2019 Non-Crows AFL Chat Part 2

[radiojake]

Changing subject I'm still stunned at the lack of media focus on Brad Ebert's concussion issues. Has only just got back on the field this weekend and has had multiple checks with a specialist. There should be a major focus on how Port have handled his knocks over the years.

Yes back on the footy

Did you see how Port let Jonas stay on and run around after he went down? Check out 'the round so far' with flog Cornes

 

[treeman]

Changing subject I'm still stunned at the lack of media focus on Brad Ebert's concussion issues. Has only just got back on the field this weekend and has had multiple checks with a specialist. There should be a major focus on how Port have handled his knocks over the years.

Agreed, but their professionals down there.

Best in the business.

Don't you ever question them.

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[Geoffa32]

As part of his Tribunal punishment he should be forced to wear hideous rainbow boots so everyone can identify and boo him easily

..

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[subaru]

Changing subject I'm still stunned at the lack of media focus on Brad Ebert's concussion issues. Has only just got back on the field this weekend and has had multiple checks with a specialist. There should be a major focus on how Port have handled his knocks over the years.

That Showdown he concussed himself IIRC

Edit
Remembered - I think Young’s boot got Ebert before Sloane’s accidental contact in a spoilt

Appalling that we never fought that!

 

[treeman]

So I read Hinkley believes Kane Farrel could be as good as Michael Walters.

Surely he's jumped the shark!

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[Punchy Bassett]

Yes back on the footy

Did you see how Port let Jonas stay on and run around after he went down? Check out 'the round so far' with flog Cornes

Just caught up with that, I thought there were new rules stating the player gets zero choice and the club got massive fines if they didn't test players?

 

[Punchy Bassett]

So I read Hinkley believes Kane Farrel could be as good as Michael Walters.

Surely he's jumped the shark!

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Not under Hinkley he won't.

 

[subaru]

So I read Hinkley believes Kane Farrel could be as good as Michael Walters.

Surely he's jumped the shark!

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Ken - the King Of Hyperbole

Same guy that said the Melb won was the best ever

 

[jenny61_99]

Agree Jen

This whole debate is evidence of the two theories in sociology to how society changes - Consensus or Conflict

Some (usually on the right/conservative side of politics) prefer the Consensus theory - that society changes when we all come together and agree on how to do things. In race relations this plays out as “indigenous people would be better off if they worked with white people and didn’t do anything that made them feel uncomfortable”. It’s the thinking behind the idea that Goodes’ “spear throwing” dance was “antagonistic”. People with this perspective on society tend to not like the idea of “Invasion Day” because they’d rather we all just celebrate Australia Day together and get along and, as John Howard said, focus on the things that unite us rather than the things that divide us

Others (usually on the left/progressive side of politic) prefer the Conflict theory - that society only changes when we acknowledge and deal with the conflict that exists between sections of society. That the play nice/work together Consensus approach actually benefits those who already have power and status, and that the only way to improve the conditions of those who don’t have power or status or are marginalized or disadvantaged is to speak out, even if it makes other people uncomfortable. This approach doesn’t view the “spear throwing” dance as antagonistic because it sees it within the broader context of ongoing and systemic racism, which is the true “bad” thing as it causes real harm and suffering, not an indigenous player in indigenous week wearing an indigenous guernsey doing an indigenous dance causing no real harm, except making some comfortable white people feel vaguely somehow uncomfortable and “threatened”. People with this perspective have no problem with the “Invasion Day” terminology because it recognizes that, for indigenous people, it’s a fact that their land was invaded and occupied by a foreign power. And people with this perspective also point out that Howard’s “focus on the things that unite us rather than the things that divide us” works well for those of us who already have most of what we need in life, but for those who are on the receiving end of what divides us, that approach only perpetuates their suffering and disadvantage

So maybe we all consider that our opinion is coloured by our own perspective on this

And the fact that we don’t boo other indigenous people, or that there were reasons to dislike Adam Goodes that aren’t race related, doesn’t mean that some/most of the booing against him wasn’t racist. It doesn’t have to be an all or nothing argument

I absolutely get the people in here that said they booed him because they thought he was a flog (for whatever reason related to football).... but that they stopped booing him when it became clear that some were booing him as a racist thing. THIS is the difference here. Those that chose to keep booing? Well, they really had no excuse.

 

[Maddogmetro]

And then he will cry because he's the victim. He's such a low dog.

Are you also one of the people who said his Australian of the Year speech was divisive, but didn't even listen to the speech to realise it was the exact opposite?

 

[jenny61_99]

And once again Jeff Kennett puts his foot in it as "I'm not racist but..." proclaiming he knows that the security staff are all new arrivals to Australia just on the basis of their looks.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/a430b810e723cf4fb10cb75fc8215cf3

Oh FFS.

 

[Mego Red]

Nah, he just publicly humiliated a 13 year old girl.

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He made incredibly clear that he didn't want anyone to blame her.

The people to blame with those around her who would condone racist language from themselves or others.

 

[GameofSloanes]

I agree there were probably different reasons, but I'll refute some of these:

1. He was booed because of his on-field actions including diving, sliding, staging and getting off at the Tribunal
Many players do these actions, and aren't booed (Selwood, Kornes, Richardson, Cotchin, etc)
2. He was also booed because the AFL told the public not to boo him. People don't like being told what to do, so the boos increased
The AFL sat on their hands for about 6 weeks hoping this would go away before saying anything - it was a problem before they said anything aboutit
3. He was also booed because he became Australian of the Year, which some people perceived was undeserved
Conversely, Steve Waugh wasn't booed, in fact, quite the opposite in similar circumstances.
4. He was also booed because he identified someone who made racist comments in the crowd, which some people perceived as wrong due to the age of the person, public humiliation and other factors
Yet those same people (I know, generalising) would demand we name and shame kids of a similar age who graffiti
5. He was also booed because he was outspoken on indigenous issues, which some people (often subconscious racists) don't like and felt he was pretentious, annoying, etc.
Correct - and I say to those people, are you booing Dangerfield, Rosie Batty or players such as Jack Steven who speak up about mental health issues which makes some people feel uncomfortable?
6. He was also booed directly because he was indigenous, by racists
Correct - plus the uneducated
7. He was also booed because he was indigenous, by racists, who used the other issues including #1 and #2 as cover to hide their racism and 'get away with it'
Correct - plus those who can't actually say why they 'don't like him' or answer why they don't boo other players 'they don't like'

My comment - I'm not hearing Eddie Macguire being booed in his daily role - now he has said some terrible things on multiple occasions and his apologies carry as much weight as the network enforced apologies of Sam Newman for making degrading comments about {insert multiple options here}

Agree with most of this except #1. But that's probably because I have booed all those guys.
Once Goodes said he felt it was racist though it needed to stop, regardless of intentions
The double standard with other people eg eddie mcguire is obvious and terrible

 

[jenny61_99]

And I’ve replied to your post about what “the face of racism” actually means

And the answer is Yes. My post must be above somewhere

And it’s only an “almost healed wound” to those of us who aren’t affected by racism on a daily basis

This isn’t just one little incident that we’ve all forgotten about and surely it’s over by now and can’t we just go back to talking about footy and why is he raising it now ? oh I see he wants money from it by a movie or lawsuit because that must be the only reason

This is his daily life. Affected by systemic racism everyday. He’s dedicated himself to combatting it. It’s not a healed wound to him or the many indigenous people affected by it

He’s not ripping the scab off for money. It’s a wound that hasn’t healed at all. He’s trying to stop it happening again

 

[Maddogmetro]

Why was Ablett booed?

Why do we boo Lever?

Is it racist if we boo Cameron?

These guys are all booed because of something they did.

I understand the boo was because Goodes called out racism. But was it because he called out the act, or because he picked on a lil girl?



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None of those players are boo'd every week no matter the team, no matter the ground, every time they touch the ball, for weeks on end.

 

[Mego Red]

The name she called him is completely unacceptable.

And yes he probably thought she was older and possibly realised it was a mistake. The look of horror may have been knowing he just called out a kid. A grown man doing so is not gonna be a good look. He made her the face of racism. A kid.

He did the right thing. But the kid was the wrong target.

I have no doubt he faced racism in his career. Especially growing up. I know personally how much crap Phil, Ricky and Michael O'Laughlin copped as kids.

But logically him being booed had more to do with exposing a 13 year old girl than the colour of his skin. I can guarantee you if it it was loutish looking mid 20s guy with a beer in hand that he called out no one would have booed him.


Well apart from the times he went knees first into a contest.






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People on this board have said they booed him because they felt he was arrogant and uppity.

They felt that because of what he said about the treatment of Aboriginals. They felt he politicized the Australian of the year award - which he did, and he should have.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Are you also one of the people who said his Australian of the Year speech was divisive, but didn't even listen to the speech to realise it was the exact opposite?

If you read further down you will see I thought they were talking about Kane Cornes.

 

[Mego Red]

So you can tell a joke that may have a woman in it but if I perceive it as sexist, it is ?????

No
Sometimes a boo is just a boo

And a joke is just a joke

Anyway
I’ve wasted way too many megabytes on this flog

If someone says "I think booing of me is racist and hurtful," and you know that, and you boo him anyway?

You know what you're doing.

 

[Mego Red]

Devils advocate here.

Is it not inconceivable that the Carlton supporters perceived Goodes' spear throwing actions as racist also?

I personally didn't but what's good for the goose has to be good for the gander. He is hoisting himself from his own petard, or is racism only one way?

Serious question.

Indigenous people have lived with a history of incredible high incarceration rates, widespread poverty, attempted genocide, theft of land and wages.

As a White Guy, I know that me and my family before me have never had to deal with anything like that.

Adam Goodes doing a war dance to a crowd that was booing him is not a racist act. I don't see how it could be perceived as one. It's certainly an aggressive act, but by then it was probably something he felt he needed to express.

Personally, I don't think a racist act can happen to a group that is the majority and the empowered. Racist acts happen when people are punching down, not up.

 

[Mego Red]

And I’ve replied to your post about what “the face of racism” actually means

And the answer is Yes. My post must be above somewhere

And it’s only an “almost healed wound” to those of us who aren’t affected by racism on a daily basis

This isn’t just one little incident that we’ve all forgotten about and surely it’s over by now and can’t we just go back to talking about footy and why is he raising it now ? oh I see he wants money from it by a movie or lawsuit because that must be the only reason

This is his daily life. Affected by systemic racism everyday. He’s dedicated himself to combatting it. It’s not a healed wound to him or the many indigenous people affected by it

He’s not ripping the scab off for money. It’s a wound that hasn’t healed at all. He’s trying to stop it happening again

Jesus, your series of posts on this subject are absolutely top shelf.

 

[radiojake]

Just caught up with that, I thought there were new rules stating the player gets zero choice and the club got massive fines if they didn't test players?

Also weirdly Kornes was saying it was ok because the Port drs "checked the footage" and cleared him - wtf? Imagine if Paddy McCartin played for Port in his last JLT game? The most innocuous headknock you'd ever see

 

[Bay62]

Jesus, your series of posts on this subject are absolutely top shelf.

Thanks mate, always room for a little perspective on these things hey

 

[Brenton Davy]

Indigenous people have lived with a history of incredible high incarceration rates, widespread poverty, attempted genocide, theft of land and wages.

As a White Guy, I know that me and my family before me have never had to deal with anything like that.

Adam Goodes doing a war dance to a crowd that was booing him is not a racist act. I don't see how it could be perceived as one. It's certainly an aggressive act, but by then it was probably something he felt he needed to express.

Personally, I don't think a racist act can happen to a group that is the majority and the empowered. Racist acts happen when people are punching down, not up.

I was a police officer for 20 years and I was racially vilified regularly. Now I was in the position of power and was not particularly concerned about the vilification but there was no doubt of the intent. Position of privilege is irrelevant to the argument of whether words or actions are racist in content or intent. To say it is justifies racism by those who have been downtrodden or discriminated against.

I abhor racism in all forms but I won’t accept the assertion that racism is only a one way street

 

[SydCrow]

How many weeks for the pathetic captain of Hawthorn?

 

[Mattrox]

The booing was going on well before the 13 year old girl business.

It started after he was made Australian of the Year, and said some things that made people feel uncomfortable.

Accept correlation =/= causation, but it's hard not to draw a direct link between his comments at the Australian of the Year Ceremony and the commencement of booing.

Watch the Australian of the year speech on youtube. If there is anything in that that upsets anyone, then they are seriously thin skinned.

This argument gets used all the time but I have dug and dug and cannot find any transcript or video where is instigates anything remotely controversial.

I do remember people not liking the fact that he was nominated. I think every thing else was people projecting their own insecurities.

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