Play Nice 2020 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
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The chorus to prune the number of teams (as A. Johns suggested), its deafening or one of us (you & I ) is deaf.
So wh in the mainstream is calling to prune teams?
Your "lack of talent in the AFL" views represent a very narrow, & misleading, analysis. There is sufficient talent to expand to 19 teams, with Tasmania entering c. 2025.
The major problem is the constant congestion (brought about by the cancer of the interchange, & 4 on the bench).

This link describes, from various AF experts, the problems that congestion has caused- taking away time & space for players to demonstrate their good skills.


 
Jul 2, 2010
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What a genuine case you use to support your claim.

I am not claiming our game at the highest level lacks skills, its the depth I'm challenging.

Ive said this before in our discussions - i disagree with the position that there isnt enough depth. I think the clubs make stupid choices in going all out on youth and retiring experienced guys just because its expected, and they are over 30. While there have been recent successes with mature age recruting, not enough goes into looking at 20-25 year olds.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Ive said this before in our discussions - i disagree with the position that there isnt enough depth. I think the clubs make stupid choices in going all out on youth and retiring experienced guys just because its expected, and they are over 30. While there have been recent successes with mature age recruting, not enough goes into looking at 20-25 year olds.

Thats a change in strategy that could result in better list management, my comment is more relevant to additional teams. You are welcome to disagree !!
;)
 

jatz14

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
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What a genuine case you use to support your claim.

I am not claiming our game at the highest level lacks skills, its the depth I'm challenging.
There is an abundance of talent as good as or better than mid level AFL players that never play AFL. There is depth a plenty, it's talent identification and the pathways that are the issue.

If your identified early and fed into the development system, all is good.

However, if you develop later, after being pigeonholed as a not that much of a talent as a junior, as much chance of getting into the AFL as passing a camel through the eye of a needle as they say.

Take Kelly for instance. Got into the AFL of the back of great performances in the WAFL. Came into the AFL, fits in as a top line mid straight away.

He may have been the best mud in the WAFL, but not overwhelmingly so.

What about the second best, or the third, or fourth?

The best mid in the WAFL becomes a star in the AFL, but the second best isn't good enough?

Clubs with weak midfielder passed over proven WAFL, SANFL and VFL mids in favour of 18 year Olds.

Quite a few of these 18 year Olds will never make it, and the reason? They go into the second tier and are regularly destroyed by the established players ignored in favour of the 18 year olds.

I would bet there is as much AFL level talent not in the AFL as there is in it.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
 
Aug 14, 2011
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There is an abundance of talent as good as or better than mid level AFL players that never play AFL. There is depth a plenty, it's talent identification and the pathways that are the issue.

If your identified early and fed into the development system, all is good.

However, if you develop later, after being pigeonholed as a not that much of a talent as a junior, as much chance of getting into the AFL as passing a camel through the eye of a needle as they say.

Take Kelly for instance. Got into the AFL of the back of great performances in the WAFL. Came into the AFL, fits in as a top line mid straight away.

He may have been the best mud in the WAFL, but not overwhelmingly so.

What about the second best, or the third, or fourth?

The best mid in the WAFL becomes a star in the AFL, but the second best isn't good enough?

Clubs with weak midfielder passed over proven WAFL, SANFL and VFL mids in favour of 18 year Olds.

Quite a few of these 18 year Olds will never make it, and the reason? They go into the second tier and are regularly destroyed by the established players ignored in favour of the 18 year olds.

I would bet there is as much AFL level talent not in the AFL as there is in it.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

Examples of success stories from the 2nd tier is to ignore the issue of depth of talent of the player pool. The numbers required to fill just one list is what is being asked
 

jatz14

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Examples of success stories from the 2nd tier is to ignore the issue of depth of talent of the player pool. The numbers required to fill just one list is what is being asked
I recall a comment about the AFLW in the lead up to its establishment, and the question mark about how many teams the talent pool could sustain. The comment was by Darren Flanagan the Vic talent manager for the AFL.

His comment was, you needed the maximum number of AFLW teams possible. He favoured 8 from the get go. More teams = more players churned through the system, more development squads, more pathways, more scouts searching second or third level comps for that special talent. Minimising team numbers due to a lack of talent, minimises the available talent.

8 teams might hurt the quality of the AFLW year 1, but it means more talent is available faster, and quality grows faster, than if you keep the numbers low year 1, due to a perception on the available talent.

My suspicion is, the same thing would work with the AFL. Hypothetically, if the number of teams was cut by 4, due to a perception of lack of talent, the amount of talent available, goes down. You end up with the same amount of talent per team, just with less teams.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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I recall a comment about the AFLW in the lead up to its establishment, and the question mark about how many teams the talent pool could sustain. The comment was by Darren Flanagan the Vic talent manager for the AFL.

His comment was, you needed the maximum number of AFLW teams possible. He favoured 8 from the get go. More teams = more players churned through the system, more development squads, more pathways, more scouts searching second or third level comps for that special talent. Minimising team numbers due to a lack of talent, minimises the available talent.

8 teams might hurt the quality of the AFLW year 1, but it means more talent is available faster, and quality grows faster, than if you keep the numbers low year 1, due to a perception on the available talent.

My suspicion is, the same thing would work with the AFL. Hypothetically, if the number of teams was cut by 4, due to a perception of lack of talent, the amount of talent available, goes down. You end up with the same amount of talent per team, just with less teams.

Not sure AFLW is comparable to the depth of talent in the AFL.

Are you suggesting adding teams has worked for the talent pool?
 
May 13, 2012
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Not sure AFLW is comparable to the depth of talent in the AFL.

Are you suggesting adding teams has worked for the talent pool?

In a short space of time we have gone from 8 to 14 teams, a 75% increase.
We may not have had exactly a 75% increase in the talent pool, but not far off it.
In other words, the increase in teams has been more of a benefit than a hindrance in increasing the talent pool, which makes intuitive sense.
Personally I have zero fears about going to 18 AFLW teams in the near future.
 
Jul 2, 2010
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In a short space of time we have gone from 8 to 14 teams, a 75% increase.
We may not have had exactly a 75% increase in the talent pool, but not far off it.
In other words, the increase in teams has been more of a benefit than a hindrance in increasing the talent pool, which makes intuitive sense.
Personally I have zero fears about going to 18 AFLW teams in the near future.

The difference is AFLW is designed to grow the grassroots and the quality of the top tier is not the highest priority for the league. Its the next generation of players that will lift it up. So you can have 4 teams or 18 teams and is not really the issue.

With the AFL its different, the league is well established and the grassroots already exists as does the talent pathways and there does seem to be issues putting together enough top tier talent for every one of the 18 clubs. More top level clubs will not change the economic factors driving clubs to a close in regional and rural australia, although it may save Tasmanian football in themedium to long term.
 

jatz14

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The difference is AFLW is designed to grow the grassroots and the quality of the top tier is not the highest priority for the league. Its the next generation of players that will lift it up. So you can have 4 teams or 18 teams and is not really the issue.

With the AFL its different, the league is well established and the grassroots already exists as does the talent pathways and there does seem to be issues putting together enough top tier talent for every one of the 18 clubs. More top level clubs will not change the economic factors driving clubs to a close in regional and rural australia, although it may save Tasmanian football in themedium to long term.
I dont think it has the effect that there is in AFLW. However, a Tasmanian AFL team would increase the amount of AFL ready talent coming out of Tasmania imop. I think GWS and GCS increase the amount coming out of those states respectively.

As a hypothetical, if the AFL was just Victorian still, there should be heaps of talent available, however, the number of non Victorians in the comp is drastically less.

There isnt the immediate and dramatic link there is in AFLW, but there is a link. Just the number of spots available feeds back into peoples decisions to have a crack at a footy career.

I know in WA, the prospect of the Eagles coming into the AFLW, and the maths of how many spots that meant were up for grabs, figured into womens calculations of really pursuing the possibility of getting drafted.

Theoretically, there should be shitloads of top end soccer talent running around, but there doesn't seem to be, surprising given the potential rewards from a big overseas contract. I suspect part of the reason for that is lack of opportunity. The number of clubs, the number of spots in clubs, factor in how many of the starting spots are taken by overseas players. There just isnt nearly as much opportunity getting on a list. Ideally, this just means only the cream of the cream make it, but I think a lot of the cream has decided to do something else with life by the time they are 17.
 
Nov 8, 2000
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I dont think it has the effect that there is in AFLW. However, a Tasmanian AFL team would increase the amount of AFL ready talent coming out of Tasmania imop. I think GWS and GCS increase the amount coming out of those states respectively.

I think the effect would be negligible. The participation rate in Tassie is already relatively high and isn't likely to signficantly increase like it has in NSW and Queensland. It might increase a bit, but it wouldn't double or something of that magnitude. I also don't think many elite level kids would currently choose to play another sport over trying for the AFL now, at least not in Tassie. So there's no rivers of gold there either.

What a Tassie team would do though is likely increase the number of Tassie players in the AFL, as they'd obviously have a natural bias towards recruiting Tasmanians. You'd expect at least 10-15 of their list to be locals, possibly more.
 
Jul 5, 2011
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A League Rd 15:

Adl v MVC - 11,412
Bri v Well - 9,987
MCY v New - 6,857
WUD v CCM - 6,020
WSW v Per - 10,994

The Western United match was free entry.

Well... it wasn't really free, A donation to enter. Still a very poor crowd considering. Most concerning is City's crowd, They are doing well are in second spot and still can't manager to pull a crowd! the club hasn't grow at all since the days of Heart if anything probably gone backwards with the CFG take over!
 
Nov 8, 2000
33,295
21,790
South of the river
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Fremantle
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Peel Thunder
A League Rd 15:

Adl v MVC - 11,412
Bri v Well - 9,987
MCY v New - 6,857
WUD v CCM - 6,020
WSW v Per - 10,994

The Western United match was free entry.

Lol wut? They must be losing millions. Just staging a match wouldn't be cheap, if your gate receipts are zero then you're going to be hundreds of thousands extra in the hole every single game.

And these people actually paid $15 million or so for the right to do this.
 
Lol wut? They must be losing millions. Just staging a match wouldn't be cheap, if your gate receipts are zero then you're going to be hundreds of thousands extra in the hole every single game.

And these people actually paid $15 million or so for the right to do this.

I'm guessing that a match against Central Coast was always going to be about the lowest crowd for the season, and most people who would have gone anyway were probably members or had free tickets some other way.

Gate takings would have been minimal so decided to try and entice some people in with free entry to try and build a supporter base. Not the worst idea but still didn't manage to get many people going.

Western United don't look like they've managed to create much support, but then again look at the crowds relatively established clubs are getting this season and it doesn't look quite so bad.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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Lol wut? They must be losing millions. Just staging a match wouldn't be cheap, if your gate receipts are zero then you're going to be hundreds of thousands extra in the hole every single game.

And these people actually paid $15 million or so for the right to do this.

Unless they were paid to play the game there - it happens. Break even would be a big call, certainly no ROI.
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
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Another Aust. punter succeeds in the NFL- & will play in the Super Bowl.


It would be great if the torpedo returned regularly to AF, simply because of its aesthetic appeal & exhiliration (for the kicker, & the crowd). Many MSM AF experts have said the monster torp goals are some of AF's greatest highlights- & produce the biggest crowd roars.

Additionally, perfecting the more difficult (smaller sweet spot) torpedo would assist in transitioning more amateur & pro AF players to a lucrative NFL career.
 

weewilly

All Australian
Jul 18, 2003
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The BBL crowds this season have dropped a lot according to an article in The Age today.

"There has been an average of 17,921 fans across the first 46 games of BBL09, down 11.5 per cent on the corresponding stage of the 2018/19 edition, and 12.8 per cent overall.
While some may use the dip in turnouts to attack the BBL, the league has still dragged more than 800,000 fans to a domestic competition - numbers which would be the envy of summer rivals the A-League and the National Basketball League. "
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
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The BBL crowds this season have dropped a lot according to an article in The Age today.

"There has been an average of 17,921 fans across the first 46 games of BBL09, down 11.5 per cent on the corresponding stage of the 2018/19 edition, and 12.8 per cent overall.
While some may use the dip in turnouts to attack the BBL, the league has still dragged more than 800,000 fans to a domestic competition - numbers which would be the envy of summer rivals the A-League and the National Basketball League. "
They have probably held up better then I expected considering the regional games, afternoon on weekday games and weather affected matches.
I imagine it will go close to 100million viewing hours on tv too so it is getting plenty of attention still.
 
Sep 24, 2006
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...It would be great if the torpedo returned regularly to AF, simply because of its aesthetic appeal & exhiliration (for the kicker, & the crowd). Many MSM AF experts have said the monster torp goals are some of AF's greatest highlights- & produce the biggest crowd roars.
Malcolm Blight likes this.
 
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