Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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Prince Imperial

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The FFA are laughing having obtained $18m out of these WU guys. Whilst the franchise is likely to fail, the negative reputational impact of that will be felt by the A-League itself which the FFA is giving up ownership of to the team owners.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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So they've raised $30 million which will cover the licence fee and approximately 2 years worth of losses. What then? Who's funding the losses after that? Where's the money coming from for this stadium?

I know exactly where Tarneit is - and this idea that they're going to build a successful hotel and entertainment complex in the next 10 years is fairytale stuff. Where's the demand for a hotel? Maybe in 20 years if it's all built up - but that's a lot of losses to fund waiting for the thing to be successful.

I just can't see how anyone with an IQ over 30 would put money in and genuinely think there's a prospect of return.

Interestingly neither Scott Pendlebury or Jack Ziebell have mentioned the club once in their twitter feed (at least I couldn't find any mention). Strange behaviour for 2 people with skin in the game. Why not put out a bit of free advertising if their money is actually on the line?
Hotel probably means pokies which could see a quick injection of cash and these are the type of areas that seem to be where the market is. It’s sounds very ambitious/risky but you would imagine the council have agreed to some sort of exclusive zoning that means the area will have no future competition pretty much giving them a monopoly in the area for these “hotels, shops, restaurants”.
It’s amazing that an entire club is based on some wealthy businessman using it as leverage to get land to develop. I would love to see all the contracts in place between the council and the developers.
 

Our Game

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Hotel probably means pokies which could see a quick injection of cash and these are the type of areas that seem to be where the market is. It’s sounds very ambitious/risky but you would imagine the council have agreed to some sort of exclusive zoning that means the area will have no future competition pretty much giving them a monopoly in the area for these “hotels, shops, restaurants”.
It’s amazing that an entire club is based on some wealthy businessman using it as leverage to get land to develop. I would love to see all the contracts in place between the council and the developers.
Its a type of soft corruption!The biggest ethnic group in Tarneit /Truganina is Indian and they prefer cricket to soccer.
 

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BobbyMorri

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THE deal on the Derwent Entertainment Centre is almost done, with a $40 million taxpayer-funded upgrade on the table.
The deal will see the venue stay in public hands.

Negotiations are in their final throes, but it is understood the State Government, Federal Government and Glenorchy City Council will pay for the redevelopment before leasing it to National Basketball League owner Larry Kestelman.

As a result Tasmania will re-enter the NBL for the 2021-22 season.

A further $20 million of taxpayers’ money will be used to fund a publicly owned and operated multi-sport indoor facility next door — $10 million of which was promised by the Government in the lead up to the last state election.

Mr Kestelman will acquire Wilkinsons Point for his proposed $200 million shopping, retail and hotel precinct, as well as own and operate a Tasmanian NBL team from 2021.

Any money the Glenorchy City Council makes from the sale of Wilkinsons Point will be part of the DEC redevelopment, while ownership of the DEC will be passed from council to the State Government.
Sounds like a very complicated deal which is almost complete. I must say I am very excited by this. It is also the right decision. The DEC needs this and to prevent it becoming a white elephant, it needs a full time tenant. Hopefully Larry and the 3 tiers of government accept it.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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Its a type of soft corruption!The biggest ethnic group in Tarneit /Truganina is Indian and they prefer cricket to soccer.
I realise that is an area seriously lacking soul and a sporting franchise could be huge for that. The problem is the council look to be giving away land that is obviously worth a mint considering the developers are willing to spend ~$200mil knowing they will not get a return on it, plus think they can turn a profit on the rest of the land. It’s seems extraordinary that a team no one really wanted is the best return they could get on such a valuable asset.
 

Rob

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Hotel probably means pokies which could see a quick injection of cash and these are the type of areas that seem to be where the market is. It’s sounds very ambitious/risky but you would imagine the council have agreed to some sort of exclusive zoning that means the area will have no future competition pretty much giving them a monopoly in the area for these “hotels, shops, restaurants”.
It’s amazing that an entire club is based on some wealthy businessman using it as leverage to get land to develop. I would love to see all the contracts in place between the council and the developers.
Still don't buy it. Unless this land development is the mother of all land developments, paying $18 million for a licence to run a soccer club that's going to lose millions a year and then paying (reportedly) another $150 million plus for a stadium that it likely to be mostly empty, it just doesn't add up. They're not going to make anywhere near that on the development, let alone make an overall profit. Especially when you consider that it's hardly reliant on the soccer club anyway - they could do everything except spend $200 odd million on the club and still make just as much profit on the land development. Probably more as a soccer stadium isn't the sort of thing people dream of living near.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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Still don't buy it. Unless this land development is the mother of all land developments, paying $18 million for a licence to run a soccer club that's going to lose millions a year and then paying (reportedly) another $150 million plus for a stadium that it likely to be mostly empty, it just doesn't add up. They're not going to make anywhere near that on the development, let alone make an overall profit. Especially when you consider that it's hardly reliant on the soccer club anyway - they could do everything except spend $200 odd million on the club and still make just as much profit on the land development. Probably more as a soccer stadium isn't the sort of thing people dream of living near.
The council are just looking for an identity for the community and hoping the soccer club will do that which is ridiculous imo. The sums don’t seem to add up that’s why I imagine this group has probably been given the only future commercial land available in the council or something along those lines. It would be really interesting to know exactly what this group are getting out of it.
 

Rob

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The council are just looking for an identity for the community and hoping the soccer club will do that which is ridiculous imo.
It's ridiculous given the club has a generic name. Why not Wyndham United if that's the point of the club? They're going to have fu** all fans regardless in the short term, at least that would give them a bit of an identity that might help them out long term.

The sums don’t seem to add up that’s why I imagine this group has probably been given the only future commercial land available in the council or something along those lines. It would be really interesting to know exactly what this group are getting out of it.
I can only envisage 1 of 3 things.
- The investors are incredibly dumb
- The investors are massive, massive soccer fans with far too much money
- There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet

Have to say though that this is genuinely the most fascinating off field sports story I can remember. Secret investors, huge payments that make no sense, big plans that make even less sense. It's got everything.
 

Gigantor

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It's ridiculous given the club has a generic name. Why not Wyndham United if that's the point of the club? They're going to have fu** all fans regardless in the short term, at least that would give them a bit of an identity that might help them out long term.

I can only envisage 1 of 3 things.
- The investors are incredibly dumb
- The investors are massive, massive soccer fans with far too much money
- There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet

Have to say though that this is genuinely the most fascinating off field sports story I can remember. Secret investors, huge payments that make no sense, big plans that make even less sense. It's got everything.
It's all quite incredible.
The license fee is worth that much because there are other parties wanting to pay that much to get into the current closed structure of the A-League. While it remains closed off, owners have some chance of re-selling their license.
Of course, the moment P&R comes in, the licenses are effectively worth zero dollars (which is why we'll be waiting a very long time to see P&R).
The word "investment" often gets bandied around by the parties involved. But it's an investment which will see multi million dollar losses year on year, perhaps indefinitely, and the stadium, if it ever gets built, would have a 100 year pay back period minimum.
Who the hell "invests" in that?
Which is why the mind continues to return to your point 3 above.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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It's ridiculous given the club has a generic name. Why not Wyndham United if that's the point of the club? They're going to have fu** all fans regardless in the short term, at least that would give them a bit of an identity that might help them out long term.



I can only envisage 1 of 3 things.
- The investors are incredibly dumb
- The investors are massive, massive soccer fans with far too much money
- There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet

Have to say though that this is genuinely the most fascinating off field sports story I can remember. Secret investors, huge payments that make no sense, big plans that make even less sense. It's got everything.
It's all quite incredible.
The license fee is worth that much because there are other parties wanting to pay that much to get into the current closed structure of the A-League. While it remains closed off, owners have some chance of re-selling their license.
Of course, the moment P&R comes in, the licenses are effectively worth zero dollars (which is why we'll be waiting a very long time to see P&R).
The word "investment" often gets bandied around by the parties involved. But it's an investment which will see multi million dollar losses year on year, perhaps indefinitely, and the stadium, if it ever gets built, would have a 100 year pay back period minimum.
Who the hell "invests" in that?
Which is why the mind continues to return to your point 3 above.
You would think it would have to be point 3 and I keep coming back to the only way I could think that it could add up is for a monopoly on commercial land which is very likely from the snippets we have heard.
 

Our Game

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It's ridiculous given the club has a generic name. Why not Wyndham United if that's the point of the club? They're going to have fu** all fans regardless in the short term, at least that would give them a bit of an identity that might help them out long term.



I can only envisage 1 of 3 things.
- The investors are incredibly dumb
- The investors are massive, massive soccer fans with far too much money
- There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet

Have to say though that this is genuinely the most fascinating off field sports story I can remember. Secret investors, huge payments that make no sense, big plans that make even less sense. It's got everything.
-
I think this is the closest!

"There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet"

You only have to look at the corrupt goings on at Casey Council with a land developer to see what could be happening here to a lesser extent!
A few nice dinners at a fancy restaurant and free club memberships and match day lunches for the councilors usually does the trick like.Ballarat/WB/AFL that comes to mind
 

Gigantor

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We know the council has gifted a large parcel of land on the promise of a stadium, but for a large chunk of the land, they can build and sell residential and commercial property for private gain.

What we don't know is how watertight the guarantee to build a stadium is.

We don't know what happens after they have exploited all the residential and commercial property offerings, if there remains a piece of vacant land upon which the stadium was ostensibly to be built.
 

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HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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-
I think this is the closest!

"There's some serious under the table sh*t that no-one's found out about yet"

You only have to look at the corrupt goings on at Casey Council with a land developer to see what could be happening here to a lesser extent!
A few nice dinners at a fancy restaurant and free club memberships and match day lunches for the councilors usually does the trick like.Ballarat/WB/AFL that comes to mind
It’s clear what the council are getting though. They are getting a soccer team and stadium which is probably going to cost the developers $200m plus. It’s what the developers are getting that can justify spending that much that is the question.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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We know the council has gifted a large parcel of land on the promise of a stadium, but for a large chunk of the land, they can build and sell residential and commercial property for private gain.

What we don't know is how watertight the guarantee to build a stadium is.

We don't know what happens after they have exploited all the residential and commercial property offerings, if there remains a piece of vacant land upon which the stadium was ostensibly to be built.
Surely between the council and the FFA someone had made sure it’s a watertight agreement.
 

Rob

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It’s clear what the council are getting though. They are getting a soccer team and stadium which is probably going to cost the developers $200m plus. It’s what the developers are getting that can justify spending that much that is the question.
This is pretty much it. If the council are gifting land it's effectively the council that's paying for it all. But gifting $200m+ worth of land? That's royal commission worthy. Out in the sticks where land isn't worth that much it would be a huge tract of land.

However, the money seemingly isn't there yet. They've only raised $30m - just a small part of what's been promised. And most of that has already been spent on the licence and the ongoing losses. If there's so much land at stake, why haven't they raised it all - or even close to a majority - yet? It's looks to be a house of cards.

Surely between the council and the FFA someone had made sure it’s a watertight agreement.
I doubt the FFA give 2 shits as long as the licence fee came in on time.
 

Our Game

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This is pretty much it. If the council are gifting land it's effectively the council that's paying for it all. But gifting $200m+ worth of land? That's royal commission worthy. Out in the sticks where land isn't worth that much it would be a huge tract of land.

However, the money seemingly isn't there yet. They've only raised $30m - just a small part of what's been promised. And most of that has already been spent on the licence and the ongoing losses. If there's so much land at stake, why haven't they raised it all - or even close to a majority - yet? It's looks to be a house of cards.



I doubt the FFA give 2 shits as long as the licence fee came in on time.
Yep the way the A League and FFA are going atm they need every penny they can get their hands on.
 

BobbyMorri

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Don't forget the foxtel money for putting a team in "Melbourne"

The FFA is at least $20-30 mil better with WU in the a-league, despite no one turning up. The Investors are either the biggest fools in Australia or .....??? Who knows. It is very interesting to see what will happen. I would be buying for the book rights for the full story.

There were rumours of late payments of players recently, but the sources are not credible.
 

Our Game

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"There were rumours of late payments of players recently, but the sources are not credible."

If they were relying on Memerships and gate takings they would be millions in the red already.
 

jatz14

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"There were rumours of late payments of players recently, but the sources are not credible."

If they were relying on Memerships and gate takings they would be millions in the red already.
The problem is, the more it seems plausible for something to happen, the more likely it is that a rumour it has happened gets started, and gets believed. No ones starting a rumour that Victory cannot pay players, nor would it be believed, but WU? Ripe bullshit rumour material. Of course, there is the fact the rumour is believable because its plausible. I heard its more to do with the player and coach not liking each other, and the player realising he isnt going to be playing much football at WU if he stays.
 

BobbyMorri

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The problem is, the more it seems plausible for something to happen, the more likely it is that a rumour it has happened gets started, and gets believed. No ones starting a rumour that Victory cannot pay players, nor would it be believed, but WU? Ripe bullshit rumour material. Of course, there is the fact the rumour is believable because its plausible. I heard its more to do with the player and coach not liking each other, and the player realising he isnt going to be playing much football at WU if he stays.
yeah, very well put.

I reckon the FFA would step in if it came to missed payments. Players are normally very vocal about not getting paid and I am sure the PFA would be jumping up and down if it happened.

the other expansion club(Macarthur) looks a world-beater in comparison to Western United. For one, they actually have a stadium. But they reached 2K foundation $100 members last month. Western United was at just over 1K, 6 weeks before the season started for.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
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Has the BBL lost a bit of its shine?On a pleasant night at the SCG they could only get a disappointing crowd of 13,247

Just goes to show how good the Sydney Swans crowds are at the SCG.Both the RL and RU struggled to get decent crowds there last season as well.
They had already dropped off last year and it is a mid week game while school is still running. The Gabba got 26k the night before so there is still a strong market. I also seen somewhere that Tuesday nights game had 800k plus Metro-Fox viewers which is very strong at this time of year and about ten times higher then what the A league get. (Fox and FA)
What the Swans achieve is ridiculously underrated. They are clearly the best supported sports team in Sydney.
 

The_Wookie

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They had already dropped off last year and it is a mid week game while school is still running. The Gabba got 26k the night before so there is still a strong market. I also seen somewhere that Tuesday nights game had 800k plus Metro-Fox viewers which is very strong at this time of year and about ten times higher then what the A league get. (Fox and FA)
What the Swans achieve is ridiculously underrated. They are clearly the best supported sports team in Sydney.
best attended isnt necessarily the same as best supported. no where near the most watched.
 

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