Injury 2019 Saints Injuries

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#51
Why is the first reaction to Carlisle having back surgery is that the club has done something wrong?
I had a bulging disc at L4-5 that plagued me for years. Tried every type of rehab and while there was improvement, it never fully resolved. I saw a neurosurgeon early in what ended up a 3 year period. He told me surgery was a last resort only. I started to lose feeling in my feet and that's when he dived in. The surgery was a complete success and eighteen years later, I'm yet to have any further problems, not even a twinge.

There is hope for Jake. As an elite athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if he does make it back late in the year. Six week rehab and the best sports science and facilities anyone could wish for. As long as a trim of the disc is all that's required, he'll be back bigger and better than ever. It may even extend his career. Imagine if we are in the hunt for finals and a refreshed and fit Jake can be added to the mix.

In the meantime, what a developmental opportunity for Clav, Darragh, Logan and Josh. Suddenly, drafting backmen looks a decent strategy. Don't forget Fish 2.0 either (Wilkie). We'll be ok, methinks.
 

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gringo2011

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#52
Posted on Fox Footy yesterday, as you can see our medical staff have not been able to pull off any miracles and all injuries remain the same as two weeks ago.:think: Can see us going into round 1 with the same players injured & the return to playing as the same length of time. Shame on our medical staff:p
As for the team at FoxFooty, it’s good to see that they approached all AFL clubs for updates on their injured players, seriously any inferior reporter would have just cut & pasted the update from the AFL two weeks ago.:eek:

ST KILDA
Logan Austin (Shoulder) — Available
Jack Bytel (Back) — Season
Jake Carlisle (Back) — TBC
Oscar Clavarino (Ankle) — 6-8 weeks
Dan Hannebery (Hamstring) — 3-4 weeks
Max King (Knee) — 8-12 weeks
Doulton Langlands (Hamstring) — 3-6 weeks
Ben Long (Foot) — 1 week
Billy Longer (Hamstring) — 5-6 weeks
Daniel McKenzie (Heel) — Test
Lewis Pierce (concussion) — Test


Jack Steven (Mental health) — Indefinite

Longer must have had a severe hamstring tear to be out that long.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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#53
See that’s the problem with this club atm, we defend mediocrity and bad decisions, no I’m not a doctor nor did I say that I know why, I was just asking the question as to why arguably our “best player” wasn’t scheduled to get surgery earlier, since the occasion of the injury was last season.

I stand by my comment that our injury management is BS, it’s a mess.
strong contender for dumbest comment of the week ...

its back surgery not a routine oil change on the car ... there would have been a bundle of methods used to rehab the injury before surgery was even put on the table, the due dilligance of our professional medical staff would have certainy been done ...
professionals with expert knowledge made the call on when to have the surgery ... but yeah nah must be a poor decision ....
 
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#54
Longer must have had a severe hamstring tear to be out that long.
Something worse than being reported, Gringo? Shades of A. Hamill - 2 weeks? Billy was lumbering around at Moorabbin on Saturday morning with the other rehabbers. He took a set shot at goal from 15 metres out, straight in front and missed everything. Does not augur well for the season. Winx on the other hand.........
 

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#55
No one is suggesting otherwise.
But we can't give up on the season because of one player.
Time for the others to step up and close that gap. They won't be able to replace his quality but they can fulfil his role in the team.
Dead right Brut , Carlisle is a big loss but I'm pretty sure they have known for a while , due to the fact he hasn't trained with the main group for months.
Having Roberton back will fill his intercepting marking , so we just need a lock down defender to fill the position.
Joyce , Battle , Austin or Wilkie can fill the position.
Pierce is the one for me , he needs to play because what I have read he is a better ruckman than Marshall and we need a good tap ruckman to give our guys a sniff of getting the ball out of the middle.
 

sammm

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Thread starter #58
Read Stavs comment.

Any back surgery is last resort. You don't just jump in right away.

Could you imagine if we went the surgery and they realised that they could have waited?
Did the same with Bytel. Talk to most back specialists and they will tell you surgery will always be last resort.

I was in pain 2 years in my upper back before the surgeon would consider surgery.

1
This time we are all waiting again until its the last resort
 

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#59
I was in pain 2 years in my upper back before the surgeon would consider surgery.

1
This time we are all waiting again until its the last resort
Nothing worse than a crook back , as you know you can't move with out pain - and Carlisle has had the problem for a while so I really feel for the guy, just hope he can recover.
I expect we will not have him for the year so Joyce , Austin are at the age now to produce the goods.
 

Olliver

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#60
See that’s the problem with this club atm, we defend mediocrity and bad decisions, no I’m not a doctor nor did I say that I know why, I was just asking the question as to why arguably our “best player” wasn’t scheduled to get surgery earlier, since the occasion of the injury was last season.

I stand by my comment that our injury management is BS, it’s a mess.
Spinal surgery is always a last resort. There are a multitude of reasons including:
- risks associated with surgery (particularly spinal)
- relatively low rates of success (the literature as a whole suggests it is no better than conservative management anyway)
- the extended recovery post surgery
- in-depth pain science reasons which I won’t delve into here
- once surgery is done you can’t “undo” it
- you need to rehab it after in a similar way to what they have done over the last few months anyway
- plus others

The other important thing here is that Carlisle’s disc protrusion progressed since December, therefore, a greater indication for surgery. In this country, thankfully, discs are generally only operated on when the nerve compromise worsens and good conservative rehab has failed. It’s likely that Carlisle’s nerve symptoms were much less in December.

The management of Tiger Woods is considered by many in the industry to be diabolical. He had at least 4 surgeries and has only recently come good. I bet he wishes he didn’t rush off to surgery (although obviously this would have been the advice he was given at the time).

I’m curious as to which part of our injury management is BS?
 

pebblesofsand

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#61
So now we are now down to 44 players, (actually 43 if you discount Alabakis) so with Carlisle out for at least 2/3 rds of the season and Bytel out for the whole of the season do we draft replacements or not?
 

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gringo2011

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#62
Something worse than being reported, Gringo? Shades of A. Hamill - 2 weeks? Billy was lumbering around at Moorabbin on Saturday morning with the other rehabbers. He took a set shot at goal from 15 metres out, straight in front and missed everything. Does not augur well for the season. Winx on the other hand.........

5 to 6 weeks makes it a high hamstring or something beyond a basic tear.
 

Tommy Wigs

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#63
Because you don’t just go for surgery on your back unless it’s the last resort. They are talking about releasing pressure on a nerve. Not great stuff.

Secondly Carlisle won’t make or break our season. Step up Austin or Clavarino
What’s the view on all the younger backs? Joyce?
 

Tommy Wigs

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#64
Actually, while I think that Jake is just about our best player, I think having Jake and Brown down back hurt our mobility a little bit coming out of defence. Am much happier with Brown being there if Jake's not. Not that I don't rate Brown. It's just that we didn't have the mobility to run it out, meaning if teams locked down on Webster and Sav we depended on Geary and Seb running and delivering out of our backline. We know how that went. Or the big switch, which everyone wised up to pretty early on.

Anyway, a bit undersized but could be a big quicker back there this year. Maybe Marshall or Bruce will have to drop back now and then.
Some great points.

And Brown actually looks in as good nick as I can recall, even going into the latter end of his Pies career.

Carlisle is still a gun, but who knows if we can make some positives out of it.
 

Sir Skid

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#66
Something worse than being reported, Gringo? Shades of A. Hamill - 2 weeks? Billy was lumbering around at Moorabbin on Saturday morning with the other rehabbers. He took a set shot at goal from 15 metres out, straight in front and missed everything. Does not augur well for the season. Winx on the other hand.........
Jeebus that sounds encouraging.
Peirce ruck, Marshall CHB and Billy in Hamill' 2weeks role.

Come on Winks. Go you good thing!
 

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#67
What’s the view on all the younger backs? Joyce?
Joyce just going by the pictures and the first JLT game looks like he has improved out of sight and could easily hold down a position in defence.
Austin is a interesting one , last year he was Ranked 7th in Marks Per Game and after games like this
● 21 disps (14 kicks 7 hballs) and 7 marks in Rd 22 4-pt loss to Hawthorn at Marvel Stadium (18 Aug 2018)
● 21 disps (14 kicks 7 hballs) and 9 marks in Rd 12 71-pt loss to Sydney at Marvel Stadium (9 Jun 2018)
● 26 disps (13 kicks 13 hballs) and 14 marks in Rd 11 13-pt loss to West Coast at Optus Stadium (2 Jun 2018)
● 23 disps (12 kicks 11 hballs) and 8 marks in Rd 10 28-pt loss to Richmond at the MCG (26 May 2018)
shows he is no hack.
however as mentioned by many on here his defence was not that good - but I would back the guy in , any defender who can pick up over 20 touches a game and averaging 8 marks a game is very handy.
Gringo also mentioned White could play in the backline as well , as we know Clavarino is out injured and has shown good signs.
Wilkie can also be used so we have plenty of options.
However by the looks they have set up Battle to take the Carlisle spot and the guy has the class to do the job.

Our first game Brown will be missing , so I feel Joyce and Battle to fill the chb and fb positions and if Austin can show he is fit and performs this week he could also play.
Remember the Suns have P. Wright(2.03m) , B.King(2.02m) and Jack Lukosius (1.95m) running around in there forward line.
 

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#72
Yep Jonathan Marsh ..we should for Bytel
Agree - he'd be really good cover for Carlisle but we need to get a move on then.

The pre season drafting to cover injured players (the one Carlton used for Docherty) closes on the 15 March. Can't see any value in waiting till the mid season to draft a player we should have in the system now.

The question's are whether Bytel, in the eye's of the AFL, has "suffered" an injury or not. They might say it was already known when we drafted him so it doesn't count and do we actually have a rookie list spot available?

Pre-season list changes (Dec 1, 2018 to Mar 15, 2019)
  • Clubs that have a rookie list spot available can now utilise it by signing a player during this period.
  • To be eligible, players must have previously nominated for the NAB AFL National Draft or previously been on the list of an AFL club.
  • If a club suffers an injury or retirement, a list spot can be created by placing a player on an inactive list, and they can now be replaced by a rookie player.
  • Clubs must have the available salary cap for that player as per the current AFL rules
 
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#73
Agree - he'd be really good cover for Carlisle but we need to get a move on then.

The pre season drafting to cover injured players (the one Carlton used for Docherty) closes on the 15 March. Can't see any value in waiting till the mid season to draft a player we should have in the system now.
Time to launch Operation "Get Marlion Pickett". We have enough tall backs and I doubt what's on offer out there is any better than what we already have. Pickett is skilful, hard running type who would be ideal off half back or even pinch hitting in the midfield. A great mate and mentor of the Panther as well.

My queries on him is this. Given his demonstrated form and skill level, why was he overlooked in both drafts late last year? St. Trav., St. Cicatriz, Stavros? What's the gossip on him in WA and what are your assessments of him. On the surface he looks a beauty to me. I know he has a troubled background, but seems to have turned his life around. All intelligence from the WA chapter of BF gratefully accepted.
 

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#74
strong contender for dumbest comment of the week ...

its back surgery not a routine oil change on the car ... there would have been a bundle of methods used to rehab the injury before surgery was even put on the table, the due dilligance of our professional medical staff would have certainy been done ...
professionals with expert knowledge made the call on when to have the surgery ... but yeah nah must be a poor decision ....
Not a contender, clear winner for mine.
 
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