of $4m paid over 10 years to 30 days upfront. That was a disaster. Similar case with the $6.5m licence issued to Doc Edelsten, when he was broke, and it was a small WA mining company Westeq Ltd who put up the monies and later Sportsplay/Powerplay public company group ran the swans.

That's why Adelaide, Freo and Port got 10 years to pay their licence fees, and GC and GWS were freebies.

In England, The Football Association is separate from the company that runs the Premier League and separate again is the English Football League that runs the EFL Championship, EFL League One and EFL League Two.

Would be no different here with FFA is the custodial organisation, the A League would run its competition and a Div 2 league would run its comp with the FFA helping set it up and use its connections with airlines,hotels, insurance, companies etc to get better deals up front, but once set up, it would be hands off management.

The model for a national Div 2 league has to be completely different to the A League. It has to be based around community clubs, let the clubs that built the game have an opportunity to get back on the national stage that they keep talking about wanting to get back on.

It has to have different budgets and different expectations, but its a carrot to get onto a bigger stage. There wouldn't be any promotion to the A League for 5 or 10 years until it proves itself. It doesn't have to be all big bang stuff. So after a decade you would know if promotion and relegation is unrealistic, or irresistible.

You wont know until you try and do things differently, because doing the same as the last 5 years has seen the game stagnant and go backwards at the professional level in Oz. It might not get passed the planning stage, but a decent feasibility study into how it might work, should at least be undertaken.

I used to live in Walkerville in Adelaide and my 5km run along the Torrens would get me to Adelaide Oval. Sometimes I would run the other way, away from the CBD and not along the river and 2km in, I would run past Marden Sports Complex, the home of the Adelaide Blue Eagles in SA's - NPL. On several occasions they had crowds of 2-3 thousand attend and it wasn't the Adelaide United youth team playing or the Adelaide United Women's team playing, who also play games there. My understanding is that it is owned by the Adelaide Blue Eagles, has about 2,000 seats and 6,000 capacity. They played the Oceania cup games there in 2004 and Tim Cahill scored a hatrick for the Socceroos there, think it was in his first game ever in the green and gold.

These clubs should be given the opportunity to get onto a bigger stage - or at least a serious study should be done to see if that opportunity is realistic.

As I said in one of my previous post average crowds of 4k-5k should be the goal. Over 2013-18 years, Bundesliga Div 3 clubs averaged 6.4k crowds, and Eng Div 4 averaged 4.8k crowd. as a benchmark for what should be achieved. Their Div 2 teams average about 45%-50% of Div 1 teams. Div 2 crowds wont be that high in Oz.

 

[Kwality]

You wont know until you try and do things differently, because doing the same as the last 5 years has seen the game stagnant and go backwards at the professional level in Oz. It might not get passed the planning stage, but a decent feasibility study into how it might work, should at least be undertaken.

Fine, but who does the feasibility? Too many people involved who cant see past self interest & if a full time professional career is a cornerstone, only the elite comp gets a gig in Aus sport.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Fine, but who does the feasibility? Too many people involved who cant see past self interest & if a full time professional career is a cornerstone, only the elite comp gets a gig in Aus sport.

Those with self interest, with the FFA co-ordinating it. Soccer people talk about more teams and promo and relegation, then those people should drive it.

That's why the FFA needs a visionary leader rather than a risk manager like Gallop. The new structure with more stakeholders, should see more discussion about the structure of the game and growing/improving/refining it.

 

[NoobPie]

That's right the old NSL and current NPL clubs would want to care to get onto a bigger stage, rather than be forced onto it.

Take South Melbourne - thru their junior development they produced 43 Socceroos, I believe was the figure that they bandied around 3 or 4 years ago when they said they wanted to get back into the national competition.

Clubs like South Melbourne would have to drive the national Div 2 league push, not the FFA, and the A League clubs are going to be against it.

Forcing community owned clubs to pay millions of dollars up front for a licence like in the A League would be foolish for Div 2. Sure some sort of annual marketing and admin fee for head office would make sense.

Look at the problems that caused for Brisbane and West Coast when at the last minute to get Fitzroy over the line, it went from a licence fee of $4m paid over 10 years to 30 days upfront. That was a disaster. Similar case with the $6.5m licence issued to Doc Edelsten, when he was broke, and it was a small WA mining company Westeq Ltd who put up the monies and later Sportsplay/Powerplay public company group ran the swans.

That's why Adelaide, Freo and Port got 10 years to pay their licence fees, and GC and GWS were freebies.

In England, The Football Association is separate from the company that runs the Premier League and separate again is the English Football League that runs the EFL Championship, EFL League One and EFL League Two.

Would be no different here with FFA is the custodial organisation, the A League would run its competition and a Div 2 league would run its comp with the FFA helping set it up and use its connections with airlines,hotels, insurance, companies etc to get better deals up front, but once set up, it would be hands off management.

The model for a national Div 2 league has to be completely different to the A League. It has to be based around community clubs, let the clubs that built the game have an opportunity to get back on the national stage that they keep talking about wanting to get back on.

It has to have different budgets and different expectations, but its a carrot to get onto a bigger stage. There wouldn't be any promotion to the A League for 5 or 10 years until it proves itself. It doesn't have to be all big bang stuff. So after a decade you would know if promotion and relegation is unrealistic, or irresistible.

You wont know until you try and do things differently, because doing the same as the last 5 years has seen the game stagnant and go backwards at the professional level in Oz. It might not get passed the planning stage, but a decent feasibility study into how it might work, should at least be undertaken.

I used to live in Walkerville in Adelaide and my 5km run along the Torrens would get me to Adelaide Oval. Sometimes I would run the other way, away from the CBD and not along the river and 2km in, I would run past Marden Sports Complex, the home of the Adelaide Blue Eagles in SA's - NPL. On several occasions they had crowds of 2-3 thousand attend and it wasn't the Adelaide United youth team playing or the Adelaide United Women's team playing, who also play games there. My understanding is that it is owned by the Adelaide Blue Eagles, has about 2,000 seats and 6,000 capacity. They played the Oceania cup games there in 2004 and Tim Cahill scored a hatrick for the Socceroos there, think it was in his first game ever in the green and gold.

These clubs should be given the opportunity to get onto a bigger stage - or at least a serious study should be done to see if that opportunity is realistic.

As I said in one of my previous post average crowds of 4k-5k should be the goal. Over 2013-18 years, Bundesliga Div 3 clubs averaged 6.4k crowds, and Eng Div 4 averaged 4.8k crowd. as a benchmark for what should be achieved. Their Div 2 teams average about 45%-50% of Div 1 teams. Div 2 crowds wont be that high in Oz.

Save your money!

I've done a feasibility study:

-The NSL went broke as the premier competition in Australia
-The A League franchisers are losing 10s of millions collectively each year as (until this year) an 10 team professional competition
-An "NSL reanimated" model as a second tier with no pro/rel has no chance of working.

How could it possibly be viable? Why on earth will it be pulling 4 to 5K (beyond maybe South Melbourne under an almost implausibly successful scenario)? Why on earth would any club commit to it without a guarantee of pro/rel at the end of it (rather than a vague commitment from A League franchisers once they have "proved it")?

Like I said previously, Australian soccer is probably doomed to failure because of ever persistent delusions of grandeur. For all denied respect to the traditional clubs, they are not getting any bigger than they are now. Every new greenfield "post-ethnic" fanchise (i.e. Perth Glory, Northern Spirit, Melbourne Victory, Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers etc) has followed the same trajectory - big novelty effect followed by a slow decline.

The last thing Australia soccer needs is a deluded "visionary"

 

[Kwality]

The last thing Australia soccer needs is a deluded "visionary"

Dont think thats what REH was suggesting.

 

[NoobPie]

1. What were the amounts the taxpayer committed for the A League restructure in 2004? And what were these moneys spent on?

Here's a start, BBT, but feel free to do your own research ;-)

https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/building-australias-football-community-review-into-the-sustainability-of-football~building-australias-football-community-review-into-the-sustainability-of-football-gov-funding

 

[jatz14]

You'd swear getting a good CEO is a must, particularly for those who put up their own money ($lots) to buy an A League franchise. It'd be cheaper to be into owning horses, sailing or motor sport on a grand scale.

Judgement of a CEO generally comes from outcomes. So I suspect the next CEO of the FFA will be seen as not being very good, regardless of his/her personal qualities. Maybe the incumbent is actually a good CEO, and the idea that the sport would be in a much better spot, if there had been a different CEO is just wishful thinking.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Judgement of a CEO generally comes from outcomes. So I suspect the next CEO of the FFA will be seen as not being very good, regardless of his/her personal qualities. Maybe the incumbent is actually a good CEO, and the idea that the sport would be in a much better spot, if there had been a different CEO is just wishful thinking.

The next CEO of FFA wont be running the A League. A Larry Kestelman type has to be appointed to run the A League not the FFA.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Save your money!

I've done a feasibility study:

-The NSL went broke as the premier competition in Australia
-The A League franchisers are losing 10s of millions collectively each year as (until this year) an 10 team professional competition
-An "NSL reanimated" model as a second tier with no pro/rel has no chance of working.

How could it possibly be viable? Why on earth will it be pulling 4 to 5K (beyond maybe South Melbourne under an almost implausibly successful scenario)? Why on earth would any club commit to it without a guarantee of pro/rel at the end of it (rather than a vague commitment from A League franchisers once they have "proved it")?

Like I said previously, Australian soccer is probably doomed to failure because of ever persistent delusions of grandeur. For all denied respect to the traditional clubs, they are not getting any bigger than they are now. Every new greenfield "post-ethnic" fanchise (i.e. Perth Glory, Northern Spirit, Melbourne Victory, Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers etc) has followed the same trajectory - big novelty effect followed by a slow decline.

The last thing Australia soccer needs is a deluded "visionary"

And what did your study into the NBL say - 5 years ago? Or 3 years ago?

 

[Kwality]

Judgement of a CEO generally comes from outcomes. So I suspect the next CEO of the FFA will be seen as not being very good, regardless of his/her personal qualities. Maybe the incumbent is actually a good CEO, and the idea that the sport would be in a much better spot, if there had been a different CEO is just wishful thinking.

Gallop is going, there will be a new appointee.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

And what did your study into the NBL say - 5 years ago? Or 3 years ago?

It’ll be interesting to see where the NBL is at in 5-10 years. It’ll teach us a hell of a lot about what some sports are capable of and a lot about the sporting culture in this country. Fingers and everything else crossed that it only keeps improving.

 

[jatz14]

Gallop is going, there will be a new appointee.

I know, its the assumption from all and sundry that he didnt do a very good job, and that a good replacement will make things better I question. Its certainly possible that a different CEO may have done better, but it isnt certain. Its like saying someone getting 40% in an exam did badly, when no one else sat the exam. Maybe the exam was just so hard, that 40% was a good outcome.

 

[NoobPie]

I know, its the assumption from all and sundry that he didnt do a very good job, and that a good replacement will make things better I question. Its certainly possible that a different CEO may have done better, but it isnt certain. Its like saying someone getting 40% in an exam did badly, when no one else sat the exam. Maybe the exam was just so hard, that 40% was a good outcome.

Exactly. It was inevitable that he was deemed a failure because he grabbed the reigns at an unsustainable high point in a sport whose die hards have always had absurd delusions about its prospects in Australia

He didn't help himself with claims like this to be fair (never gets old )

'Football will be the biggest sport in Australia,' says FFA chief

The FFA chief executive David Gallop has declared that the game will become the biggest and most popular sport in Australia

www.theguardian.com

And what did your study into the NBL say - 5 years ago? Or 3 years ago?

There was none! I would have been very confident writing off the prospects of a national second division for basketball though

 

[The_Wookie]

There was none! I would have been very confident writing off the prospects of a national second division for basketball though

And thats effectively coming into being with NBL1 next year.

 

[NoobPie]

And thats effectively coming into being with NBL1 next year.

Well, I'd never heard of it but from a quick look it seems far more analogous to the NPL than to a fantasised national second division

 

[Dagwood Merkin]

You're under selling it. What about the gift of having the defending team drop back ten metres after a tackle?

"Everyone back ten metres ......gaaaarrn give 'em a go....a few more tackles and it will be your turn"

I know the dumb *ers. Its like giving a s**t player a participation trophy or giving a team a point for missing. Useless carnts....

 

[NoobPie]

I know the dumb f***ers. Its like giving a s**t player a participation trophy or giving a team a point for missing. Useless carnts....

Are we leaving this one then Wookie?

 

[Minka Beaver]

Usain Bolt's 8-week trial at Central Coast Mariners has been topped - a Federal Court claimant states that he spent three months on trial at the Mariners and that it ended without a previously promised contract:

'Internships' on trial as young footballer takes action against A-league club

Mark Moric trained and played for almost four months without being paid. Now he's taken the club to court in a precedent-setting case.

www.theage.com.au

----

Professor Stewart said the case could be settled on the simpler legal question of whether Mr Moric was misled and deceived but if the Federal Court ruled on the use of unpaid trials that would have a real chance to be “precedent setting”. He said the length of time Mr Moric said he went unpaid was important to the case and clashed with guidance from the Fair Work Ombudsman.

“If you look at the guidance on unpaid trials you would struggle to say this is lawful,” he said.

 

[Our Game]

Hey Wookie

Is the old goat Masters telling porkies again?

Changing the rules: How the NRL and AFL are chasing the TV dollar

It would seem Australia’s two main football codes are heading in different directions.

www.smh.com.au

"NRL finished 2019 ahead of AFL on FTA and Fox, even before the end-of-season Test matches. According to sportsindustry, an Adelaide-based app that tracks sports viewership, rugby league had 116.23 million viewers on Nine and Fox at an average of 490,000 per match, while AFL was 111.9m on Seven and Fox at an average of 419,000."

 

[Colonial]

Hey Wookie

Is the old goat Masters telling porkies again?

Changing the rules: How the NRL and AFL are chasing the TV dollar

It would seem Australia’s two main football codes are heading in different directions.

www.smh.com.au

"NRL finished 2019 ahead of AFL on FTA and Fox, even before the end-of-season Test matches. According to sportsindustry, an Adelaide-based app that tracks sports viewership, rugby league had 116.23 million viewers on Nine and Fox at an average of 490,000 per match, while AFL was 111.9m on Seven and Fox at an average of 419,000."

Everything from that old never was.

 

[Kwality]

Hey Wookie

Is the old goat Masters telling porkies again?

Changing the rules: How the NRL and AFL are chasing the TV dollar

It would seem Australia’s two main football codes are heading in different directions.

www.smh.com.au

"NRL finished 2019 ahead of AFL on FTA and Fox, even before the end-of-season Test matches. According to sportsindustry, an Adelaide-based app that tracks sports viewership, rugby league had 116.23 million viewers on Nine and Fox at an average of 490,000 per match, while AFL was 111.9m on Seven and Fox at an average of 419,000."

My comment is not about the article but is this simply a case of including Origin?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Hey Wookie

Is the old goat Masters telling porkies again?

Changing the rules: How the NRL and AFL are chasing the TV dollar

It would seem Australia’s two main football codes are heading in different directions.

www.smh.com.au

"NRL finished 2019 ahead of AFL on FTA and Fox, even before the end-of-season Test matches. According to sportsindustry, an Adelaide-based app that tracks sports viewership, rugby league had 116.23 million viewers on Nine and Fox at an average of 490,000 per match, while AFL was 111.9m on Seven and Fox at an average of 419,000."

That was very unlike him to acknowledge the AFL has 90million more viewing hours.

 

[NoobPie]

Hey Wookie

Is the old goat Masters telling porkies again?

Changing the rules: How the NRL and AFL are chasing the TV dollar

It would seem Australia’s two main football codes are heading in different directions.

www.smh.com.au

"NRL finished 2019 ahead of AFL on FTA and Fox, even before the end-of-season Test matches. According to sportsindustry, an Adelaide-based app that tracks sports viewership, rugby league had 116.23 million viewers on Nine and Fox at an average of 490,000 per match, while AFL was 111.9m on Seven and Fox at an average of 419,000."

Masters is a shill. This is comical....

Overall, AFL consumes more hours (277.9m), compared to the NRL (190m), but rugby league is the most valuable sport in Australia....by half.

It premise blatantly suggests the precise opposite of his assertion. He relies on the sheer stupidity of aggregating the average of two hour games and three hour games and thinking you are comparing like for like.

The AFL has and will continue to get 10s of millions more for its TV rights despite the NRL being so skewed towards that end in terms of its round structure and exclusivity if grants foxtel.

If rugby league was more the valuable it would surely get the most money once in a while?

 

[kaypee]

That was very unlike him to acknowledge the AFL has 90million more viewing hours.

What masters refuses to acknowledge is the AFL has a lot of juice in its fruit still. NRL is a lot further down the path of squeezing every last drop out of itself.