News 2019 Rumour File - discuss rumours here! (Part 2)

[Mego Red]

No... it's based on my recollection of events (albeit from a long time ago), and comments that both clubs have made that they wouldn't have traded pick #2.

While you claim that I have "no idea if that was motivated by anything else", you fail to realise that they same holds true for people like you who think we could have got #4 without the Carey imperative.

Nowhere have I denied the facts of what actually happened - i.e. Sugar was leaving regardless, and that we received pick #4 in return. The actual facts are not in dispute.

We "could have" got 4?

We DID get 4. For Kane Johnson. That's exactly what happened.

I find you trying to disagree with the actual events that occurred to be really weird.

 

[Vader]

We "could have" got 4?

We DID get 4. For Kane Johnson. That's exactly what happened.

I find you trying to disagree with the actual events that occurred to be really weird.

Another of your reading fails? I'm not disagreeing with any actual events. Sugar wanted out. We got pick #4. These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.

If you wish to make assertions beyond that point, then you're not talking about facts any more. You're discussing your faulty recollection of events.

 

[arsene wenger1]

So is this the 2019 Rumour Discussion thread or the 2002 Rumour Discussion thread?

 

[WeedsMullet84]

It would be interesting exercise to do if not done already, but I would love to know the average age of our inaugural squad and how that compared to the teams like Eagles, Freo, Port, Suns and GWS.

Suns and GWS went about two different approaches in developing their playing list. Suns have really butchered their list development and have never played finals nor have they ever looked likely too, while the Giants have been consistently been able to play finals over the last few years.

Another interesting exercise would be the ex-Crows players in the comp v ex-Giants players in the comp and who would form the better nucleus for a flag.

Im just so peeved at the AFL in their handouts to the Suns at some stage they need to be accountable. Yes im still salty on missing out on Pick 3, who would have been either Green or possibly Anderson. If they live up to potential, thats a player that can genuinely help you win a flag.

Absolutely.

Imagine the Crows with Pick 4 asking GWS for Hately and Pick 6, compared with the Crows having Pick 3 and asking GWS for the same deal. With Pick 4 GWS might have thought it too much of a risk to include Hately if Melb were to nominate Green at Pick 3 anyway. If Melb had Pick 2 they take Rowell/Anderson as that’s where all clubs rate them.

It’s even more ludicrous that GC didn’t go for more experience with their players, or weren’t forced to by the AFL with the Picks given, when you take into account the NGA and Academy zone concessions they received which should see them bring plenty of youngsters in for next to nothing anyway...


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Thetrader15]

Do a GC, u can’t have pick 1 or2 or Luko or Rankine.
Like there was anything left


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Or a Geelong with DF...Sorry, next years first rd pick is going to Carlton for Henderson

 

[Draft Bored]

It’s even more ludicrous that GC didn’t go for more experience with their players, or weren’t forced to by the AFL with the Picks given, when you take into account the NGA and Academy zone concessions they received which should see them bring plenty of youngsters in for next to nothing anyway...

I couldn't agree more.

Not only did they not bring in experience with those 15+20 picks, they managed to completely botch the Martin trade.

I'm surprised the AFL haven't marched up there and booted everyone out.

 

[Geoffa32]

Caught up with Port supporting mate last night with a great "Sourth" within the club. He told me Ken has a clause in his contract where he gets an automatic extension if they make Finals next year. So not just coach in 2021, but also two years on top of that.

Would laugh if that is true. Particularly if they just fall into the eight.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Crow_68]

Caught up with Port supporting mate last night with a great "Sourth" within the club. He told me Ken has a clause in his contract where he gets an automatic extension if they make Finals next year. So not just coach in 2021, but also two years on top of that.

Would laugh if that is true. Particularly if they just fall into the eight.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Not sure you are allowed to call them Port..

Would be absolute gold if this is the case.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mismatched]

I couldn't agree more.

Not only did they not bring in experience with those 15+20 picks, they managed to completely botch the Martin trade.

I'm surprised the AFL haven't marched up there and booted everyone out.

Its a joke. When will the AFL learn that simply throwing draft picks at incompetent clubs doesn’t help? All it does is sell false hope in the short term and potentially ruin young players careers. If you’re giving Gold Coast picks, give them extra salary and force them to trade the picks. Or give them expanded Free Agency rights.

There’s a reason why priority picks were abolished in the first place.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Another of your reading fails? I'm not disagreeing with any actual events. Sugar wanted out. We got pick #4. These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.

If you wish to make assertions beyond that point, then you're not talking about facts any more. You're discussing your faulty recollection of events.

 

[ad victoriam]

Absolutely.

Imagine the Crows with Pick 4 asking GWS for Hately and Pick 6, compared with the Crows having Pick 3 and asking GWS for the same deal. With Pick 4 GWS might have thought it too much of a risk to include Hately if Melb were to nominate Green at Pick 3 anyway. If Melb had Pick 2 they take Rowell/Anderson as that’s where all clubs rate them.

It’s even more ludicrous that GC didn’t go for more experience with their players, or weren’t forced to by the AFL with the Picks given, when you take into account the NGA and Academy zone concessions they received which should see them bring plenty of youngsters in for next to nothing anyway...


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

GC problem is not lack of average senior players, the problem is until recently they were losing there elite players. and not replacing them like GWS Have.
Players like Hanley, Miles, Sexton, Day, Thompson, Hombsh, Nicholls, Witts, Murdoch, Horlin-Smith, Young, Burgess, Lemmens,Greenwood, Ellis, Smith, do they need to add to this bunch or go for Elite Junior Talent.

 

[1970crow]

And pick 1 in the PSD and can tell GC to take pick 90 for Luko. If we did that the AFL will shut down the PSD


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

PSD would be dead within 48 hours if we had pick 1 and had failed to agree on a deal with GC for Luko. AFL would realise they made a mistake and reinstate it the next year.

 

[Mismatched]

GC problem is not lack of average senior players, the problem is until recently they were losing there elite players. and not replacing them like GWS Have.
Players like Hanley, Miles, Sexton, Day, Thompson, Hombsh, Nicholls, Witts, Murdoch, Horlin-Smith, Young, Burgess, Lemmens,Greenwood, Ellis, Smith, do they need to add to this bunch or go for Elite Junior Talent.

No, the AFL needed to find a way to help them entice genuine A-Grade talent to the club.

Its all well and good to have elite junior talent, but if all its learning off are solid role players, whilst getting hammered week in week out, its not going to develop and its going to leave.

How do they do this? Well they need to be able to offer these players significant overs in terms of salary. Give them extra draft picks to trade or the ability to pick up any uncontracted player as a FA to help get them over the line, but they need extra salary to attract 3-4 genuine A-Graders.

Once a few A-Graders arrive, instead of leave, these young players will suddenly start signing for what they're worth, rather than GC having to pay players yet to debut massive overs.

If I were the AFL, I'd have been offering Eddie Betts and Shaun Burgoyne $500k-1M a year for 2-3 years, in addition to what GC were paying them. Sure neither are at their best, but what they'd offer in terms of culture, leadership and ability to sell the brand would have been worth it. Far more worth it than the money spent on Falou and K.Hunt.

I'd have been offering similar contracts for any A-Grade midfielder willing to do similar. Many respected scribes have said similar. GC should have been offering picks 1 and 2 for the Crouch brothers, with the AFL providing significant financial incentives. Are they worth that on the open market to any other club? No. But to the Gold Coast, IMO they are worth more than that. Substitute the Crouch brothers for a Heppel, Wines, Cunnington, Higgins, McCrae etc Get 2 or 3 A-Grade mids into that side and suddenly its a hell of a lot stronger.

GC have had bucket loads of 1st round picks and they're going to get more, allowing them to stockpile them again, instead of getting serious about bringing in established, proven talent is a recipe for disaster and there's a very good chance we're back here again in 4-5 years.

 

[Crow till I die]

PSD would be dead within 48 hours if we had pick 1 and had failed to agree on a deal with GC for Luko. AFL would realise they made a mistake and reinstate it the next year.

If that scenario happened i'd hope that the club took out a court injuction to prevent it..that would literally be burn the afl headquarters down and hunt the bastards down with pich forks territory if they went down that path

 

[GreyCrow]

If that scenario happened i'd hope that the club took out a court injuction to prevent it..that would literally be burn the afl headquarters down and hunt the bastards down with pich forks territory if they went down that path

The club was being diplomatic today, with CEO Andrew Fagan saying in a statement it “acknowledges that it is in the best interests of the AFL and our sport more broadly to ensure all clubs are healthy and sustainable, and we support the end of the PSD''

“We also understand the significant interest in our view on this issue given we were involved in a trade for a future first round selection which falls in the upcoming national draft,” Fagan said.

“We have spoken with the League on several occasions in recent times and clearly and firmly expressed our view. Whether the end of the PSD has any impact on our Club is unlikely to be known until the national draft itself.”

*Can just imagine how hard we really go

 

[Crow till I die]

The club was being diplomatic today, with CEO Andrew Fagan saying in a statement it “acknowledges that it is in the best interests of the AFL and our sport more broadly to ensure all clubs are healthy and sustainable, and we support the end of the PSD''

“We also understand the significant interest in our view on this issue given we were involved in a trade for a future first round selection which falls in the upcoming national draft,” Fagan said.

“We have spoken with the League on several occasions in recent times and clearly and firmly expressed our view. Whether the end of the PSD has any impact on our Club is unlikely to be known until the national draft itself.”

*Can just imagine how hard we really go

Yeah..i could imagine...like trying to hurt them with a wet lettuce

 

[Cockwomble]

Yeah..i could imagine...like trying to hurt them with a wet lettuce

View attachment 770632

I thought we were going to stop bashing Dmac

 

[Shaz2012]

No, the AFL needed to find a way to help them entice genuine A-Grade talent to the club.

Its all well and good to have elite junior talent, but if all its learning off are solid role players, whilst getting hammered week in week out, its not going to develop and its going to leave.

How do they do this? Well they need to be able to offer these players significant overs in terms of salary. Give them extra draft picks to trade or the ability to pick up any uncontracted player as a FA to help get them over the line, but they need extra salary to attract 3-4 genuine A-Graders.

Once a few A-Graders arrive, instead of leave, these young players will suddenly start signing for what they're worth, rather than GC having to pay players yet to debut massive overs.

If I were the AFL, I'd have been offering Eddie Betts and Shaun Burgoyne $500k-1M a year for 2-3 years, in addition to what GC were paying them. Sure neither are at their best, but what they'd offer in terms of culture, leadership and ability to sell the brand would have been worth it. Far more worth it than the money spent on Falou and K.Hunt.

I'd have been offering similar contracts for any A-Grade midfielder willing to do similar. Many respected scribes have said similar. GC should have been offering picks 1 and 2 for the Crouch brothers, with the AFL providing significant financial incentives. Are they worth that on the open market to any other club? No. But to the Gold Coast, IMO they are worth more than that. Substitute the Crouch brothers for a Heppel, Wines, Cunnington, Higgins, McCrae etc Get 2 or 3 A-Grade mids into that side and suddenly its a hell of a lot stronger.

GC have had bucket loads of 1st round picks and they're going to get more, allowing them to stockpile them again, instead of getting serious about bringing in established, proven talent is a recipe for disaster and there's a very good chance we're back here again in 4-5 years.

I don’t think the AFL micromanaging a club is ever going to work. You need something intangible to succeed. Brisbane did it and look like they are doing it again. Even GWS are doing it. Even if the Suns kept Lynch and May, I don’t think they were building up to anything. The players look like they are just showing up for the pay cheque.

Throwing draft picks or allowing them to throw more $$ at players like Greenwood and Ellis is just a waste of time. It’s ******* hard to do what Brisbane managed this season, or the western bulldogs this year and in their flag year. It can be done, but I’m not convinced the AFLs approach is getting the Suns any closer to the goal.

There has to be some kind of culture introduced. They need to stand for something. They are the only club that doesn’t seem to be a real club for mine.

We are a strong club, but it didn’t take much of a crack in our culture to see 6 or 7 years of building up to something burn down in no time. Gold Coasts culture at its best wouldn’t be as good as ours was in r23 this year.

Waste of time. Throw in the towel time.

 

[1970crow]

If they're going to all the trouble of clearing enough salary cap room to be able to match a free agent bid on Grundy, then they're going to want a lot more than the crouch pick.

We ended up doing better than that with the Dangerfield trade. We improved the first round pick position by number of spots, we got a good second-round pick and picked up some other steak knives.

what steak knives? We got shafted paying 55 or so for Dean Spud Gore.

 

[1970crow]

Lol actual proof has no place here

no proof there at all. No cup on that that table.

 

[Shaz2012]

I know I should probably know this, but I really don’t. But one of my Dads friends who I really respect is adamant that the AFL own us. They’ve all been members going to every single game for 15 years together, so they are like many of you guys. But my old man has no idea and doesn’t care.

I thought that the crows bought back our license from the SANFL and the club now owns its own licence. SMA stuff aside. So I was under the impression that we were our own master. I thought essentially the members owned the club. I thought our biggest problem now was that members couldn’t control the board and that they were essentially now in control of the club with no way for the “owners” to change anything. That seems weird and illegal even. Which is why I am wondering if it is true that the AFL ultimately owns us. Is this true? Anybody? Because it does explain Fagans response to the draft picks given this year. He should have been up in arms about it on behalf of the owners of the club. Unless the owners were the ones that did it. I know I must seem pretty clueless but the whole ownership of the crows thing is a mystery to me now. At least when the SANFL owned us I knew who to blame for all the s**t that goes wrong.

 

[Ozzie]

I know I should probably know this, but I really don’t. But one of my Dads friends who I really respect is adamant that the AFL own us. They’ve all been members going to every single game for 15 years together, so they are like many of you guys. But my old man has no idea and doesn’t care.

I thought that the crows bought back our license from the SANFL and the club now owns its own licence. SMA stuff aside. So I was under the impression that we were our own master. I thought essentially the members owned the club. I thought our biggest problem now was that members couldn’t control the board and that they were essentially now in control of the club with no way for the “owners” to change anything. That seems weird and illegal even. Which is why I am wondering if it is true that the AFL ultimately owns us. Is this true? Anybody? Because it does explain Fagans response to the draft picks given this year. He should have been up in arms about it on behalf of the owners of the club. Unless the owners were the ones that did it. I know I must seem pretty clueless but the whole ownership of the crows thing is a mystery to me now. At least when the SANFL owned us I knew who to blame for all the s**t that goes wrong.

Crows have owned the licence since 2014.

 

[Mismatched]

I don’t think the AFL micromanaging a club is ever going to work. You need something intangible to succeed. Brisbane did it and look like they are doing it again. Even GWS are doing it. Even if the Suns kept Lynch and May, I don’t think they were building up to anything. The players look like they are just showing up for the pay cheque.

Throwing draft picks or allowing them to throw more $$ at players like Greenwood and Ellis is just a waste of time. It’s ******* hard to do what Brisbane managed this season, or the western bulldogs this year and in their flag year. It can be done, but I’m not convinced the AFLs approach is getting the Suns any closer to the goal.

There has to be some kind of culture introduced. They need to stand for something. They are the only club that doesn’t seem to be a real club for mine.

We are a strong club, but it didn’t take much of a crack in our culture to see 6 or 7 years of building up to something burn down in no time. Gold Coasts culture at its best wouldn’t be as good as ours was in r23 this year.

Waste of time. Throw in the towel time.

Where did I say they should be targeting more of Greenwood or Ellis?

I specifically said they should be targeting genuine A-Graders in their prime with the extra money and a couple of older players who can help set up culture.

The Gold Coast need to be bringing good people in, not 18 year olds.

BTW anyone who thinks we should be throwing in the towel on the Gold Coast is a short sighted fool who has NFI why we went there in the first place and fails to recognise the success that is actually occurring in qld at the grass roots level.

 

[Mismatched]

Crows have owned the licence since 2014.

No, currently the AFL hold the license. I believe it’s 2028 or something that it transfers genuinely to the club, at which point I believe members should receive full voting rights to appoint the board etc like occurs at Melbourne based clubs.

 

[Shaz2012]

Crows have owned the licence since 2014.

No, currently the AFL hold the license. I believe it’s 2028 or something that it transfers genuinely to the club, at which point I believe members should receive full voting rights to appoint the board etc like occurs at Melbourne based clubs.

yeah I don’t think I’m alone in mistakenly believing that we own our license. I’ve been thinking the exact same thing Ozzie.

If what James is saying is true then it explains completely our lack of response to getting shafted with the GC picks. Fagan seems like an absolute pro and if your a CEO of an organisation I’d imagine you need to know who your masters are. That’s depressing.