Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

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Aussie in exile

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The NBL, riding on a crest of a wave of improving crowds & ratings, is soon almost certain to establish an NBL team in Hobart.


GR Basketball is growing strongly in Tasmania, as is GR soccer- both at record levels.
Male GR AF club & school competition nos. have been in a long term decline in Tasmania- & the once magnificent Tasmanian recruitment gold mine of star players into the VFL/AFL has, tragically, been greatly diminishing.

Will the introduction of a Tasmanian NBL team provide a stimulus for the AFL to "rescue" the neglected & demoralised Tasmanian GR AF- by introducing a Tas. 19th team into the AFL (which is being widely predicted,starting c. 2025)?
There appears to be 2 Elephants in the Tassie room and if the AFL can't see see it or ignore it they are dumb.
At the moment Tassie is a 100% AF state, but that COULD alter.
 

Our Game

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At least for the Sydney clubs, they have some sort of identity.
The Victory and City represent the whole of Melbourne, and then you have this spud of a club stuck out in the middle of no man's land.
I was out at the Tarneit area yesterday and its if anything gotten more desolate and depressing since I shifted away 10 years back and yes there estates right in the middle of nowhere with poor roads and no normal facilities people would expect.

No wonder the youth are always in trouble as there is nothing for them to do.

Many of these featureless areas on the outskirts of Melbourne esp the ones in the west will be the slums of the future.
The Wyndham Council and the hungry developers have a lot to answer for.
 

Our Game

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1160 Sayers Road in Tarneit looks to be an address on a single lane road, with no pedestrian access nearby even linking it to Wyndham Vale Station (which is at least 3 kilometres awayy). It's basically what Casey Fields was when it was being built 15 years ago, which was a community asset rather than a commercial precinct.

The idea that there'll be a stadium there in three years time seems impossible. Even before we get to zoning permissions, construction contracts and finance - how will the road and rail access be improved that would even make construction possible? Let alone cope with match day traffic of up to 15,000 people?

There's either corruption or incompetence at play. Maybe both?

A pretty solid dose of both.
I would think seeing that most of the crowd will have to come by car they will also need a decent sized car park as well.
I bet the housing estate is well done before the stadium is finished if it ever is built privately!
I think it will be the State govt and the Council that will have to pay to have it finished/built.
 

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jatz14

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There appears to be 2 Elephants in the Tassie room and if the AFL can't see see it or ignore it they are dumb.
At the moment Tassie is a 100% AF state, but that COULD alter.
Let's see if Tasmania blows up in the NBLs face first, an eminently possible scenario.

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Les Malone

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There appears to be 2 Elephants in the Tassie room and if the AFL can't see see it or ignore it they are dumb.
At the moment Tassie is a 100% AF state, but that COULD alter.
FWICS basketball compliments football in many ways.

The only state in Australia that has changed its number one football code to another is WA in the 1890's, albeit both NSW and QLD changed from RU to RL 100 odd years ago.
 

BringBackTorps

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There appears to be 2[?] Elephants in the Tassie room and if the AFL can't see see it or ignore it they are dumb.
At the moment Tassie is a 100% AF state[No], but that COULD alter.[Yes]
FFT CEO M. Bulkeley 9.12.19
"More people play football (referring to soccer- my words) than any other team sport in Tasmania...it's Tasmania's game".


This is a falsehood, which Bulkeley also repeated in early 2019. He is probably referring to the dodgy Ausplay survey (0.1% ONLY of the population surveyed; & deems a person a "participant" if they answer they play a sport only ONCE in the last 12 months!).

Although the Official 2018 Regd. participant nos. of soccer itself, and the AFL, refute his false claim, the FFA prefers to use Ausplay nos. since Ausplay considerably inflates soccer participant nos.- Ausplay is better for their "soccer sleeping giant" narrative.

It is correct, however, that soccer & basketball regd. nos. are at record levels- whilst male GR AF competition nos. are in decline in Tasmania.

The AFL executives, paid about $8,800,000 pa, claim they are the custodians of AF.
"To promote, control, manage, encourage, develop and foster the Australian game of Football".
They have failed badly in Tasmania.
They have also weakened the AFL itself, since Tasmania was once a recruitment goldmine of champions & stars for theVFL/AFL.
 
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The_Wookie

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The AFL executives, paid about $8,800,000 pa, claim they are the custodians of AF.
"To promote, control, manage, encourage develop the Australian game of Football".
They have failed badly in Tasmania.
They have also weakened the AFL itself, since Tasmania was once a recruitment goldmine of champions & stars for theVFL/AFL.
In Australia. Not just Tasmania. And Tasmania isnt exactly a large piece of it. Weakened the AFL? get a grip on the hyperbole for once.
 

BobbyMorri

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Regardless of what will happen at the fan level, I do think an nbl team down here will effect player numbers for the AFL at a pro level. At a small level, perhaps only by one of 2 per generation.

For example, I think it is fair to say hugh Greenwood would be playing in the nbl if we had a team. And they will be able to get into players ears early and with the carrot of not moving interstate if they so wish.

We have had a nbl teams before and though basketball is strong in this state, it is not on the same level as AFL still.

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Rob

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Regardless of what will happen at the fan level, I do think an nbl team down here will effect player numbers for the AFL at a pro level. At a small level, perhaps only by one of 2 per generation.

For example, I think it is fair to say hugh Greenwood would be playing in the nbl if we had a team. And they will be able to get into players ears early and with the carrot of not moving interstate if they so wish.

We have had a nbl teams before and though basketball is strong in this state, it is not on the same level as AFL still.

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It's pretty rare that locals make up more than 3 or 4 of the roster of an NBL team, and even then they're usually the benchwarmers. And on top of that an AFL draftee would be paid signficantly more than a bottom feeder in the NBL (development players get just $17k), plus a lot more people get drafted in the AFL than would commence a professional career in basketball (maybe 20 or 30 a year)?

If you're a potential pro in both sports you'd want to be pretty bloody good at basketball to want to go down that path. Financially you're almost certainly going to be better off in the AFL. If you're the 100th best basketballer in Australia you have basically no pro career. But you're on $500k in the AFL. If you're the 5th best though? Bonanza because you'll get a gig in the NBA. But it's a big call to make at 18.
 

jatz14

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FFT CEO M. Bulkeley 9.12.19
"More people play football (referring to soccer- my words) than any other team sport in Tasmania...it's Tasmania's game".


This is a falsehood, which Bulkeley also repeated in early 2019. He is probably referring to the dodgy Ausplay survey (O.1% ONLY of the population surveyed; & deems a person a "participant" if they answer they play a sport only ONCE in the last 12 months!).

Although the Official 2018 Regd. participant nos. of soccer itself, and the AFL, refute his false claim, the FFA prefers to use Ausplay nos. since Ausplay considerably inflates soccer participant nos.- Ausplay is better for their "soccer sleeping giant" narrative.

It is correct, however, that soccer & basketball regd. nos. are at record levels- whilst male GR AF competition nos. are in decline in Tasmania.

The AFL executives, paid about $8,800,000 pa, claim they are the custodians of AF.
"To promote, control, manage, encourage develop the Australian game of Football".
They have failed badly in Tasmania.
They have also weakened the AFL itself, since Tasmania was once a recruitment goldmine of champions & stars for theVFL/AFL.
Given soccer's official participant numbers include over half a million people that took part in a "promotional event", I don't consider the "official" figures to be any better than Ausplay.

And no, AFL figures do not include an equivalent category.



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Ned_Flanders

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1160 Sayers Road in Tarneit looks to be an address on a single lane road, with no pedestrian access nearby even linking it to Wyndham Vale Station (which is at least 3 kilometres away). It's basically what Casey Fields was when it was being built 15 years ago, which was a community asset rather than a commercial precinct.

The idea that there'll be a stadium there in three years time seems impossible. Even before we get to zoning permissions, construction contracts and finance - how will the road and rail access be improved that would even make construction possible? Let alone cope with match day traffic of up to 15,000 people?

There's either corruption or incompetence at play. Maybe both?
The council plan dating back to 2013 covers all of this. The rail line runs through the land, and this would have a station added to it (same as what happened at Williams Landing).

The council plan dating back to 2014 included indicative costs for roads, parks, bike tracks, train stations, community infrastructure and so on, and total cost was around $770m off mem (borne by govt and developers)

All of this was years before a stadium was even considered
 

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BobbyMorri

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It's pretty rare that locals make up more than 3 or 4 of the roster of an NBL team, and even then they're usually the benchwarmers. And on top of that an AFL draftee would be paid signficantly more than a bottom feeder in the NBL (development players get just $17k), plus a lot more people get drafted in the AFL than would commence a professional career in basketball (maybe 20 or 30 a year)?

If you're a potential pro in both sports you'd want to be pretty bloody good at basketball to want to go down that path. Financially you're almost certainly going to be better off in the AFL. If you're the 100th best basketballer in Australia you have basically no pro career. But you're on $500k in the AFL. If you're the 5th best though? Bonanza because you'll get a gig in the NBA. But it's a big call to make at 18.
money is a moot point here. That won't change regardless of anything which happens

My point is the fact that talent identification would be better for NBL with a local team than anything North Melb could do. And a big selling point is that you get to stay home potentially. There is a reason Tassie is very good at cricket and hockey at the Australian level than, say soccer.
 

Rob

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money is a moot point here. That won't change regardless of anything which happens

My point is the fact that talent identification would be better for NBL with a local team than anything North Melb could do. And a big selling point is that you get to stay home potentially. There is a reason Tassie is very good at cricket and hockey at the Australian level than, say soccer.
I don't think that's got anything to do with the stay at home factor, it would more start when kids are young and they see their local heroes running around and are more inclined to either take up the game or stick with it. That's the effect of a local team. How big that effect is I don't know. What's happened to basketball in Cairns over the last 15 years or so? That would give you an indicator given it's the only professional team in Cairns (funnily enough, not one player on the Cairns roster is actually from Cairns. Or even from Queensland).

I doubt any kid choosing between 2 sports as a professional would go with the one where there's a relatively small possibility of staying at home.
 

jatz14

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I don't think that's got anything to do with the stay at home factor, it would more start when kids are young and they see their local heroes running around and are more inclined to either take up the game or stick with it. That's the effect of a local team. How big that effect is I don't know. What's happened to basketball in Cairns over the last 15 years or so? That would give you an indicator given it's the only professional team in Cairns (funnily enough, not one player on the Cairns roster is actually from Cairns. Or even from Queensland).

I doubt any kid choosing between 2 sports as a professional would go with the one where there's a relatively small possibility of staying at home.
I doubt kids take much notice of such things at all. Family, friends, what they enjoy, what they are good at, is what determines choices. If a kid gets to 18 and is good enough at multiple sports to pursue them as careers, THEN, what career paths are available, and prospect of professional success plays a part, but that is not a lot of people.
 

manicmagpie

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A fantastic Boxing Day crowd of 80,473 at the MCG for day 1 of the Test.

It's the 2nd highest non-Ashes crowd ever at the G. The highest was 85,661 against the West Indies in 1975.

Plenty of Kiwis there as well.

That's 35k more than the entire Gabba test this season, and 15k more than Perth's total. Only need 10k more to pass Adelaide.
 

Ned_Flanders

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A fantastic Boxing Day crowd of 80,473 at the MCG for day 1 of the Test.

It's the 2nd highest non-Ashes crowd ever at the G. The highest was 85,661 against the West Indies in 1975.

Plenty of Kiwis there as well.

That's 35k more than the entire Gabba test this season, and 15k more than Perth's total. Only need 10k more to pass Adelaide.
How was the deck?
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Amazing. Melbourne just keeps on delivering. Settles the Boxing Day argument (if it needed settling).
Not really. Boxing day - a public holiday, would be sold out at any ground around Oz.

And if 25,000 poms come out for the ashes and 15,000 kiwis fly over because its the first boxing day game in 32 years, 60k on day 2 is pretty normal.

YearOppoDay 1Day 2Day 3
2013-14ENG 91,112 78,358 63,873
2014-15IND 69,993 51,566 42,166
2015-16WI 53,389 40,516 26,003
2016-17PAK 63,478 39,339 25,393
2017-18ENG 88,173 67,882 61,839
2018-19IND 73,516 36,524 33,447
2019-20NZ 80,473 59,676
????​
 

Punt Road Feral

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1160 Sayers Road in Tarneit looks to be an address on a single lane road, with no pedestrian access nearby even linking it to Wyndham Vale Station (which is at least 3 kilometres away). It's basically what Casey Fields was when it was being built 15 years ago, which was a community asset rather than a commercial precinct.

The idea that there'll be a stadium there in three years time seems impossible. Even before we get to zoning permissions, construction contracts and finance - how will the road and rail access be improved that would even make construction possible? Let alone cope with match day traffic of up to 15,000 people?

There's either corruption or incompetence at play. Maybe both?
Is it plausible that the whole deal and backing could be susceptible to a laundering type deal or backer?

There was an international soccer magazine that recently published ten ways on how laundering works in the football game or something along these lines. It highlighted the asset stripping that is going on in England and some similar scenarios in Europe with developments.

I know it’s something we haven’t really seen in Australia but the whole deal seems fishy with the silent backers from the get go as well as one of the Directors companies will be building the ground in the future.
 

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