Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

[NoobPie]

As it is, the Ausplay survey has just been released

Haven't trawled through it yet to see if there are any changes from last year but I have put this table together of club participation amongst kids based on a cool interactive power point they have released

Microsoft Power BI

app.powerbi.com

So a few interesting tit bits

-Australian football has more participants aged 5 to 14 in NSW than League does (I hope you don't choke on that Aussie in exile )
-Football has more kids particpating than soccer in each of the three traditional mainland states
-Australian football has more participants than cricket in Queeensland
-Netball has higher participation in the AFL states than the RL ones

 

[jatz14]

I know the AFL have reported numbers in their annual report for a long time, but their break down has been more informative and comprehensive it seems since that 2009 ISP report.

That may be in part the switch to on line registrations. Its now easier to keep track of people than it was.

 

[jatz14]

We can break down the numbers in the AFL report to show it more clearly.

Club Football = 386.9k
School comps = 328.8
Social comps = 24

Total comp participants = 739.7k Note that this does not include Auskick.

Programs

Auskick programs = 205.8
School programs = 686.1
unaccounted = 19

Total Program participation is 909.5k

Comp participants + Programs = total participation 1.65M

Question - does the above figures include officials/umps. These total 50.8k. However, this represents less 3% of the total so doesnt have a large effect, especially if they are always treated the same way year on year.

Its with Association football things get interesting. As the figures are laid out differently, I will put them into the same categories as the AFL does to allow direct comparison.

Club football (youth and senior) = 299.9
Miniroos = 227.7 This is already an issue, closest footy equiv to miniroos is Auskick which the AFL does not count as comp football
Futsal = 46
Social = 93
School comps = 287.5

Total comps = 954k.

Programs.
School programs = 270.9
Diversity programs = 8.3

Total programs = 279.2 noting this does not include Miniroos, and the Footy program numbers do include Auskick.

We can say from the FFA numbers that 65k umps and officials are included in the headline 1.8m participation numbers, but not in the other numbers, where for footy this isnt clear.

Now to the dodgy bit.
Those figures for Soccer add up to 1.23m or 1.3m if you include officials. Footy equivalent is 1.65m

But soccer then adds 550k for 'Community events and promotional experiences'. What is clear is that the AFLs figure do not include any comparable number, and yet the AFL runs community events and promotional experiences.

What the 1.85 million soccer participation figure means depends entirely on what 'community events and promotional experiences' means. It almost certainly includes massive double counting, and possibly includes people with no intention of ever being a player.

This is why I think the AFLs figures are pretty reasonable, you can break down the number to reasonable groups, that clearly belong in the figures somewhere, where soccer includes big numbers that do not clearly mean anything specific.

In my opinion, the numbers we need to look at are.
Junior and senior club numbers
intro leagues (Auskick, miniroos, or the equiv)
School comps (you have to want to play for the school team, you can be made to be a participant of a program).

Everything else is fluff.

For soccer, that totals 815K
For footy, that totals 921.5k

 

[Kwality]

Does school footy get double counted, or more?

Long been my contention that the relationship between participation & top level sport is tenuous.

 

[The_Wookie]

Does school footy get double counted, or more?

We dont know.

Long been my contention that the relationship between participation & top level sport is tenuous.

I think its almost non existent. The disparity between support at the top is rather noticeable.

 

[BringBackTorps]

In my opinion, the numbers we need to look at are.
Junior and senior club numbers
intro leagues (Auskick, miniroos, or the equiv)
School comps (you have to want to play for the school team, you can be made to be a participant of a program).
Everything else is fluff.
For soccer, that totals 815K
For footy, that totals 921.5k [I agree]

I suggest you peruse the information by Munro Mick in posts #24, 27 & 28 & my posts #25 & 32 (which includes Munro Mick's analysis in his The Roar article, cited) in the link below. Munro Mick's The Roar article is easily the most analytical examination of Official AF & soccer participant nos. I have ever seen: either in the MSM, BF or any other areas.

2018 Participation

On 25.2.19, Tas. FFT CEO M. Bulkeley said in the Press release link below, re Tas. soccer regd. nos. "We have also set a target to grow participation to... a total of 26,000 players, VOLUNTEERS, COACHES and REFEREES (my emphases)". This suggests that the FFA might include volunteers, coaches and...

www.bigfooty.com

He has demonstrated the FFA is claiming coaches, referees, & volunteers in its official regd. FFA nos. AFAIK, the AFL does not (on volunteers alone, AF would have c. 200,000 volunteers in 2019).
He also noted the very large, astounding, mysterious recent increase in FFA soccer "Community Events and Promotional Experiences" nos., a lazy c. 550,000! The FFA formally includes these nebulous nos. in their regd. "participant" figures- the AFL does not!

As for Ausplay nos., they are very misleading & inaccurate. They also significantly underestimate AF nos.
Ausplay counts as a "participant" any person interviewed in their survey (only interviews c. 24,000!) as long as a person answers they played a sport even if only ONCE in the last twelve months!

The FFA & soccer officials, soccer websites etc. & some MSM journalists have been falsely claiming that soccer has as many "participants" as AF, RL & RU combined! And, also, falsely claimed there are more soccer participants in WA & Tas. than AF participants!

 

[NoobPie]

We dont know.



I think its almost non existent. The disparity between support at the top is rather noticeable.

I think there is definitely some relationship but there are other factors too, not least the accessibility of the sport (i.e simple and safe). League is a simple sport but certainly not seen as safe and hence the soccer - league participation-viewership imbalance in NSW in particular

 

[NoobPie]

Yesterday's ratings

Rugby World Cup - 763K combined metro....probably a little disappointing given not massively up on last week (though perhaps this is partly due to expat kiwis?)

RL international only 258K combined and 132k metro

WBBL 140K and 123K

and the A League still stinking it up with 53K metro

TV ratings Saturday November 2, 2019

Rugby World Cup final ratings

www.mediaweek.com.au

 

[Kwality]

Yesterday's ratings

Rugby World Cup - 763K combined metro....probably a little disappointing given not massively up on last week (though perhaps this is partly due to expat kiwis?)

RL international only 258K combined and 132k metro

WBBL 140K and 123K

and the A League still stinking it up with 53K metro

TV ratings Saturday November 2, 2019

Rugby World Cup final ratings

www.mediaweek.com.au

The relevance of Aus alone in an international audience ..... ?

 

[NoobPie]

The relevance of Aus alone in an international audience ..... ?

Australia was knocked out in the quarter finals

STV update

TV ratings Saturday November 2, 2019

Rugby World Cup final ratings

www.mediaweek.com.au

354K for the world cup final....i'm not sure if the NRL got that much for a game this year on foxtel?
RL Aus Tonga only 177K

A League 40k and 32K (gulp)

 

[jatz14]

The relevance of Aus alone in an international audience ..... ?

In a comparison of Australian ratings? Relevance is total.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[NoobPie]

In a comparison of Australian ratings? Relevance is total.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

I only worked out what he meant after reading your reply!

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. ABC Offsiders program Host P. Kennedy 27.10

Kennedy said
"When we get past the World Cup (RU), participation in sports is something we will concentrate on".

This will be interesting!
Its affiliate, SBS & SBS commentators, are the worst MSM commentators who promulgate the old soccer lies
"Soccer in Australia has more participants than the other 3 football codes combined etc". (SBS come second only to soccer officials)

Will the ABC regurgitate this? Or just parrot Ausplay's nebulous participant definition ("...played a sport at least once in the last 12 months..."), & Ausplay's virtually useless & very misleading nos. of "participants" (AusPlay is simply a survey of 0.1% of the population, 25,000)?


2. The most current FFA figures I can find are from the FFA White Paper National Second Division Report June 2019

https://www.ffa.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2019-06/16717_FOOTBALL_National%20Second%20Division_Low%20Res_Single%20Pages.pdf

By 2035 "...ambitious plans to double the football community to 15 million, including doubling the number of participants to 4 million..."- pg 3. This implies a current "football community" of 7.5 million, & 2 million current soccer "participants".

Soccer is "...Australia's largest sport..."-pg 6


This Nov. 2017 FFA Report (citing AusPlay nos.) states soccer has "...almost half a million more participants than AFL...".

Football continues to dominate Australian club sport

Football continues to be Australia’s largest club-based participation sport by a wide margin with almost half a million more participants than AFL and more than twice as many as cricket. Rugby League and Rugby Union do not make the list of the top 10 club-based sports in terms of participation...

www.ffa.com.au

The FFA is using these inflated figures as a basis for further govt./council etc financial support for more, & improved, facilities.

Nowhere in any of these reports is it acknowledged soccer (cf AF, RL & RU) is FAR more likely to count the same player multiple times, in various formats of soccer (since indoor & outdoor soccer is played 12 months of the year; &, because it is FAR less strenuous {cf AF, RL & RU}, soccer players need less recovery time- so soccer can be played in different formats, club/school/futsal/social, the next day, or within a few days, of each format).

Many private schools (& parents!) also ban their AF, RL & RU school team players from also playing for community clubs in the same sport.

 

[Kwality]

ABC Offsiders program Host P. Kennedy 27.10

Kennedy said
"When we get past the World Cup (RU), participation in sports is something we will concentrate on".
(He did not say the exact date Offsiders program will examine the participation issue. I assume it will be before the imminent release of the NRL's strategic Review, as P. V'landys has said RL GR participation concerns are one of the main issues to be addressed)

This will be interesting!
Its affiliate, SBS & SBS commentators, are the worst MSM commentators who promulgate the old soccer lies
"Soccer in Australia has more participants than the other 3 football codes combined etc".

Will the ABC regurgitate this; or just parrot Ausplay's virtually useless nos. of "participants" ("...played a sport once in the last 12 months etc...")?

Bit busy today on gender ...

 

[Professor Knowall]

Just for something a bit different on this thread - racing - there was 80,214 for Derby Day, which was more than I expected, given the near constant rain since the early hours of the morning along with all the negative publicity that emenated from that ABC report on the Qld horse abbatoir.

 

[Cmarsh]

Just for something a bit different on this thread - racing - there was 80,214 for Derby Day, which was more than I expected, given the near constant rain since the early hours of the morning along with all the negative publicity that emenated from that ABC report on the Qld horse abbatoir.

They must have been in the marquees because the grandstands looked fairly sparse.

 

[manicmagpie]

So this weekend in Melbourne:

T20 Aus v SL MCG - 28,568
Derby Day Flem - 80,214
AL MVC v WU Docklands - 20,865
AL MCY v WEL AAMI - 6,440

 

[manicmagpie]

A-League Rd 4

Syd v New - 10,511
WSW v Bris - 14,216
Vic v W Utd - 20,865
City v Well - 6,440
Perth v CCM - 8,148

 

[Rabman]

A-League Rd 4

Syd v New - 10,511
WSW v Bris - 14,216
Vic v W Utd - 20,865
City v Well - 6,440
Perth v CCM - 8,148

Surprised by Perth Glory. Considering how good they were last season, they really seem to struggle to pull attendances above 10,000.

 

[NoobPie]

Surprised by Perth Glory. Considering how good they were last season, they really seem to struggle to pull attendances above 10,000.

Perth Glory were a thing in the 90s though. I remember them selling out Subiaco in the old NSL. They are just further along the novelty cycle I would say.

Certainly looks like the A League is heading south for I think the 6th season in a row

 

[Our Game]

1. ABC Offsiders program Host P. Kennedy 27.10

Kennedy said
"When we get past the World Cup (RU), participation in sports is something we will concentrate on".

This will be interesting!
Its affiliate, SBS & SBS commentators, are the worst MSM commentators who promulgate the old soccer lies
"Soccer in Australia has more participants than the other 3 football codes combined etc". (SBS come second only to soccer officials)

Will the ABC regurgitate this? Or just parrot Ausplay's nebulous participant definition ("...played a sport at least once in the last 12 months..."), & Ausplay's virtually useless & very misleading nos. of "participants" (AusPlay is simply a survey of 0.1% of the population, 25,000)?


2. The most current FFA figures I can find are from the FFA White Paper National Second Division Report June 2019

https://www.ffa.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2019-06/16717_FOOTBALL_National%20Second%20Division_Low%20Res_Single%20Pages.pdf

By 2035 "...ambitious plans to double the football community to 15 million, including doubling the number of participants to 4 million..."- pg 3. This implies a current "football community" of 7.5 million, & 2 million current soccer "participants".

Soccer is "...Australia's largest sport..."-pg 6


This Nov. 2017 FFA Report (citing AusPlay nos.) states soccer has "...almost half a million more participants than AFL...".

Football continues to dominate Australian club sport

Football continues to be Australia’s largest club-based participation sport by a wide margin with almost half a million more participants than AFL and more than twice as many as cricket. Rugby League and Rugby Union do not make the list of the top 10 club-based sports in terms of participation...

www.ffa.com.au

The FFA is using these inflated figures as a basis for further govt./council etc financial support for more, & improved, facilities.

The soccer mob and the FFA lies are fooling no one but themselves!

 

[Our Game]

Surprised by Perth Glory. Considering how good they were last season, they really seem to struggle to pull attendances above 10,000.

Just over 60,000 for the round and that includes 20,865 at Marvel and we havent hit the cricket season proper and hot weather yet!The A League/FFA would have to be worried.

 

[Rob]

Surprised by Perth Glory. Considering how good they were last season, they really seem to struggle to pull attendances above 10,000.

They're a bit of a non entity over here. They get smashed by the Wildcats, and then as soon as the BBL starts they've got no chance.

I can thoroughly understand why they'd pull out all the stops to try and get Zlatan, even if only for a few games. They desperately need a reason for people to talk about them again.

 

[Kwality]

They're a bit of a non entity over here. They get smashed by the Wildcats, and then as soon as the BBL starts they've got no chance.

I can thoroughly understand why they'd pull out all the stops to try and get Zlatan, even if only for a few games. They desperately need a reason for people to talk about them again.

Classic example of the missing soccer fans .... lots of them ....

 

[Gigantor]

An unusual aspect about the Glory is that they had 2 or 3 seasons in the NSL when they were getting higher attendances than they get today in the A-League.