Training 2019 preseason discussion

Tulip

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 3, 2009
Posts
31,251
Likes
24,648
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham
Because he takes a lot of dumb contests against his defender when they simply play him from behind. Guy isn't comfortable leading up to the ball carrier for whatever reason and it shows.
That's true, but he's still quite prolific regardless and it's the marks and goals we're going to have to replace. Imagine what he'll do if he ever figures it out?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

schmuttt

Premium Platinum
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Posts
18,820
Likes
28,090
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
Thread starter #402
That's true, but he's still quite prolific regardless and it's the marks and goals we're going to have to replace. Imagine what he'll do if he ever figures it out?
We'll replace them comfortably. He kicked 47 goals for the year, in 2020:

TMac missed the first 5 games of 2018, safe to say he kicks at least 10 in those games if he plays them all in 2019. +10
Petracca doesn't kick 19.32 for the year again, goes back to his 2017 accuracy and kicks 30.15. +10
May improves us the other way, we concede 15 less goals in 2019. +15
Weideman kicks a goal a game. +20

I'm not worried at all about replacing what we lost with Jesse, aside from the Brisbane game all his goals were pretty inconsequential to results.
 

blitznu

Club Legend
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Posts
1,386
Likes
1,454
AFL Club
Melbourne
This is where hyperbole is the enemy. KK hasn't done shit for three years, that's why Hogan going for 6 and 23 was unders whilst KK was steak knives in the May deal. KK has little demonstrated marking ability like Hogan has, while you can count the number of Hogan-quality games Weideman has had on one hand. Hannan and ANB, particularly Hannan, are inconsistent AFL players. Both are quicker than Hogan, but neither is necessarily quicker than their immediate opponent in the same way that Hogan is quicker than most full backs. ANB has the stamina Hogan has, Hannan demonstrably does not. All four of these guys could and hopefully will step-up to ensure we become stronger and cover Hogan, but bugger me. A 50 goal a year forward is a huge loss. A 20 touch, 6 mark key forward is a huge loss. It doesn't mean it'll end our club like some opposition fans might fancy, and we did find without Hogan for 4 out of the final 5 games of the year, but you're absolutely kidding yourselves if you think we'll be able to cover him with no effort. That's kinda why the massive deal that got him to Freo wasn't enough in all of our eyes. The biggest issue in my eyes will be the percentage. Hogan was great at putting mediocre teams to the sword. Our percentage was massive last year, and realistically could be the difference between a home final and an away final again.
Whos a 50 goal a year player? Pretty sure Hogan has never kicked 50. If ya gonna carry on about what Hogan is and others arent then dont be fudging the numbers. Id be surprised if Hogan got better at freo with Lyon there and being around the lads.
 

Tulip

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 3, 2009
Posts
31,251
Likes
24,648
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Tottenham
We'll replace them comfortably. He kicked 47 goals for the year, in 2020:

TMac missed the first 5 games of 2018, safe to say he kicks at least 10 in those games if he plays them all in 2019. +10
Petracca doesn't kick 19.32 for the year again, goes back to his 2017 accuracy and kicks 30.15. +10
May improves us the other way, we concede 15 less goals in 2019. +15
Weideman kicks a goal a game. +20

I'm not worried at all about replacing what we lost with Jesse, aside from the Brisbane game all his goals were pretty inconsequential to results.
But that's effectively a break even? If that's the way it even happens.
Whos a 50 goal a year player? Pretty sure Hogan has never kicked 50. If ya gonna carry on about what Hogan is and others arent then dont be fudging the numbers. Id be surprised if Hogan got better at freo with Lyon there and being around the lads.
Ok sorry, he's a 44 or 47 goal a year forward.

I don't get why its so difficult to admit that we well indeed miss the bloke? Even though its not as much as the public might think.
 

schmuttt

Premium Platinum
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Posts
18,820
Likes
28,090
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
Thread starter #405
But that's effectively a break even? If that's the way it even happens.


Ok sorry, he's a 44 or 47 goal a year forward.

I don't get why its so difficult to admit that we well indeed miss the bloke? Even though its not as much as the public might think.
I don’t think we will miss him because as I said Brisbane game aside I don’t think any of his goals won us a game.
 

Andy_Mac

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Posts
5,319
Likes
2,939
Location
Torquay
AFL Club
Melbourne
This is where hyperbole is the enemy. KK hasn't done shit for three years, that's why Hogan going for 6 and 23 was unders whilst KK was steak knives in the May deal. KK has little demonstrated marking ability like Hogan has, while you can count the number of Hogan-quality games Weideman has had on one hand. Hannan and ANB, particularly Hannan, are inconsistent AFL players. Both are quicker than Hogan, but neither is necessarily quicker than their immediate opponent in the same way that Hogan is quicker than most full backs. ANB has the stamina Hogan has, Hannan demonstrably does not. All four of these guys could and hopefully will step-up to ensure we become stronger and cover Hogan, but bugger me. A 50 goal a year forward is a huge loss. A 20 touch, 6 mark key forward is a huge loss. It doesn't mean it'll end our club like some opposition fans might fancy, and we did find without Hogan for 4 out of the final 5 games of the year, but you're absolutely kidding yourselves if you think we'll be able to cover him with no effort. That's kinda why the massive deal that got him to Freo wasn't enough in all of our eyes. The biggest issue in my eyes will be the percentage. Hogan was great at putting mediocre teams to the sword. Our percentage was massive last year, and realistically could be the difference between a home final and an away final again.
The best thing about % is there’s a numerator and a denominator...

Last year the delta between Jessie and Weid was only a goal a game. Having May in the side means that we shouldn’t be the highest conceding team in the 8.
 

Fork n Hell

All Australian
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Posts
647
Likes
565
AFL Club
Melbourne
just taking the 47 goals out that Hogan kicks last year and saying 'we now have to find these goals' is such bullcrap. its about how the forward half, and team for that matter, operates together, not as individuals. I doubt we'll notice that he's gone myself, like we didn't at the end of last year.
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
30,335
Likes
36,383
Location
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
But that's effectively a break even? If that's the way it even happens.


Ok sorry, he's a 44 or 47 goal a year forward.

I don't get why its so difficult to admit that we well indeed miss the bloke? Even though its not as much as the public might think.
Because alot of us don't think he was a difference in enough games. It was a trend over a number of years in big games that we won without him that our forward line functioned better.

We don't have to replace his 50 goals. If we concede 40 less goals for the season them even replacing half an we are laughing. Considering how bad our defence was replacing 47 goals is the least of our problem.

FACT if we scored 25 less goals this season we still would have been the highest scoring team in the league.
So we only have to replace 22 goals.

FACT if you take out all of Hogans goals we were still top 4 for scoring.

His work inside 50 was poor and nothing that Petracca or Melksham or Weld couldn't handle if as much footy was directed through them. I really couldn't give a stuff about him getting 20 disposals in the midfield, he did no damage with the ball any half decent midfield couldn't do. Hogan doing handballs behind his head on the HBF isn't gonna be hard to replace.

He may very well kick 50 goals for freo but it's gonna take them a shitload of inside 50s to get it to him and i bet they lose more than they win
 

TheCount

Spec Moderator
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Posts
7,593
Likes
11,063
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Blackhawks, Packers
Moderator #409
This is where hyperbole is the enemy. KK hasn't done shit for three years, that's why Hogan going for 6 and 23 was unders whilst KK was steak knives in the May deal. KK has little demonstrated marking ability like Hogan has, while you can count the number of Hogan-quality games Weideman has had on one hand. Hannan and ANB, particularly Hannan, are inconsistent AFL players. Both are quicker than Hogan, but neither is necessarily quicker than their immediate opponent in the same way that Hogan is quicker than most full backs. ANB has the stamina Hogan has, Hannan demonstrably does not. All four of these guys could and hopefully will step-up to ensure we become stronger and cover Hogan, but bugger me. A 50 goal a year forward is a huge loss. A 20 touch, 6 mark key forward is a huge loss. It doesn't mean it'll end our club like some opposition fans might fancy, and we did find without Hogan for 4 out of the final 5 games of the year, but you're absolutely kidding yourselves if you think we'll be able to cover him with no effort. That's kinda why the massive deal that got him to Freo wasn't enough in all of our eyes. The biggest issue in my eyes will be the percentage. Hogan was great at putting mediocre teams to the sword. Our percentage was massive last year, and realistically could be the difference between a home final and an away final again.
In fairness ... I'm literally talking about a combination of 4 players across different areas of the ground covering what Hogan did bring, so no way am I suggesting we'll cover him no problem, but I can be done. Again, he's a very good player, but he's an average key forward.
 

markm106

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Posts
6,809
Likes
4,858
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
The last 5 games he missed and the way we played and scored give me confidence. But Hogan will not be easily replaced.

We are naturally a high scoring attaching side so I think we’ll be able to make up the short fall. I’d like to see Weideman have a 35+ goal year. Preuss should also kick a few. I’d say he’s good for a goal a game average.
 

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
30,335
Likes
36,383
Location
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
There is so many different possible machinations. With Preuss in the side Gawn can sit in the Goal square an might kick 20 or 30 goals easily. Especially with the 6-6-6 meaning if Preuss wins a tap down to Oliver he can kick it inside 50 to Gawn 1 on 1...
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Topkent

Premium Platinum
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Posts
30,335
Likes
36,383
Location
Canada
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Winnipeg Jets
What was everyone's favourite goal of last year?
For mine there were 3 standouts.
In 3rd was Melkshams goal against Hawthorn in the last of the semi. Absoloutely clutch.
2nd was Dean Kent's long bomb from 50 against WC. That goal was the moment I knew we were playing finals for the first time in years.
For sentimentality I can't go past Jones goal at the start of the last against Geelong. There's no one else who deseved that moment in the AFL more than Jones.

Special mention to Hannans goal to ice the game in the last against Geelong. That crows noise was speciallllllll
 

booshboy

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Posts
2,043
Likes
2,599
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
What was everyone's favourite goal of last year?
For mine there were 3 standouts.
In 3rd was Melkshams goal against Hawthorn in the last of the semi. Absoloutely clutch.
2nd was Dean Kent's long bomb from 50 against WC. That goal was the moment I knew we were playing finals for the first time in years.
For sentimentality I can't go past Jones goal at the start of the last against Geelong. There's no one else who deseved that moment in the AFL more than Jones.

Special mention to Hannans goal to ice the game in the last against Geelong. That crows noise was speciallllllll
Mine was Melksham, I was starting to shit myself then he goes and does that well against the flow.

Anyone that answers anything other than one of the four you mentioned is wrong.
 

harry000

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Posts
6,715
Likes
10,346
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
New England Patriots
There is so many different possible machinations. With Preuss in the side Gawn can sit in the Goal square an might kick 20 or 30 goals easily. Especially with the 6-6-6 meaning if Preuss wins a tap down to Oliver he can kick it inside 50 to Gawn 1 on 1...
Essentially what I said in the other thread :p Great minds.
 

schmuttt

Premium Platinum
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Posts
18,820
Likes
28,090
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
West Ham United
Thread starter #421
As much as I loved the Jones goal (The best bit is the anticipation in the crowd when they realize who is about to have a shot on goal) I reckon the Melksham goal is my favourite. 60K Melbourne fans shitting themselves at a potential choke and he casually kicks a 55m goal on his left foot around the body. Like seriously wtf?
 
Last edited:

harry000

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Posts
6,715
Likes
10,346
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
New England Patriots
As much as I loved the Jones goal (The best bit is the anticipation in the crowd when they realize who is about to have a shot on goal) I reckon the Melksham goal is my favourite. 60K Melbourne fans shitting themselves at a potential
choke and he casually kicks a 55m goal on his left foot around the body. Like seriously wtf?
When is the last time we had a player that kicked those type of goals so casually? :think: Been a while!
 

TheCount

Spec Moderator
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Posts
7,593
Likes
11,063
Location
Brisbane
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Blackhawks, Packers
Moderator #424
Hey guys

Do you think Harmes will play a big tagging roll this year?
Almost certainly ... He really found his niche in the role in the back end of last season, and most importantly, he was still able to accumulate going back the other way, averaging 25 disposals and just under a goal in the last 8 games of the season, while taking the oppositions best mid largely out of games at the same time. So I'd imagine the plan is to emulate that, rather than tinker with it.
 

Bluelegs

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Posts
19,791
Likes
32,237
Location
Robbo's sleeve
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Axiom, Greenbay Packers
As much as I loved the Jones goal (The best bit is the anticipation in the crowd when they realize who is about to have a shot on goal) I reckon the Melksham goal is my favourite. 60K Melbourne fans shitting themselves at a potential
choke and he casually kicks a 55m goal on his left foot around the body. Like seriously wtf?
That goal was phenomenal. If it wasn't during a final it would have been a GotY contender.
 
Top Bottom